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RE: HOI3 - 8/12/2009 9:01:33 PM   
sveint


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I regret buying HoI3, I naively thought it could give me a few hours of entertainment. In its current stage it is pure garbage, and I do not say that lightly.

After massive patching it might be a playable "fantasy" wargame. I'm done with Paradox games, having played many of their previous releases.

< Message edited by sveint -- 8/12/2009 9:03:47 PM >

(in reply to RyanCrierie)
Post #: 151
RE: HOI3 - 8/12/2009 10:32:12 PM   
wosung

 

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This is what I posted about HOI3 on PI forum today:

"Started [a game] as USA in 1939.
From start on Japan was in the Axis.After 2 Weeks NatChin and then ChiCom and all the other Chinese factions started to surrender to Japan. Then they went members of the Axis.There was an German annexion of Poland, Finnish winter war. And in Summer 1940 without any Campaign in the West, Germany attacked French Indochina.

US presidential dates are way off (start date + 48 months, depending of the start date of the scenario). Not unimportant at all.

Research achievements are bizarro - no matter what scenario you play.

(Political) geography is way beside WW2.


Fact is: No matter what scenario you play, even the historical setting is at least badly researched or not at all and put together in a generic way.

Without even one day of in-game action passed, the whole thing is Fantasy of Iron 3 [FOI3], which is ok if you like World of Warcraft.

PI might not have had the resources to iron out all performance issues. That's ok. But even if this aspect is neglected, there are enough aspects of FOI3 which are really sloppy.

Sure, most of it will be ironed out. But the point is: Many already ha[ve] paid the full regular price NOW to get FOI 3.

Nobody gave an ammount of money, which had to be patched afterwards, because our bucks weren't enough or outdated.

And what starts to make me angry on reflection are two other points:

1. PI made a poll about selling additional downloadable content for FOI 3 before they even published the game. While I appriciate that they made at least a poll and then were rethinking the whole issue, personally I find the whole maneuver in retrospective not very sympathetic and in fact a little bit greedy given the state of FOI 3 as it is right now.

2. A few weeks ago Johan posted in some other forums about the non-existent AI of certain recently published games. On another occasion somewere else he made some patronizing remarks about the UI of some other games. Not that his remarks weren't justified. But given the state of FOI 3 on publishing (enabled AI production while closing the production window anyone?!) now I find those remarks are ... just not cricket.

Last not least, what I really did enjoy were the developers diaries. Those truely were entertaining and presented in a symathetic way. But I enjoyed those more ... than the actual game.

Regards"

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 152
RE: HOI3 - 8/12/2009 11:18:12 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3494
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

I regret buying HoI3, I naively thought it could give me a few hours of entertainment. In its current stage it is pure garbage, and I do not say that lightly.

After massive patching it might be a playable "fantasy" wargame. I'm done with Paradox games, having played many of their previous releases.


I stopped playing it and will not play it again until at least one good patch, maybe two. The one thing I thought the game was good at was stability on my systems, then BAM! Lockup. Then there's the speed issue, horrible choppy clunkiness (my 3 PC's are fast), resume starting on its own when paused, supply, historical inaccuracies galore, on and on...

Every company releases software with bugs but I can't understand how some of these huge issues got by beta??!!

Big let down. However, I'm not mad, as I know from the past what Paradox games are like when first released. I bought it knowing this, so I wait...

EDIT: Every game I own from Paradox has eventually been fixed, so it's just the waiting game, for the game.

< Message edited by LarryP -- 8/13/2009 3:15:12 PM >

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 153
RE: HOI3 - 8/12/2009 11:41:18 PM   
RyanCrierie


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quote:

US presidential dates are way off (start date + 48 months, depending of the start date of the scenario). Not unimportant at all.


This I don't get. This is their third WW2 game. HOW could they just forget all this stuff from the last two?

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Post #: 154
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 12:16:43 AM   
Terminus


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The obviously question is "do they care?"...

BTW, have they still got every month with the same number of days?

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Post #: 155
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 1:28:26 AM   
Titanwarrior89


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I bought the game and this will probley be my last in their series. Its getting worst. HOI3 has got to have the ugliest map ive ever seen. Mexico landing in Germany! I don't think so. If I wanted fantasy I would play red alert 3.

