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RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command

 
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RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/23/2009 8:15:04 AM   
TheElf


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Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: viberpol

BUMP

Can you please describe in more details how the system of training/training command/increasing the qualities with veterans/pilot reserve/get pilot (from where?) really works in AE?
This is crucial for all JFBs.

"The world wants to know"...
It seems we have some small dissonance here...


Read my post above....

Right now the code works with a priority. When a replacement is requested, the first place it looks is for a Reserve pilot of the type requested (Bomber, Fighter, etc.). Then it looks for a pilot who has not been detailed to an operational unit yet, in other words a fully trained replacement. Finally it will take a pilot from the training command from the most senior class of students.

Pilots sent to the training command as "instructors", are considered, off sea-duty and on a tour back home. In the reserve pool they are designated as "training Command" pilots and cannot be selected for anything. They have a "due" date which notes when they will have completed their instructor duties and will then be available to go back to the front.

There are many additional cool ideas that were not able to be implemented, but the basic premise is in place. It works. In the future this feature will be expanded and improved. This was one of the last big ticket items I wanted to implement, and we just got in under the deadline. For now think of this as a way to sideline your top pilots and have them contribute to the improvement/consistency of your recruits, while preserving them from attrition. The first thin I do (within a month of the start of a game). Is begin transferring 10 top pilots to the training command to begin a healthy turnover and start reinforcing my training command.

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Post #: 31
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/23/2009 8:30:08 AM   
Micke II


Posts: 218
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From: Paris France
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I have other questions in order to have all elements to fully understand how the training system works for pilots.

1/ how is it possible to specialise the training of pilots in a specific domain: dive bombing, torpedo bombing, air carrier fighters and so on... ?
2/ How do you quantify the effect of training instructors ?
3/ What is the best: put the instructors in the general pool or in a training group ?

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 32
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/23/2009 10:05:52 AM   
CV Zuikaku

 

Posts: 442
Joined: 12/18/2008
From: Legrad, Croatia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf


quote:

ORIGINAL: viberpol

BUMP

Can you please describe in more details how the system of training/training command/increasing the qualities with veterans/pilot reserve/get pilot (from where?) really works in AE?
This is crucial for all JFBs.

"The world wants to know"...
It seems we have some small dissonance here...


Read my post above....

Right now the code works with a priority. When a replacement is requested, the first place it looks is for a Reserve pilot of the type requested (Bomber, Fighter, etc.). Then it looks for a pilot who has not been detailed to an operational unit yet, in other words a fully trained replacement. Finally it will take a pilot from the training command from the most senior class of students.

Pilots sent to the training command as "instructors", are considered, off sea-duty and on a tour back home. In the reserve pool they are designated as "training Command" pilots and cannot be selected for anything. They have a "due" date which notes when they will have completed their instructor duties and will then be available to go back to the front.

There are many additional cool ideas that were not able to be implemented, but the basic premise is in place. It works. In the future this feature will be expanded and improved. This was one of the last big ticket items I wanted to implement, and we just got in under the deadline. For now think of this as a way to sideline your top pilots and have them contribute to the improvement/consistency of your recruits, while preserving them from attrition. The first thin I do (within a month of the start of a game). Is begin transferring 10 top pilots to the training command to begin a healthy turnover and start reinforcing my training command.


Thanks... for everything

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 33
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/23/2009 11:59:28 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 13814
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf


quote:

ORIGINAL: viberpol

BUMP

Can you please describe in more details how the system of training/training command/increasing the qualities with veterans/pilot reserve/get pilot (from where?) really works in AE?
This is crucial for all JFBs.

"The world wants to know"...
It seems we have some small dissonance here...


Read my post above....

Right now the code works with a priority. When a replacement is requested, the first place it looks is for a Reserve pilot of the type requested (Bomber, Fighter, etc.). Then it looks for a pilot who has not been detailed to an operational unit yet, in other words a fully trained replacement. Finally it will take a pilot from the training command from the most senior class of students.

