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RE: what the hell - 9/3/2009 11:16:47 AM   
Anraz

 

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Once I was perceived (=named) as an entertainment  bot so I infer ToW must be the first game made by bots for robots

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Post #: 31
RE: what the hell - 9/3/2009 5:16:32 PM   
Sgt.Fury25


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WHAT....do....you....mean....we....are....robots....that....does....not....compute.

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Post #: 32
RE: what the hell - 9/3/2009 5:22:21 PM   
bo

 

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I am truly sorry for using the phrase robot for forum users it was not fair and I stand corrected, I put all forum users on Matrix forums in one bag and I should not have done that, it stemmed from the forums on MWIF where most of the users when told year after year MWIF was just around the corner said oh gee good work [Shannon] thanks for all your hard work blah blah blah, we were told that MWIF would be done in September 2009 but guess what, no way. The robot word came from me because of this praising the good work of Shannon and Matrix, instead of writing to Matrix and complaing about the no help that the head programmer was getting by Matix, robot meaning year after year same old crap by the posters. Most of you are not in that category so I am truly sorry for my comments. I will not change my opinion of the map ww2 time of wrath because it is very poor with the graphics available in the year 2009, the attitude of I would rather have good playability and good AI over graphics is fine if thats the way you feel. But with the good programmers around and with all the tools available to them I believe in my heart and soul they could have done a lot better [one players opinion] drawing a map up. I will not offer an apology to Eric because he and others in Matrix are not helping the programmers in MWIF finishing the job in a reasonable amount of time. Sorry for talking too much about MWIF on this Wrath forum but that is what led me to the wrong word of robot, again I am sorry for my comment of robot.

Bo

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Post #: 33
RE: what the hell - 9/3/2009 6:30:43 PM   
Michael the Pole


Posts: 680
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From: Houston, Texas
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Bo, you'll find that the developers of these games are horses of a radically different color. I was a real flaming rant artist when I first climbed aboard. having had the same experience that you did added to being robbed at gunpoint by the (explatives deleted in the interests of keeping my posting privilidges) at Sony/Steam/Creative Assembly.

They changed my mind. Utilizing the old Polish proverb about keeping your friends close but your enemies closer, they invited me to join the beta test team, which has developed into a real band of brothers, and is one of the most well informed, dedicated and inventive group of gamers that I've worked with in more than 35 years of wargaming. The developers not only listen to us (), they also listen to the community on the main board ()

Anyway, the reason that the map looks like it does, is because WE decided that thats how WE wanted it to look. (You'll notice that there are TWO map choices available, but they both look like old paper map war games. Thats because most of us are old fart paper map wargamers.) The designers have also gone to a lot of trouble to make this game the most modder friendly project I've ever seen (for those of you who just HAVE to tinker with the code!) So, if you dont like the bloody map, please design your own, post it to the mod section as other people have, and the democracy that is this community will decide if you have a point or are just a shallow, console-head teeniebopper, fixated on nintendo graphics.

I'm a HUGE fanboy of these guys.

< Message edited by Michael the Pole -- 9/3/2009 6:45:37 PM >


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Post #: 34
RE: what the hell - 9/3/2009 6:36:44 PM   
PitifulGrunt


Posts: 56
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Ah, a glimpse of the bigger picture. Thank you Michael.

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Post #: 35
RE: what the hell - 9/3/2009 8:34:34 PM   
doomtrader


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Hi bo,

Would you like to throw any examples of games that are graphically comfortable for you??

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Post #: 36
RE: what the hell - 9/3/2009 9:15:23 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

Hi bo,

Would you like to throw any examples of games that are graphically comfortable for you??

Doom I am not a programmer I just want to play good war games that are not only well conceived but pleasing to the eye. I think SC by battlefront is much more pleasing to look at. Not trying to be argumentive for the moment anyway but I am sure UBI soft could knock our socks off, I have seen pictures of MWIF and the graphics are brillant. Doom if you feel in your heart and are truthful with yourself and you feel these graphics are world class then fine there is nothing more for me to say to you, it will be your opinion and that I will respect as I do everyone else who has an opinion, I think the game is well conceived the AI adequate and sequence of play very well done, I personally like the large map over SC's small map. My opinion is that these graphics are very subpar for the knowledge that is available today in graphics , I truly dont know what I am saying is wrong about the graphics being antiquated.

Bo

(in reply to doomtrader)
Post #: 37
RE: what the hell - 9/3/2009 9:21:22 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael the Pole

Bo, you'll find that the developers of these games are horses of a radically different color. I was a real flaming rant artist when I first climbed aboard. having had the same experience that you did added to being robbed at gunpoint by the (explatives deleted in the interests of keeping my posting privilidges) at Sony/Steam/Creative Assembly.