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Post #: 156
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 1:29:49 AM   
Titanwarrior89


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You read my mind.
quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

I regret buying HoI3, I naively thought it could give me a few hours of entertainment. In its current stage it is pure garbage, and I do not say that lightly.

After massive patching it might be a playable "fantasy" wargame. I'm done with Paradox games, having played many of their previous releases.



_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 157
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 1:56:08 AM   
Greybriar


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Yesterday I received the copy of Hearts of Iron III I pre-ordered and I haven't played it much, but I still have hope for it. Particularly after what Johan posted:

"Hi guys.

We're working on a 1.2 patch including fixing reported bugfixes and improving gameplay.

The goal is to have it released in late august, but may be first week of september.

Our goals includes.

- New autocontrols for sliders and trade agreements.
- Severe performance improvement.
- New mapmode for simplified terrain. (hoi2 style)
- Day&Night indications
- Cancellation of orders
- Revised Technology Setup for all scenarios.
- Improved Invasion & Theatre AI.

& of course, fixing reported bugs."


It may take a patch or two, but I expect with the fixes and the mods to come it will be worth the money I paid for it.

_____________________________

This war is not about slavery. --Robert E. Lee

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Post #: 158
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 2:07:45 AM   
mllange

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The obviously question is "do they care?"...

BTW, have they still got every month with the same number of days?


Give me a break; like it matters. I'm certain two extra days in February would not have affected the outcome of WWII in the slightest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

I bought the game and this will probley be my last in their series. Its getting worst. HOI3 has got to have the ugliest map ive ever seen. Mexico landing in Germany! I don't think so...



I wonder if it occured to any how easy it would be to create this setup by playing as Mexico and then switching control over to the AI before capturing the screenshot. I certainly haven't seen anything like this in the games I've played so far (either before or after patches).

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Post #: 159
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 7:40:26 AM   
JudgeDredd


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I really don't mind people with the game sayign what they see - but it really is irking me to see people on here who don't have the game just regurgitating the same old stuff.

It reminds me of some CCTV footage I saw once where a guy was laid out on the deck by one punch from a HUGE bloke, and then several of his mates jumped in to stick the boot in.

Shame on you people.

Oh and Terminus - asking if a developer cares about his software is probably one of the single most ridiculous (and therefore inflammatory) posts I have seen from you. Clearly you are not a developer.

(in reply to mllange)
Post #: 160
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 8:23:01 AM   
Terminus


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My point is that Paradox is LAZY! They don't want to do their research properly, and don't want to implement it. It's been seen again and again and again. And then they have the gargantuan BALLS to pass their games off as serious.

And FWIW, I own and have played HOI, HOI2 Doomsday, EUII, EUIII, Napoleon's Ambition, Crusader Kings, Victoria and EU Rome, so I have suffered for my right to criticize this excuse for a game developer, and I will continue to do so, no matter how much some people might be "irked" by it.

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Post #: 161
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 8:57:35 AM   
doomtrader


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I don't remember now was it an interview or an article, but Johan said they have only one person for doing research.

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Post #: 162
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 9:04:21 AM   
ypsylon

 

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From my point of view.

I agree that HOI3 in current state is really bad (demo) and from what I read full version is even slower [sigh!]. Even Windows cannot chew up 3GB+ of RAM in a matter of minutes. It is really tough to find sufficent number of i7 CPUs, GTX295 VGAs and TBs of RAM to run this game smoothly. Terrible interface. Reallllly HEAVY gfx map, which is pointless in the game of this type (WIF is good example how it should be done, even if game is in development for 20 years or so ). At the moment HOI3 is a bit like playing HOI2 with early beta of EU3 interface. And windowed mode is at least 50% slower than full screen. Atrocious.

One thing I learned over the years with PI. Never buy PI game when it is released. Wait at least 3 months or 6 or until first expansion is released. At that stage it should be patched sufficently. One PI game which I bought ASAP was Victoria an Empire under the Sun. IMHO best PI game ever to this day. Unforunately waiting for patches (when internet was still rather limited medium and most of patches came via BBS/cover CDs) was really painful. 1.0 Vicky was fun & horrid at the same time. And finally after quite a long time (1.03 was first really good patch), Vicky became trully great. Now with Ricky and fan mods it is fantastic, but old engine is real downer here.