Pilots sent to the training command as "instructors", are considered, off sea-duty and on a tour back home. In the reserve pool they are designated as "training Command" pilots and cannot be selected for anything. They have a "due" date which notes when they will have completed their instructor duties and will then be available to go back to the front.

There are many additional cool ideas that were not able to be implemented, but the basic premise is in place. It works. In the future this feature will be expanded and improved. This was one of the last big ticket items I wanted to implement, and we just got in under the deadline. For now think of this as a way to sideline your top pilots and have them contribute to the improvement/consistency of your recruits, while preserving them from attrition. The first thin I do (within a month of the start of a game). Is begin transferring 10 top pilots to the training command to begin a healthy turnover and start reinforcing my training command.




good to know the feature of sending experienced pilots back to act as instructors works, but now another question: is it worth to do so? While the training order in WITP also "worked", I guess 95% of the WITP players thought it wouldn´t be worth it to set your squadrons to training just to reach 55 exp after 5 months.

So let´s say you´ve sent back 20 high exp pilots, will it make a considerable difference in the output of trained pilots. Or 100? 200?

_____________________________


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Post #: 34
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/23/2009 12:55:21 PM   
viberpol


Posts: 838
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From: Gizycko, Poland, EU
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Thank you, TheElf, for all your comments.This systems seems to be quite complicated, but I hope it'll all sort out when we'd be able more "do thigs" than just "imagine" how it works.

I am happy to hear the pilots really do not "poof" like YH said:
quote:


Do NOT say "yes" as your pilot will go poof and it does nothing for you.


So it means, if I undersand the system correctly... that we will be able to track the instructors in the reserve pool?
Will they be visible also in this "training group" the manual mentions?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Norm3
Can you get the pilot back from the training command? After a delay? Does/can he go back to previous unit?

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf
They have a "due" date which notes when they will have completed their instructor duties and will then be available to go back to the front.


How long is this due date/allocation?
And after it's up, they're ready to fight with no "Group" assigned and it's possible to pull them back to any daitai simply by clicking "get pilot" button. Right?

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Post #: 35
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/23/2009 1:07:29 PM   
Kull


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Please tell me I'm wrong here, but there seems to be a major enticement for "gamey behaviour". Look back at the YH screenshot in Post #11, and you'll see it takes three months of training to get a seven-point skill gain. Yet we've been told many times that "training works in AE", and one can rather quickly (2-3 months) build new pilots experience levels up from 35 to 55+, by simply using the training mission feature (i.e "on-map" training in actual airframes). That being the case, why wouldn't I just yank all my 10-12 month trainees and just train them on the map? I could probably train those 28 Exp guys up to 55 in four months instead of six. And if I do the same thing with the 7-9 month class, those 21 exp trainees can probably get to 55 in five months instead of nine.

Hopefully there's a huge malus in the code, which causes significant levels of attrition in both planes and pilots when sub-35 level guys fly airframes on the map. Otherwise, what appears to be a wonderful construct and a huge improvement over the WitP system will be abused into insignificance.

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 36
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/23/2009 1:17:36 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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I suspect you can do that if you have enough on map training sqns and are willing to expend the required supply but more pilots per training sqn would mean slower rate of gain for each pilot as they fly less training ops.

Remember they are free from supply usage while not on map and you dont lose planes to operational losses.

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Post #: 37
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/23/2009 1:24:52 PM   
SuluSea


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Pilots sent to the training command as "instructors", are considered, off sea-duty and on a tour back home. In the reserve pool they are designated as "training Command" pilots and cannot be selected for anything. They have a "due" date which notes when they will have completed their instructor duties and will then be available to go back to the front.

This sounds fantastic!!!

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Post #: 38
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/24/2009 6:41:47 AM   
byron13


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I'm sharing the frustration of the others in not quite seeing how it all fits together. I don't doubt the system works as intended. It's just that the rules don't seem to adequately describe that intent. You clearly put a lot of work into this system, and I would like to use it.