They changed my mind. Utilizing the old Polish proverb about keeping your friends close but your enemies closer, they invited me to join the beta test team, which has developed into a real band of brothers, and is one of the most well informed, dedicated and inventive group of gamers that I've worked with in more than 35 years of wargaming. The developers not only listen to us (), they also listen to the community on the main board ()

Anyway, the reason that the map looks like it does, is because WE decided that thats how WE wanted it to look. (You'll notice that there are TWO map choices available, but they both look like old paper map war games. Thats because most of us are old fart paper map wargamers.) The designers have also gone to a lot of trouble to make this game the most modder friendly project I've ever seen (for those of you who just HAVE to tinker with the code!) So, if you dont like the bloody map, please design your own, post it to the mod section as other people have, and the democracy that is this community will decide if you have a point or are just a shallow, console-head teeniebopper, fixated on nintendo graphics.

I'm a HUGE fanboy of these guys.

Good for you stand up for your convictions, I mean that, now for your comment above I am shallow [dont know how you knew that] I am 62 years old, dont have a nintendo so have no idea what your talking about in graphics but I truly do have a fixation on good graphics [sorry about that] what I have said is just an opinion right or wrong.

Bo

(in reply to Michael the Pole)
Post #: 38
RE: what the hell - 9/3/2009 9:32:45 PM   
Hard Sarge


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LOL Bo, that is not fair mate, any designer, artist, what not, is never going to be happy with what they end up with, it can always be better

Double LOL, my game, I got a new map, new plane art, and all kinds of goodies, but they are not what I wanted, or would ask for, if I have the power to ask for stuff

think about it, shortly, we going to be able to use something like Google Earth, to make game maps with, we could make the map prefect, instead of guessing and hoping

I might be jadded, I do alot of Alpha and Beta work on games, I have had game I was testing, that didn't have troops, or maps (try fighting a battle with out the troops showing ! try intercepting a bombing raid, with out having any planes on the map, or targets, LOL, the one with out troops, they ended up putting some place holders in, and the testers thought they were great, we found out later, they were just place holders, the real troops were much better !!!, they just weren't ready yet)

I find the map decent for this type of game, have you tried changing the settings for the map ?

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Post #: 39
RE: what the hell - 9/3/2009 9:36:53 PM   
PitifulGrunt


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From: Ohio, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo


... MWIF and the graphics are brillant...

Bo


You're honestly saying you think this picture (from MWIF) is an example of "brilliant graphics" and that ToW's map needs work?







Attachment (1)

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Post #: 40
RE: what the hell - 9/3/2009 11:00:39 PM   
Tomokatu


Posts: 488
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Eeepp! I saw that, and will try to forget that I did.
IMNSHO somebody has tried to cram TOO MUCH information onto the individual counters. I much prefer the ToW sidebars for the detailed stuff.

That map looks like somebody parked a vegetarian pizza on the carpet. Not impressed. Sorry to criticise your favourite example, bo, but that's not .......... (oh! add your own words)

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Post #: 41
RE: what the hell - 9/3/2009 11:43:42 PM   
Michael the Pole


Posts: 680
Joined: 10/30/2004
From: Houston, Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomokatu

Eeepp! I saw that, and will try to forget that I did.
IMNSHO somebody has tried to cram TOO MUCH information onto the individual counters. I much prefer the ToW sidebars for the detailed stuff.

That map looks like somebody parked a vegetarian pizza on the carpet. Not impressed. Sorry to criticise your favourite example, bo, but that's not .......... (oh! add your own words)

Haha -- love it! I am espescially fond of all the little square flags in every hex. They must be potential planter boxes.
Sarge, you are hereby tasked with the google map project. THAT I'd like to see!

< Message edited by Michael the Pole -- 9/3/2009 11:46:39 PM >


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Mike

A tribute to my heroes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fRU2tlE5m8

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Post #: 42
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 12:06:47 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo
I will not offer an apology to Eric because he and others in Matrix are not helping the programmers in MWIF finishing the job in a reasonable amount of time. Sorry for talking too much about MWIF on this Wrath forum but that is what led me to the wrong word of robot, again I am sorry for my comment of robot.


We're helping on MWIF as much as possible and we have been supporting it throughout the long development - none of us want to release it too early and everyone has simply been wrong with estimating the release date so far as it is a very complex project. If you want to discuss that further or vent to me regarding your frustrations there, feel free to e-mail me at erikr@matrixgames.com.

Regards,

- Erik


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(in reply to bo)
Post #: 43
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 12:39:40 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael the Pole

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomokatu

Eeepp! I saw that, and will try to forget that I did.
IMNSHO somebody has tried to cram TOO MUCH information onto the individual counters. I much prefer the ToW sidebars for the detailed stuff.