Of course HOI3 is not entirely bad. There is also one good thing: February is finally 28 days long!

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 163
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 9:51:19 AM   
RHoenig


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greybriar

Yesterday I received the copy of Hearts of Iron III I pre-ordered and I haven't played it much, but I still have hope for it. Particularly after what Johan posted:

"Hi guys.

We're working on a 1.2 patch including fixing reported bugfixes and improving gameplay.

The goal is to have it released in late august, but may be first week of september.

Our goals includes.

- New autocontrols for sliders and trade agreements.
- Severe performance improvement.
- New mapmode for simplified terrain. (hoi2 style)
- Day&Night indications
- Cancellation of orders
- Revised Technology Setup for all scenarios.
- Improved Invasion & Theatre AI.

& of course, fixing reported bugs."


It may take a patch or two, but I expect with the fixes and the mods to come it will be worth the money I paid for it.



My gripe with this is:
If they can patch all that stuff within 4 weeks after release, why not just postpone release for 4 weeks and give me a playable and enjoyable game.
And don´t tell me, all those bugs/glitches just came to light through their playing customers. If this is the case, their beta process is terribly deficient, perhaps even non existent.
Pdox is, after all, developer AND distributer, so no one is pointing a gun at their head, forcing them to RELEASE NOW!

Note: I have only played around with the demo and read their forum, as I am waiting for my preorder (yeah, I have been seriously thinking about canceling my order)


_____________________________

"Tell the King: After the battle my head is at his disposal, during the battle he may allow me to use it!
GenLt. Seydlitz to Frederik the Great after disobeying an order to attack

R. Hoenig, Germany

(in reply to Greybriar)
Post #: 164
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 10:08:12 AM   
Lützow


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Despite all the flaws I enjoy the level of immersion here. There are plenty of grand scale titles available and regarding operational warfare the PI engine is subpar to most of them, but there are no games out, which can create a similiar feeling about leading a country as HoI or Victoria.

(in reply to ypsylon)
Post #: 165
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 10:21:00 AM   
RHoenig


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Just read this on the Pdox forum and was LMAO, given that the "New and Realistic Weather System" was one of the main advertisement things.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=420925


Weather seems to change very slowly, if ever. I was getting ready to make the Danzig or war decision and I thought to myself "Self, you had best check the weather. Remember how last game it rained for the entire invasion." After patting myself on the back for being so clever, I pulled up the weather map. And wouldn't you know it, it's raining over Poland.

"Everything is on hold" I screamed at my generals. "We're gonna wait until it stops raining!" ...Anyone who has ever turned on the weather overlay and let time run knows where this is going.

It rained, snowed or stormed in Poland from September 1939 until may game crashed in 1942. The edge of the weather system did not move one province.

So I reloaded and tried again. Same result. So I started a new game. It was raining in 1936, and it was still raining in 1938.

I zoomed out. Every -single- ocean square had a cloud icon on it.

I switched all research towards building up my "Ark" practical.


_____________________________

"Tell the King: After the battle my head is at his disposal, during the battle he may allow me to use it!
GenLt. Seydlitz to Frederik the Great after disobeying an order to attack

R. Hoenig, Germany

(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 166
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 10:36:20 AM   
jackx

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RHoenig


My gripe with this is:
If they can patch all that stuff within 4 weeks after release, why not just postpone release for 4 weeks and give me a playable and enjoyable game.
[...]
Pdox is, after all, developer AND distributer, so no one is pointing a gun at their head, forcing them to RELEASE NOW!



Could be their bank accounts/budget pointing the gun, though I guess even if that is the case, with them being developer and publisher, you could argue that prior preparation and planning... could've helped alleviate such a situation to an extent. ;)



What also strikes me as odd (but still entertaining, as is the rest of this huge flaming barbecue) is the number of "I know it's not playable until after 3-6 months and a truckload of patches, but I bought it right away regardless" posts...