16.3 states that "some groups can be defined as 'Training Groups.' . . . These Training Groups can be loaded up with pilots from the last few months of the training roster." I gather this is where the vets go when on Training Command status. I see no description in the rules as to how this is accomplished, however. How does one take pilots from the training roster (I assume from the trainee pilot pool and not the trained pilot pool or reserve) and put them in a Training Group? Or, per 5.1.3.6, do you click on each pilot that you want to move to the Training Group, some new screen pops up, and you select Training Command (including pilots from either the trainee or trained pool)? Is it just a virtual Training Group? "Some Groups can be defined as 'Training Groups'" suggests tht you might actually desigate an on-the-map group as a Training group, bolstered by the comment that the Training Group cannot fly training missions (unnecessary verbiage if just a virtual group). Do all vets on Training Command status automatically get put into these Training Groups, or do they also have to be "loaded" into the group once in the reserve pool? What is a good ratio of vets to trainees?

Or will it just be obvious when you start playing around on the various screens - even if not explained in detail in the rules?

< Message edited by byron13 -- 7/24/2009 6:51:08 AM >

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Post #: 39
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/24/2009 2:16:24 PM   
Tomcat


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The training command looks like an exciting addition to the game that I will want to take full advantage of, but I think the manual does not adequately explain it. Given the time it takes to set up a game and properly execute each turn we could easily be hundreds of hours into a game only to find out that there was something about the training command we guessed wrong on.

Let me ask a few of the questions that have been on my mind in the hope of not having to understand training command through hundreds of hours of learning by trial and error:

1) can I take an ordinary unit, say a stateside based air unit, and turn it into a training command? If not, how do I create training units?
2) should I establish a training command for each type of air mission since the pilots seem to be trained for specific types of planes and missions? That is, a training command for level bombers, one for fighters, one for torpedo bombers, etc.
3) How do I get pilots into a specific training command? If I click on something like "get replacement pilots" then presumably I would get pilots already in the reserve pool first, followed by pilots that are trained, etc. which is not what I want. I would like to select pilots in training or who are trained or perhaps even pilots in the replacement pool that are at a low level.
4) How do I know when a pilot in a training command is sufficiently trained? Do I simply monitor the status of each pilot in a training command unit? Does the game give me an option to return a pilot to the replacement pool when he reaches a set level?
5) In the screenshot of the replacement pool on page 260 of the manual (sec. 16.3) I see a soviet pilot along with several US pilots. Can I have a training command unit train allied pilots as well as US pilots? Or, do I need seperate training commands for each nation?
6) since the algorithm for automatically fetching pilots described on p. 260 seems to bypass the training command does this mean that pilots in a training command are ignored, even if it means that replacement pilots with lower skill levels are automatically selected when a group needs a pilot? I would like to think that I can use training commands as a sort of "grad school" with the understanding that pilots from there would be selected before the game fetches pilots out of lower training classes or pools.

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 40
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/24/2009 2:34:32 PM   
pad152

 

Posts: 2871
Joined: 4/23/2000
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf


quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

I'm some what suprised the option to select a pilot when getting a pilot replacement wasn't implemented, I always throught it was odd that you can get an ace when getting a replacement for a Glen then have to settle with average pilot when filling out your carrier air groups! All the training in the world doesn't mean anything if you can't get the best pilots for your carrier air groups.


Right now there is no capability to specify a specific pilot as a replacement.


This sounds like a new rule for AE, get your carrier replacement pilots first(sorting of Air to Air rating of pilots) means the best rated pilot will always be the first replacement pilot!

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 41
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/24/2009 5:24:36 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomcat

The training command looks like an exciting addition to the game that I will want to take full advantage of, but I think the manual does not adequately explain it. Given the time it takes to set up a game and properly execute each turn we could easily be hundreds of hours into a game only to find out that there was something about the training command we guessed wrong on.