That map looks like somebody parked a vegetarian pizza on the carpet. Not impressed. Sorry to criticise your favourite example, bo, but that's not .......... (oh! add your own words)

Haha -- love it! I am espescially fond of all the little square flags in every hex. They must be potential planter boxes.
Sarge, you are hereby tasked with the google map project. THAT I'd like to see!


if I knew how, it would already be done !

but down the road, alot of the Detailed war games will be using it

I mean think about it, you want to do a game about D-Day, you can now, use the real terrian to make the map

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Post #: 44
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 12:43:47 AM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

LOL Bo, that is not fair mate, any designer, artist, what not, is never going to be happy with what they end up with, it can always be better

Double LOL, my game, I got a new map, new plane art, and all kinds of goodies, but they are not what I wanted, or would ask for, if I have the power to ask for stuff

think about it, shortly, we going to be able to use something like Google Earth, to make game maps with, we could make the map prefect, instead of guessing and hoping

I might be jadded, I do alot of Alpha and Beta work on games, I have had game I was testing, that didn't have troops, or maps (try fighting a battle with out the troops showing ! try intercepting a bombing raid, with out having any planes on the map, or targets, LOL, the one with out troops, they ended up putting some place holders in, and the testers thought they were great, we found out later, they were just place holders, the real troops were much better !!!, they just weren't ready yet)

I find the map decent for this type of game, have you tried changing the settings for the map ?

Ok I surrender, the only settings I noticed is changing color for owner ship is there others, and what do you use for map settings?

Bo

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 45
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 12:50:19 AM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PitifulGrunt


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo


... MWIF and the graphics are brillant...

Bo


You're honestly saying you think this picture (from MWIF) is an example of "brilliant graphics" and that ToW's map needs work?







Damn now that I look at it I must be smoking something, no truly you have to remember this is an exact copy of the board game map it is made to those specifications and only those, the programmers cannot change anything about the board map on the computer, it is what it is. Did I say brillant?

Bo

(in reply to PitifulGrunt)
Post #: 46
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 12:52:26 AM   
gwgardner

 

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how's this for a map?

on a bit lower scale than ToW, but what I like about it is that each hex blendsinto the next, instead of using cookie cutter graphics.

Now I LOVE the ToW map, but this one is better, from AGW.

Put a few eye-candy railroads on the ToW map, and I bet it would make a huge difference.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by gwgardner -- 9/4/2009 12:56:29 AM >


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Post #: 47
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 1:00:04 AM   
Hard Sarge


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those are basicly the ones I was asking about, it adds some more contrast to the map, makes it easier to tell what is what

the map works for me, what I think won't make it any better for you, if you don't like it, but, if you can, give the game a chance, it is a good game, you see the respounce your post got, so that should tell you something

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Post #: 48
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 1:01:22 AM   
PitifulGrunt


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What is AGW?

I googled it and found a bunch of stuff about global warming. Somehow I don't think that's what you are referring to.

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Post #: 49
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 1:34:48 AM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

how's this for a map?

on a bit lower scale than ToW, but what I like about it is that each hex blendsinto the next, instead of using cookie cutter graphics.

Now I LOVE the ToW map, but this one is better, from AGW.

Put a few eye-candy railroads on the ToW map, and I bet it would make a huge difference.





This is a nice looking map thank you for finding it, I would prefer this one to the map they have in Wrath

Bo

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Post #: 50
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 1:37:32 AM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

those are basicly the ones I was asking about, it adds some more contrast to the map, makes it easier to tell what is what

the map works for me, what I think won't make it any better for you, if you don't like it, but, if you can, give the game a chance, it is a good game, you see the respounce your post got, so that should tell you something


thank you Sarge I guess I stirred up a hornets nest huh!

Bo

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Post #: 51
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 2:19:30 AM   
Bleck


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From: Poland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo
This is a nice looking map thank you for finding it, I would prefer this one to the map they have in Wrath

Maybe someone will make such skin map. ToW is really very moddable, maybe you can ask in "Scenarios and Mods" section, of course you should provide as many screens as you can :) Units skins are also moddable and there are few of them already made.

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Post #: 52
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 2:41:11 AM   
sabre1


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PitifulGrunt,

AGW = Anglo German War, a massive wonderful detailed operational game done by Schwerpunkt. It has an odd UI, but solid historical gameplay.

There is also RGW, but the map without mods is not quite as nice, but still a solid game.

Gwgardner is the resident expert with the system.

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Post #: 53
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 3:19:24 AM   
gwgardner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PitifulGrunt

What is AGW?



