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HQ org chart - 8/8/2009 5:16:18 PM   
Knavey

 

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When you go to change the HQ of a unit, it breaks the HQs down into an org chart style screen.

Has anyone made a spreadsheet with this org chart and if so, could I get a copy of the US one?

Thanks,


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RE: HQ org chart - 8/8/2009 10:24:29 PM   
Barb


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I had played with this already (and somewhat took a free hand in representing various command levels or layers). Here is picture of one:




dates are for HQs factual arrival.
Green is for Ground HQs
Light Blue for Air HQs
Dark Blue for Navy HQs

Now if i could only figure out how to post rar/zip archive here.... If you are interested in whole package of allied commands, just send me an e-mail/pm.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Barb -- 8/8/2009 10:28:43 PM >


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RE: HQ org chart - 8/8/2009 10:27:46 PM   
Barb


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Dont wish to see China Command!!!




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< Message edited by Barb -- 8/8/2009 10:30:33 PM >


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RE: HQ org chart - 8/8/2009 11:16:43 PM   
Graymane


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Those are great looking org charts! Are the dates when the actual unit arrives?

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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 8:07:54 AM   
Barb


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Yup, taken from Ground Unit arrivals in information screen

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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 3:42:55 PM   
tbridges

 

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Outstanding, these will be a huge help!

Thanks!

(These are for AE, not WitP, right?)

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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 3:43:51 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Several questions.

1) Famously, USAAF 8th Air Force was in Europe. Did the command really move to the Pacific in '45???

2) Was Burma Command really reporting to ABDA???

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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 4:26:22 PM   
Kereguelen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Several questions.

1) Famously, USAAF 8th Air Force was in Europe. Did the command really move to the Pacific in '45???


Yes. It was transferred to Okinawa on 16th July 1945.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
2) Was Burma Command really reporting to ABDA???


No. But it was reporting to (British) Far East Command until 12th December 1941 (then to India Command). Far East Command changes (renames) to ABDA in the AE (historically, Far East Command was abolished on 15th January 1942 when ABDA Command opened).

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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 4:38:53 PM   
SuluSea


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Looking good!!! Thanks for taking the time to do these Barb, I've sent you a PM.

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 8/9/2009 4:41:27 PM >


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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 4:48:28 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Several questions.

1) Famously, USAAF 8th Air Force was in Europe. Did the command really move to the Pacific in '45???


Yes. It was transferred to Okinawa on 16th July 1945.


Hmm...didn't know that. That must have been a logistical nighmare. Did they just leave all their equipment in England and get new stuff?

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
2) Was Burma Command really reporting to ABDA???


No. But it was reporting to (British) Far East Command until 12th December 1941 (then to India Command). Far East Command changes (renames) to ABDA in the AE (historically, Far East Command was abolished on 15th January 1942 when ABDA Command opened).


Hmm..didn't know that either. That surprises me. There must have been a new parent unit when the DEI fell?

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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 4:59:50 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Nice charts Barb!

Picky point.

For US commands, it was the practice to use the ordinal number when describing the unit (at least in common usage) so "Eight Air Force" would probably be better "Eighth Air Force".

I honestly don't know it would appear on an official document especially with a numeral. Possibly "8 Air Force" would be right although I have seen "8th Air Force" as well.

Anyone know?

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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 5:09:28 PM   
Kumppi


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Great job! I was about to do these myself, but now I don't have to. PM send.

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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 5:15:44 PM   
dpazuk


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A big thank you!

PM sent

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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 6:26:24 PM   
Kereguelen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Several questions.

1) Famously, USAAF 8th Air Force was in Europe. Did the command really move to the Pacific in '45???


Yes. It was transferred to Okinawa on 16th July 1945.


Hmm...didn't know that. That must have been a logistical nighmare. Did they just leave all their equipment in England and get new stuff?


It was transferred without personnel, equipment and combat elements. Some personnel and combat units were assigned before VJ Day, but 8th AF did not participate in combat against Japan.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
2) Was Burma Command really reporting to ABDA???


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen
No. But it was reporting to (British) Far East Command until 12th December 1941 (then to India Command). Far East Command changes (renames) to ABDA in the AE (historically, Far East Command was abolished on 15th January 1942 when ABDA Command opened).


Hmm..didn't know that either. That surprises me. There must have been a new parent unit when the DEI fell?


No, for the British there was just India Command as Theater HQ until SEAC (or more correctly: SACSEA) was created at Delhi on 16th November 1943.

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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 6:46:08 PM   
ckammp

 

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deleted

< Message edited by ckammp -- 11/1/2009 3:05:03 AM >

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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 7:03:24 PM   
Graymane


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Thanks for sending the charts, they are great! Need to get this to a download site so he has to do less work emailing everyone

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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 7:27:48 PM   
ckammp

 

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< Message edited by ckammp -- 11/1/2009 3:06:03 AM >

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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 9:08:46 PM   
Barb


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
2) Was Burma Command really reporting to ABDA???


No. But it was reporting to (British) Far East Command until 12th December 1941 (then to India Command). Far East Command changes (renames) to ABDA in the AE (historically, Far East Command was abolished on 15th January 1942 when ABDA Command opened).


Hmm It would be interesting to know who designed this map then?
I think Wavel got ABDA together with Burma under his command.