Possibly. Remember, first and foremost it is a sanctuary (think R&R) for your elite pilots. Secondarily it was thought that there should be SOME benefit to taking elite pilots of combat orders, but we don't want to skew their benefits so much as to make it a cheat or a loophole for drastically altering reality.

quote:

Let me ask a few of the questions that have been on my mind in the hope of not having to understand training command through hundreds of hours of learning by trial and error:

ok...
quote:



1) can I take an ordinary unit, say a stateside based air unit, and turn it into a training command? If not, how do I create training units?


No. The training command, as an AE Feature, is not an air unit. It is a holding pen. You can view TC pilots in the reserve pool. Their status will list them as TC pilots. You will always have the old WitP on-map training possibility, but this uses supply and subjects pilots to ops losses or even accidental combat encounters.

quote:


2) should I establish a training command for each type of air mission since the pilots seem to be trained for specific types of planes and missions? That is, a training command for level bombers, one for fighters, one for torpedo bombers, etc.


This is not necessary as the TC pilots only affect trainees at their national average. The training they are getting is the same EXP gain that they got in the old replacement feature in WitP. The ONLY difference is that these pilots are broken out BEFORE they finish training as different classes in a 12 month curriculum. I wanted to do this so the degradation of IJN and IJAAF pilots over the course of the war might be more graduated rather than the sheer cliff we had before. It also gives the player an I dea how deeply he is cutting into the training of new pilots when he fills out combat units.

Is isn't NECESSARY to add pilots to the TC as instructors. Replacements will still get their national average training, how ever the pace at which this occurs is static. It is only when the need of replacements outweighs the pace at which they are created that it is necessary to add Instructors to the pool to help accelerate the training and shore up the end product's EXP.

quote:

3) How do I get pilots into a specific training command? If I click on something like "get replacement pilots" then presumably I would get pilots already in the reserve pool first, followed by pilots that are trained, etc. which is not what I want. I would like to select pilots in training or who are trained or perhaps even pilots in the replacement pool that are at a low level.


This is not a valid question as there is no specific training command. Only the TRAINING COMMAND. Replacements benefit only to their expected National average, and specific mission training is not trainable until they reach their operation units. THis is how the Japanese System worked.

quote:

4) How do I know when a pilot in a training command is sufficiently trained? Do I simply monitor the status of each pilot in a training command unit? Does the game give me an option to return a pilot to the replacement pool when he reaches a set level?


They will be added to the replacement pilot pool as generic, named pilots. They will not be fighter pilots or bomber pilots yet, just RPs....you do not control the delivery of RPs to the Replacement pool. You only control whether they are drawn straight from their class BEFORE completion of training and sent directly to the operation unit in question.

If there are no pilots in the reserve pool of the type you are requesting(Veterans orphaned in combat or rotated to the TC and ready to reutrn), no pilots in the replacement pool (new trained replacement pilots), then your clicking of the get pilot button will pull your pilot from the most senior class of pilots STILL in training. Ie. EARLY, and likely under-trained.

quote:

5) In the screenshot of the replacement pool on page 260 of the manual (sec. 16.3) I see a soviet pilot along with several US pilots. Can I have a training command unit train allied pilots as well as US pilots? Or, do I need seperate training commands for each nation?


That is likely a function of the fact that the Allies are the Allies and the Japs are the Japs. There can be no distinction due to the nature of the code. But the pilots and the nationalities will still train to their national average, no higher.

quote:

6) since the algorithm for automatically fetching pilots described on p. 260 seems to bypass the training command does this mean that pilots in a training command are ignored, even if it means that replacement pilots with lower skill levels are automatically selected when a group needs a pilot? I would like to think that I can use training commands as a sort of "grad school" with the understanding that pilots from there would be selected before the game fetches pilots out of lower training classes or pools.