Yeah, as Sabre1 said. Anglo-German War, by Schwerpunkt. http://schwerpunkt.wargamer.com/index.htm

Really a great game. Division/brigade level, as compared to ToW's corps level. As I think Bleck said, it would be kewl if some modder could make a map like that for ToW.

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Post #: 54
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 3:23:42 AM   
Magpius


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I play Schwerpunkt's AGW, and yes while I could mod ToW's map textures to look like it, you still would not get roads or rail which help to articulate the map scale, and add to the graphical complexity that I think you seek.
Road and rail graphics in ToW would only be cosmetic.
Their .bmp maps add up to almost 1GB of files.
(and I think the AGW mountain graphics look like choc covered nuts).
(-oh, and my avatar is an example of their unit graphics...)
-A


< Message edited by Agent S -- 9/4/2009 3:25:40 AM >


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Post #: 55
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 1:41:17 PM   
micheljq


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Please if you don't like the map or the game, then don't play it do not spam the thread.

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Post #: 56
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 2:46:33 PM   
Michael the Pole


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I really like the AGW map, myself. As GW and some of the other grognards will tell you, we fought out the road/railroad controversy quite a few months ago, and the conclusion that we reached was that our games scale is just one level to high for it. Essentially, at this scale, almost every hex would have a road or railroad, or both() in it.
Personally, I think that adding railroads and more important, railroad repair units, would be a nice addition to the game, but then I think that most of the UK's PP should come onto the map in convoys and have to fight their way through the subs to get to Blighty. (Always remember Omar Bradley's comment that amatuers study tactics, professionals study logistics!) Unfortunately, at this scale, railroads and roads would be, as GWsays, eye candy.
Now, I think that we can all get off Bo's back. He has abased himself sufficiently, and will hopefully give us all the benefit of the doubt the next time he makes a suggestion. I believe that it was Napoleon that told his Generals that he didn't want to hear about problems, he wanted to hear about solutions.
BTW, I LIKE having the names of the rivers on the map. My European geography isn't all that it should be.

_____________________________

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Post #: 57
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 4:42:57 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael the Pole

I really like the AGW map, myself. As GW and some of the other grognards will tell you, we fought out the road/railroad controversy quite a few months ago, and the conclusion that we reached was that our games scale is just one level to high for it. Essentially, at this scale, almost every hex would have a road or railroad, or both() in it.
Personally, I think that adding railroads and more important, railroad repair units, would be a nice addition to the game, but then I think that most of the UK's PP should come onto the map in convoys and have to fight their way through the subs to get to Blighty. (Always remember Omar Bradley's comment that amatuers study tactics, professionals study logistics!) Unfortunately, at this scale, railroads and roads would be, as GWsays, eye candy.
Now, I think that we can all get off Bo's back. He has abased himself sufficiently, and will hopefully give us all the benefit of the doubt the next time he makes a suggestion. I believe that it was Napoleon that told his Generals that he didn't want to hear about problems, he wanted to hear about solutions.
BTW, I LIKE having the names of the rivers on the map. My European geography isn't all that it should be.

Amen to that Michael and thank you and I will give a benefit of a doubt from now on because it is the right thing to do. I believe my problem is with Matrix and MWIF and I took it out on you good people in the wrong forum.



Bo

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Post #: 58
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 4:48:59 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq

Please if you don't like the map or the game, then don't play it do not spam the thread.


He is just expressing an opinion Michel which is what the forums are about I said before I like your posts and your ideas but I would never want you on my side in combat your way to mild and forgiving to Matrix [read your post on the debacle at MWIF forums for sept 1st] I believe heart and soul and common sense that if you dont complain about things and how they should be nothing will ever get done whether your opinion [ me] is right or wrong.

Bo

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Post #: 59
RE: what the hell - 9/4/2009 7:41:36 PM   
Arctic Blast


Posts: 1168
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo


quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

Hi bo,

Would you like to throw any examples of games that are graphically comfortable for you??

Doom I am not a programmer I just want to play good war games that are not only well conceived but pleasing to the eye. I think SC by battlefront is much more pleasing to look at. Not trying to be argumentive for the moment anyway but I am sure UBI soft could knock our socks off, I have seen pictures of MWIF and the graphics are brillant. Doom if you feel in your heart and are truthful with yourself and you feel these graphics are world class then fine there is nothing more for me to say to you, it will be your opinion and that I will respect as I do everyone else who has an opinion, I think the game is well conceived the AI adequate and sequence of play very well done, I personally like the large map over SC's small map. My opinion is that these graphics are very subpar for the knowledge that is available today in graphics , I truly dont know what I am saying is wrong about the graphics being antiquated.

Bo


Well, yeah...most people would bet that Ubi could produce a better graphics engine. They're about 1000 times the size of the developers of this game.

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Post #: 60
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