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all false belief
blinded by morality
there shall be ... no peace

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Post #: 167
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 12:05:56 PM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

My point is that Paradox is LAZY! They don't want to do their research properly, and don't want to implement it. It's been seen again and again and again. And then they have the gargantuan BALLS to pass their games off as serious.

And FWIW, I own and have played HOI, HOI2 Doomsday, EUII, EUIII, Napoleon's Ambition, Crusader Kings, Victoria and EU Rome, so I have suffered for my right to criticize this excuse for a game developer, and I will continue to do so, no matter how much some people might be "irked" by it.

You're trolling.

This thread is not about Paradox (at least it wasn't until you and some others made it so) it's about HoI3. If you've got any personal opinions about the game (not some regurgitated stuff from other gamers), feel free to post them. Otherwise might I suggest you start a new thread entitled "Why I hate Paradox" and see if you get away with it (my money is on a locked thread and a warning) instead of subversively posting your hate mail in this thread. You know Matrix does not like slagging of other companies on their website and your hiding it in here...do it in the open and see where it gets you.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 168
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 12:15:39 PM   
JudgeDredd


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Ok - I'll admit it - I'm really bored with the talk about Paradox - especially here. The thread was to do with HoI3 - not the ins and outs, whys and wherefors of Paradox.

So I'll leave the thread and leave it to Terminus and the like to hijack it. It started off in relatively good faith.

Any of you who have a particular beef with Paradox, do what I suggested with Termy - start a thread on it and see what it gets you. You know it's not allowed here at Matrix, but clearly the rules can be flouted and if they cannot, then you hide your posts in another thread. Start your own for your vendetta.

It's a shame this is allowed to go on here of all places.

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Post #: 169
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 1:52:54 PM   
jjax


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In some ways, this thread was always about paradox. You know, your judged by the work you do. So its hard not to talk about developers when you are talking about a particular game.

My two cents. Paradox uses a release now fix later development strategy. The bonus is that paradox gets some quick returns. but you can see the problems with this plan. They have to stop relying on mods and patches to fix problems that should not have got past the beta stage.

For the record, I said in a past post that I like a lot of paradox games, but they have to change the way they do things.


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RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 2:57:14 PM   
Monkeys Brain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Ok - I'll admit it - I'm really bored with the talk about Paradox - especially here. The thread was to do with HoI3 - not the ins and outs, whys and wherefors of Paradox.

So I'll leave the thread and leave it to Terminus and the like to hijack it. It started off in relatively good faith.

Any of you who have a particular beef with Paradox, do what I suggested with Termy - start a thread on it and see what it gets you. You know it's not allowed here at Matrix, but clearly the rules can be flouted and if they cannot, then you hide your posts in another thread. Start your own for your vendetta.

It's a shame this is allowed to go on here of all places.



I bought HoI 3 and that was best buy I've made this year... Started 1936. campaign and going to play it. Very nice game and enjoyment for me to play. As for negative comments - no comment. Off to play HoI 3 ;)

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Post #: 171
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 3:27:39 PM   
LarryP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain

I bought HoI 3 and that was best buy I've made this year... Started 1936. campaign and going to play it. Very nice game and enjoyment for me to play. As for negative comments - no comment. Off to play HoI 3 ;)


You may have the perfect computer system for this game. Have fun!

(in reply to Monkeys Brain)
Post #: 172
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 4:25:37 PM   
Hard Sarge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

I don't remember now was it an interview or an article, but Johan said they have only one person for doing research.


geee, why don't they come here every once in a while, we got enough Reseachers to sink a bunch of lazy game designers

heck, I even sent them a list of what they had listed wrong in there OOB/Tech for HOI I, they don't me don't worry about it, they know what they are doing (guess they don't, everything is still wrong that was wrong in I)

for the most part though, I think Term got it right, lazy, if it is wrong, the players will tell us, and tell us what it should be, also funny, how parts of the patch they are talking about, are mods others have already worked out and released

(yea, that is the ticket, release the game and then wait for some of the modders to get to work on it, and we can release that as a patch)

all in all, I kind of like it, not gotten into the war part yet, still trying to grow my Nation

but, greeesh

(lol, pretty bad, when I can't even follow what I wrote)

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Post #: 173
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 4:51:15 PM   
SuluSea


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Matrix took more heat on AE price /release than I see Paradox is getting in this thread. Any developer or artist worth a salt should welcome constructive criticism and even sharp complaints if they are warranted but from different sites I'm reading the same things. T's criticism has been sharp but doesn't look unfair at all.