Not at this time. Instructors are instructors, not combat pilots. When they finish their "tour" as an IP they may be returned to combat units as replacements. This is a delicate balance. My recommendation is that you do not front load you TC instructors too heavily as you my induce your own shortage of fully trained pilots. Remember that initially you do not HAVE to add pilots to the TC as instructors as you have a healthy, functioning TC at game start. It is only as a preemtive measure that you might consider building an core of elite pilots as a reserve force, or a reactive measure when you have a catastrophic loss like a Midway or Marianas Turkey shoot.

Note: This feature came to fruition late in the design phase. As such it did not get a the best treatment in the manual. I will provide information at a later date. Just remember that this is a supplementary, or optional feature and is not critical to the war effort. It is chrome with an effect, but you could conceivably play the game for years ad never need or want to touch it.

< Message edited by TheElf -- 7/24/2009 5:25:29 PM >


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Post #: 42
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/24/2009 5:59:13 PM   
Tomcat


Posts: 131
Joined: 1/29/2003
From: Dallas
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Elf,
thanks for the clarification on training command. I can see that I was way off in my understanding. I think this seciton in the manual confused me:
"Some groups can be defined as “Training Groups”. Not to be confused with groups on a mission
of Training. These Training Groups can be loaded up with pilots from the last few months of
the training roster, and be assigned training missions like any other group. But they cannot fly
combat missions."

By the way, love the picture in your signature section. I could probably find a use for her....

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 43
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/24/2009 6:56:33 PM   
timtom


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From: Aarhus, Denmark
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Just to be clear, a "training group" is a type of on-map air unit, not a part of the abstracted pilot replacement system.

A training group can only fly training missions or, if active, special attack (kamikaze) missions. A training group can be heavily overloaded with pilots - max size x 5 IIRC.

WitP:AE presently doesn't model operational training units explicitly, but we might go down that path in the future. Either way modders have the option of including such units should they wish. Indeed if one wanted to, modders could model the entire training system(-s) explicitly on-map.



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Post #: 44
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/24/2009 7:08:45 PM   
Tomcat


Posts: 131
Joined: 1/29/2003
From: Dallas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: timtom

Just to be clear, a "training group" is a type of on-map air unit, not a part of the abstracted pilot replacement system.

A training group can only fly training missions or, if active, special attack (kamikaze) missions. A training group can be heavily overloaded with pilots - max size x 5 IIRC.

WitP:AE presently doesn't model operational training units explicitly, but we might go down that path in the future. Either way modders have the option of including such units should they wish. Indeed if one wanted to, modders could model the entire training system(-s) explicitly on-map.




Ok, I see that I was mixing training groups and training command in my mind. Now, given that I can define a training group, can I define these as I go, or must they be defined as part of the scenario?

I assume I place pilots in the training group by asking for replacement pilots. If not, how do I get pilots in these groups?

Once pilots are in these training groups, how do I get them out again? Or, do I have to change the training group to a combat group?

(in reply to timtom)
Post #: 45
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/24/2009 7:28:52 PM   
bradfordkay

 

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From: Olympia, WA
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Does the national average for new pilot experience change as the war goes on. It has been so long since I've powered up stock WITP, and in CHS 2.08 it has not changed at all. I'm in '44 and my USAAF pilts are averaging 45 exp as they arrive... 

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(in reply to Tomcat)
Post #: 46
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/25/2009 2:16:54 AM   
byron13


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Joined: 7/27/2001
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomcat

Ok, I see that I was mixing training groups and training command in my mind. Now, given that I can define a training group, can I define these as I go, or must they be defined as part of the scenario?



I think part of the reason is that, in the same paragraph, it says that instructors can be pulled into the group. Not seeing how this happens if the instructor is doing a tour as an instructor or R&R. Elf's earlier description suggests that, once tasked as instructors, they are pretty much untouchable until their tour is over. The only reference to "Training Groups" is in that one paragraph, so there is no explanation of how this works whatsoever.