Attachment (1)

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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 9:10:22 PM   
Barb


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Wiki:
"Following the Declaration by the United Nations on 1 January 1942, the Allied governments formally appointed Wavell. The formation of ABDACOM meant that Wavell had nominal control of a huge, but thinly-spread force, covering an area from Burma in the west, to Dutch New Guinea and the Philippines in the east. Other areas, including India and Hawaii remained officially under separate commands, and in practice General Douglas MacArthur was in complete control of Allied forces in The Philippines. At Wavell's insistence, the western half of northern Australia (see map) was added to the ABDA area. The rest of Australia was under Australian control, as was the Territory of New Guinea."

And from another source:
(Note: 92nd meridian is somewhere between Akyab and Cox Bazaar)




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Barb -- 8/9/2009 9:12:10 PM >


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RE: Allied HQ org charts - 8/9/2009 9:14:22 PM   
Barb


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
Nice charts Barb!

Picky point.

For US commands, it was the practice to use the ordinal number when describing the unit (at least in common usage) so "Eight Air Force" would probably be better "Eighth Air Force".

I honestly don't know it would appear on an official document especially with a numeral. Possibly "8 Air Force" would be right although I have seen "8th Air Force" as well.

Anyone know?


I will look at proper Air Force names. On the other hand I dont want to have names too long.


< Message edited by Barb -- 8/9/2009 9:48:49 PM >


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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 9:34:25 PM   
ckammp

 

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< Message edited by ckammp -- 11/1/2009 3:06:56 AM >

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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 9:37:16 PM   
Knavey

 

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Thank you very much for these. I was afraid after 55 looks and no posts, that it was something that no one had developed yet.



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RE: HQ org chart - 8/9/2009 10:04:17 PM   
Kereguelen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ckammp


quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
2) Was Burma Command really reporting to ABDA???


No. But it was reporting to (British) Far East Command until 12th December 1941 (then to India Command). Far East Command changes (renames) to ABDA in the AE (historically, Far East Command was abolished on 15th January 1942 when ABDA Command opened).


Hmm It would be interesting to know who designed this map then?
I think Wavel got ABDA together with Burma under his command.






There was never a separate "Burma Command". Burma Army was under the control of British Far East Command until 7 Jan 42, when it came under control of ABDA Command. On 25 Feb 42, ABDA Command was dissolved, and Burma Army came under control of British India Command. This lasted until 21 Aug 43, when the Allies created SEAC.
While Gen Wavell (Supreme Commander, ADBA) tried to control the situation in Burma, the crisis in Malaya and Java took priority; as a result his command in Burma was ineffective. Once he was in command of India, he was able to do much more.



ABDA was indeed created to be responsible for Burma, The Andaman & Nicobar Islands, Malaya, Netherlands East Indies, The Philippines and the Christmas & Cocos Islands.

Nevertheless, Burma Army had been transferred from Far East Command to India Command on 12th December 1941 and remained subordinate to India Command until it broke up in India on 20th May 1942. As far as I know, Burma Army was never formally assigned to ABDA.

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RE: Allied HQ org charts - 8/19/2009 2:51:07 AM   
Blackhorse


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quote:

I will look at proper Air Force names. On the other hand I dont want to have names too long.


For the US:

Armies and Airforces were spelled out:

Tenth Army; Thirteenth Air Force

Army Corps and Air Force Commands used roman numerals:

XIV Corps; VII Bomber Command

Army Divisions and Air Force Groups used arabic numerals:

25th Division; 35th Pursuit Group


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RE: Allied HQ org charts - 8/19/2009 3:18:32 AM   
GeorgePatton


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Wow thanks again for the HQ org charts...helps a lot LOL

I lost all my hair trying to figure out the levels


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RE: Allied HQ org charts - 8/22/2009 5:08:49 PM   
Barb


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bump.

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RE: Allied HQ org charts - 8/22/2009 5:19:26 PM   
tbridges

 

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Barb - great work, thanks again.

Now all we need is someone to create a real OOB for this game with all the combat/support units assigned and listed under their different HQs.

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RE: Allied HQ org charts - 8/22/2009 5:21:18 PM   
Barb


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You should do this yourself in game. OOBs evolved over time and when one decide to send one unit elsewhere then it was IRL those OOBs will be useless.

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RE: Allied HQ org charts - 8/22/2009 5:34:57 PM   
tbridges

 

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The point would be to challenge my planning skills, organizational abilities, and command discipline to create the OOB at the beginning of the game and then hold myself to it throughout the game. No emergency ad hoc transfers between commands. I live (or die) with what my assigned command includes or does not include.

IRL, one commander couldn't just pirate a particular unit from another command whenever he needed it just because it was handy, could he?

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RE: Allied HQ org charts - 8/22/2009 6:57:53 PM   
Blackhorse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tbridges

The point would be to challenge my planning skills, organizational abilities, and command discipline to create the OOB at the beginning of the game and then hold myself to it throughout the game. No emergency ad hoc transfers between commands. I live (or die) with what my assigned command includes or does not include.

IRL, one commander couldn't just pirate a particular unit from another command whenever he needed it just because it was handy, could he?


No. But commands above Division level weren't "fixed". Units frequently were transfered to and from Theaters, Armies and Corps.

Many US Army formations spent 1942 assigned to the South Pacific, then joined Southwest Pacific for the New Guinea and Philippine campaigns. After Guadalcanal, most of the Marines in the South Pacific transferred to the Central Pacific / Pacific Ocean Areas Command. It was not uncommon to see divisions and independent regiments and battalions reassigned to different Armies or Corps within a Theater.

The British were even worse, as they reshuffled brigades and battalions between divisions. The constantly-changing US Marine Corps OOB was hard enough for me to show in-game. How AndyMac managed to track the Brits, I'll never know.

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