That said I hope Paradox uses this lesson as fuel to improve the operation. Right now I'd never purchase a game from them but if they improve and release the right game I'd buy and competition is always a good thing for the consumer.

I haven't played HOI I have too much fun playing my Matrix and HPS Guadalcanal games plus waiting on.................




< Message edited by SuluSea -- 8/13/2009 5:06:49 PM >


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Post #: 174
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 5:32:30 PM   
Sarge


Posts: 2841
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I really don't mind people with the game sayign what they see - but it really is irking me to see people on here who don't have the game just regurgitating the same old stuff.

It reminds me of some CCTV footage I saw once where a guy was laid out on the deck by one punch from a HUGE bloke, and then several of his mates jumped in to stick the boot in.

Shame on you people.




In Eric’s BUG thread you had a completely difference of opinion ......That’s odd

or just more


quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I think as a niche market, the wargaming community has alot to sing for. That why when I see (sometimes senseless, irresponsible) slagging of any wargamer devs it irritates me.







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Post #: 175
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 7:30:46 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jackx


quote:

ORIGINAL: RHoenig


My gripe with this is:
If they can patch all that stuff within 4 weeks after release, why not just postpone release for 4 weeks and give me a playable and enjoyable game.
[...]
Pdox is, after all, developer AND distributer, so no one is pointing a gun at their head, forcing them to RELEASE NOW!



Could be their bank accounts/budget pointing the gun, though I guess even if that is the case, with them being developer and publisher, you could argue that prior preparation and planning... could've helped alleviate such a situation to an extent. ;)



What also strikes me as odd (but still entertaining, as is the rest of this huge flaming barbecue) is the number of "I know it's not playable until after 3-6 months and a truckload of patches, but I bought it right away regardless" posts...


Call me cynical but I'd say that your observation about attitudes and buying habits is not as odd to the marketing types as it is to you. I'll go a step further and say that the planning for a release includes the expectation that loads of people will buy it at initial release despite the bad stories.



_____________________________

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Post #: 176
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 8:16:26 PM   
Aurelian

 

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I'll more than likely buy it. When it gets to 1.05. I remember a list some years ago about how it wasn't till said patch that a PI was worth the time and money.

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Post #: 177
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 8:39:40 PM   
Hard Sarge


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the more I look at it, I wonder if they had "any" beta testers on it, 1938, and Germany is out of manpower already (and since I had almost no production, I wasn't building much to start with)

pretty good, out of manpower before the shooting even begins ?

got the Med Tank Brig, AV7's ?

now get the Heavy Tank Brig, and takes over two years to build one

really , this game looks like it was built with the idea that the modders were going to make it right later on

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Post #: 178
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 8:40:22 PM   
Hard Sarge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Matrix took more heat on AE price /release than I see Paradox is getting in this thread. Any developer or artist worth a salt should welcome constructive criticism and even sharp complaints if they are warranted but from different sites I'm reading the same things. T's criticism has been sharp but doesn't look unfair at all.

That said I hope Paradox uses this lesson as fuel to improve the operation. Right now I'd never purchase a game from them but if they improve and release the right game I'd buy and competition is always a good thing for the consumer.

I haven't played HOI I have too much fun playing my Matrix and HPS Guadalcanal games plus waiting on.................





I trying, I trying, they got to give it back to me, before I can give it back to them



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Post #: 179
RE: HOI3 - 8/13/2009 8:46:00 PM   
RyanCrierie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I really don't mind people with the game sayign what they see - but it really is irking me to see people on here who don't have the game just regurgitating the same old stuff.


JD: explain these then:







See problems?

And the best part is, the Beta testers caught these glaring bugs, notified Paradox of them. Paradox said "No, we won't fix them. The Map is set in stone." and thus, the beta testers began a map mod project BEFORE the game's release.

I love how they could misplace stalingrad by several hundred miles; and put the Port of BALTIMORE in Washington DC.


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