I'm not catching on, but then I'm dense. I'll hope Elf supplements at some point in the future; I think being able to see the actual game, the UI, and what happens when you push a button will answer a lot of the questions.

(in reply to Tomcat)
Post #: 47
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/25/2009 2:39:52 AM   
Tomcat


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From: Dallas
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Byron,
I feel a little bit better after your comments. I was beginning to think that I had somehow flunked my IQ test and was afraid that somebody would inform on me to the place where I'm working on my PhD. Now I see that at least I'm in good company and maybe I'm not as dumb as I sound!

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 48
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/25/2009 3:06:30 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
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From: Edgewater, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: byron13


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomcat

Ok, I see that I was mixing training groups and training command in my mind. Now, given that I can define a training group, can I define these as I go, or must they be defined as part of the scenario?



I think part of the reason is that, in the same paragraph, it says that instructors can be pulled into the group. Not seeing how this happens if the instructor is doing a tour as an instructor or R&R. Elf's earlier description suggests that, once tasked as instructors, they are pretty much untouchable until their tour is over. The only reference to "Training Groups" is in that one paragraph, so there is no explanation of how this works whatsoever.

I'm not catching on, but then I'm dense. I'll hope Elf supplements at some point in the future; I think being able to see the actual game, the UI, and what happens when you push a button will answer a lot of the questions.




Took a gander at the Japanese air groups and the editor...

Training Groups are defined in the editor and hence are Scenario specific designated by the scenario designer. The Japanese receive several Training groups all after October of 1944.

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Post #: 49
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/25/2009 8:22:40 AM   
castor troy


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From: Austria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: timtom

Just to be clear, a "training group" is a type of on-map air unit, not a part of the abstracted pilot replacement system.

A training group can only fly training missions or, if active, special attack (kamikaze) missions. A training group can be heavily overloaded with pilots - max size x 5 IIRC.

WitP:AE presently doesn't model operational training units explicitly, but we might go down that path in the future. Either way modders have the option of including such units should they wish. Indeed if one wanted to, modders could model the entire training system(-s) explicitly on-map.





ok, a training group is an on-map air unit. That seems clear so far. But now the question: when I can set every daitai to "training" anyway, why should I dedicate a unit as a training group? Is training in a training group faster? Better? Any difference?

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Post #: 50
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/25/2009 11:18:45 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
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From: Edgewater, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: timtom

Just to be clear, a "training group" is a type of on-map air unit, not a part of the abstracted pilot replacement system.

A training group can only fly training missions or, if active, special attack (kamikaze) missions. A training group can be heavily overloaded with pilots - max size x 5 IIRC.

WitP:AE presently doesn't model operational training units explicitly, but we might go down that path in the future. Either way modders have the option of including such units should they wish. Indeed if one wanted to, modders could model the entire training system(-s) explicitly on-map.





ok, a training group is an on-map air unit. That seems clear so far. But now the question: when I can set every daitai to "training" anyway, why should I dedicate a unit as a training group? Is training in a training group faster? Better? Any difference?



You cannot set a group as a training group ...Training Groups are pre-determined by the scenario designer in the editor.


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(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 51
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/25/2009 4:24:48 PM   
byron13


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I think Castor's question was: does a Training Group, which has been pre-determined by the scenario designer in the editor, train pilots any faster or differently than setting a normal air unit's mission to "training" (instead of ASW, CAP, etc.)?

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 52
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/25/2009 5:40:25 PM   
AttuWatcher

 

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differently by not using supplies and not being subject to accidental combat encounters is how I read it.

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Post #: 53
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/25/2009 6:03:30 PM   
Sardaukar


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I think it as also mentioned that Training Command does not suffer ops losses either.

Not entirely historical, considering for example Fire In The Sky and pilot comments about training losses..."one a day in Tampa Bay" etc. But that is different debate.

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Post #: 54
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/25/2009 6:08:22 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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I am not on the air team but my tuppence worth is the Training Sqns defined on map arrive mostly post 44 for one reason only to allow them to be converted to kamikazes.

By having them on map they are available to reinforce standard air groups for these types of raids using obsolete aircraft

(in reply to AttuWatcher)
Post #: 55
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/25/2009 6:15:02 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


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Still not sure I understand the on-map Training Groups (separate from either the off-map Training Command or normal Groups conducting "training"). I assume they are subject to ops losses. As Castor Troy asked, are they better at training than setting regular units to "training" and can you get the pilots out of these groups by some means, or are they really there as part of the air OOB to represent how the Japanese ended up using these groups as kamikazis.

whoops, cross post with Andy's answer...

< Message edited by Wirraway_Ace -- 7/25/2009 7:16:32 PM >

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 56
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/25/2009 6:42:57 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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I think the latter as they all arrive 44 but talk to the air team tghey will confirm

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Post #: 57
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/26/2009 10:01:25 AM   
CV Zuikaku

 

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Now I do not understand: so do we have training squadrons (that we can load with 3X normal number of rookie pilots from TC) in which we can assign instructors and train them in some specific areas, or not? Can we assign a 27 aircraft squadron of Nates as training squadron? Load it with 80 pilots from TC with exp of 35. and then assign them maybe 2 veteran instructors to train them in air combat? And when some pilots in training reach desired levels of exp, we disband them from training squadron to named pilots pool and replace them with new fresh low exp pilots from TC ? It seems we don't really understand what is the use of training sqouadrons? To convert them to kamikazes?

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 58
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/26/2009 10:26:39 AM   
Sardaukar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku

Now I do not understand: so do we have training squadrons (that we can load with 3X normal number of rookie pilots from TC) in which we can assign instructors and train them in some specific areas, or not? Can we assign a 27 aircraft squadron of Nates as training squadron? Load it with 80 pilots from TC with exp of 35. and then assign them maybe 2 veteran instructors to train them in air combat? And when some pilots in training reach desired levels of exp, we disband them from training squadron to named pilots pool and replace them with new fresh low exp pilots from TC ? It seems we don't really understand what is the use of training sqouadrons? To convert them to kamikazes?


Maybe what The Elf said clarifies this a bit:


This is not necessary as the TC pilots only affect trainees at their national average. The training they are getting is the same EXP gain that they got in the old replacement feature in WitP. The ONLY difference is that these pilots are broken out BEFORE they finish training as different classes in a 12 month curriculum. I wanted to do this so the degradation of IJN and IJAAF pilots over the course of the war might be more graduated rather than the sheer cliff we had before. It also gives the player an I dea how deeply he is cutting into the training of new pilots when he fills out combat units.

Is isn't NECESSARY to add pilots to the TC as instructors. Replacements will still get their national average training, how ever the pace at which this occurs is static. It is only when the need of replacements outweighs the pace at which they are created that it is necessary to add Instructors to the pool to help accelerate the training and shore up the end product's EXP.


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(in reply to CV Zuikaku)
Post #: 59
RE: MANUAL Question - AIR Team - Training Command - 7/26/2009 10:32:35 AM   
byron13


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf
Note: This feature came to fruition late in the design phase. As such it did not get a the best treatment in the manual. I will provide information at a later date. Just remember that this is a supplementary, or optional feature and is not critical to the war effort. It is chrome with an effect, but you could conceivably play the game for years ad never need or want to touch it.


While I certainly want to know how both of these work, Elf has said that he'll provide more information. I think both the Training Command and Training Group concepts would only be used later in the war - or at least not in the first few months. Since neither are likely to be relevant to our AE games for quite a while, I suggest we let Elf provide a more detailed and comprehensive explanation at some point in the future rather than overloading him with a bunch of questions now. Plus, the explanation is likely to be better if it is all written at one time and in one place rather than as answers to a series of questions. I, for one, am not going to press further for an explanation right now and will trust that we'll be taken care of.

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 60
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