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THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 12:50:32 AM   
madgamer2

 

Posts: 1235
Joined: 11/24/2004
Status: offline
Of all the posters and bata testers past an present I want to thank Gary especially because of his effort to be honest,straight forward and giving us the info as he saw it. I have followed his posts with interestfrom the first time I read one till today.
So Gary you have at least 1 member in your fan club. It is your posts that have made me see something of myself that I did not want to see. I believe that a game must first and foremost be fun to play. On the other side of the ledger is how much work does it take to play.
Now we all know that the forum is filled with guys that want detail, micro management and more of it. I am beginning to think that to them there is never to much of the two stated factors. AE will I believe bring on more demand for both detail and micro management.
I think that a game can get to the point where to much of these factors will ruin the game for many such as myself. WitP is about the limit I am willing to go no matter how much I like War games of the Pacific and navel games in general. I play it because of the historical fun of it but it is work for me and I have trouble beating the AI let alone a real person. It has been posts by Gary that have shown me that I will not enjoy AE.
I asked this once before and got the usual "Oh I like all the detail and micromanagement stuff" kind of answers. How far do you want the design of such a game as WitP->AE->? to go? How much detail and micro management is enough for you? do you want to fight the war at the single man,squad,single tank, truck and plane?
I will not be moving on to the new (if there is) AE forum as an active poster but to watch and see if a theory I have might be true. The release of AE will brig on even more demand for detail and micro management and a new game system such as ..... What ever they want to call it. Each time the game is made more complex less folks will fork over the money for a game they may love but simply don't have the time,
the brain power or just the desire to get involved with the pacific war at such a detailed level.
If not for Gary I would have been one and gone through more frustration than I could have dealt with.

Now do not get me wrong because to those who can, will, and WANT to play a game with the detail of AE and greater and have what it takes....I envy you in a way. I admit I wanted to but I know I will not be able to do so. I can't play a game at the level of AE as it would take me far longer to play the game than it took to fight the war. There are those who are willing but I wonder how many there are like me still left on the forum who will admit "a man has to know his limitations"

sail on you few, you brave. you willing to go the distance. I'll be rooting for you all!

thanks Gary your a winner in my book.

Madgamer
Post #: 1
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 1:09:14 AM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2298
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline
Some of the new features in AE such as labelling tasks forces, waypoints, sub patrols and a host of other things tell me once the new tools are mastered the turn time difference will be minimal. Suit yourself though, ask 100 people what their definition of fun is and you'll more than likely get 99 different answers. AE looks like real fun to me. Best of luck in your gaming choice MG. Oh yeah, I'm a Gary fan too.

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Post #: 2
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 1:28:21 AM   
tocaff


Posts: 4778
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline
I refuse to be intimidated by the detail in AE as WITP once did to me.  I find that many of the new features will only enhance the experience and that the limitations on some things will eliminate many house rules.  I need things that make me think as this retired life can't be all that relaxing (when my wife lets me).  That being said I'm going to give it my best shot with my 2 remaining functional brain cells.

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I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
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Post #: 3
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 1:35:14 AM   
AttuWatcher

 

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they may be only 2 cells but damn if they ain't still fightin'! tocaff you are an inspiration to us all.

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Post #: 4
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 2:00:41 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6865
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I have a fan club?

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Post #: 5
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 2:06:48 AM   
Nomad

 

Posts: 4788
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

I have a fan club?


Scary isn't it?

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Post #: 6
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 2:20:35 AM   
madgamer2

 

Posts: 1235
Joined: 11/24/2004
Status: offline
I have not ruled out buying it and I hope what you say is true. It would be a great thing if that comes about. You did not answer the other question, Is it possible that there is such a thing as to much detail and micro management?
I am going on the assumption that if I am struggling to play WitP as Gary said I will be one of the folks that are due for a rude awakening. The points you mention to me fall under play aids and are good features but the game will be difficult at best. I have stated in other posts that I have a slight learning problem and do not deal well with games with a lot of micro management and detail.
WitP as I said is about as much as I can handle but I will see and pray I am wrong.

Madgamer

(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 7
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 2:29:11 AM   
madgamer2

 

Posts: 1235
Joined: 11/24/2004
Status: offline
small by number (2 at last count) but I meant what I said. I would like a PM or email from you about your thoughts on this post (as badly written as it is) and your thoughts about the play aid kind of stuff mentioned by SuluSea making the game easier to play. I feel that as a struggle to play WitP that AE would just be a waste of money as the fun/work ratio is not to my liking.
Keep posting and I will keep reading

Madgamer

(in reply to GaryChildress)
Post #: 8
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 2:31:24 AM   
madgamer2

 

Posts: 1235
Joined: 11/24/2004
Status: offline
You just want a fan club of your own. LOL

Madgamer

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Post #: 9
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 2:45:32 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6865
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer

Of all the posters and bata testers past an present I want to thank Gary especially because of his effort to be honest,straight forward and giving us the info as he saw it. I have followed his posts with interestfrom the first time I read one till today.
So Gary you have at least 1 member in your fan club. It is your posts that have made me see something of myself that I did not want to see. I believe that a game must first and foremost be fun to play. On the other side of the ledger is how much work does it take to play.
Now we all know that the forum is filled with guys that want detail, micro management and more of it. I am beginning to think that to them there is never to much of the two stated factors. AE will I believe bring on more demand for both detail and micro management.
I think that a game can get to the point where to much of these factors will ruin the game for many such as myself. WitP is about the limit I am willing to go no matter how much I like War games of the Pacific and navel games in general. I play it because of the historical fun of it but it is work for me and I have trouble beating the AI let alone a real person. It has been posts by Gary that have shown me that I will not enjoy AE.
I asked this once before and got the usual "Oh I like all the detail and micromanagement stuff" kind of answers. How far do you want the design of such a game as WitP->AE->? to go? How much detail and micro management is enough for you? do you want to fight the war at the single man,squad,single tank, truck and plane?
I will not be moving on to the new (if there is) AE forum as an active poster but to watch and see if a theory I have might be true. The release of AE will brig on even more demand for detail and micro management and a new game system such as ..... What ever they want to call it. Each time the game is made more complex less folks will fork over the money for a game they may love but simply don't have the time,
the brain power or just the desire to get involved with the pacific war at such a detailed level.
If not for Gary I would have been one and gone through more frustration than I could have dealt with.

Now do not get me wrong because to those who can, will, and WANT to play a game with the detail of AE and greater and have what it takes....I envy you in a way. I admit I wanted to but I know I will not be able to do so. I can't play a game at the level of AE as it would take me far longer to play the game than it took to fight the war. There are those who are willing but I wonder how many there are like me still left on the forum who will admit "a man has to know his limitations"

sail on you few, you brave. you willing to go the distance. I'll be rooting for you all!

thanks Gary your a winner in my book.

Madgamer


Something tells me this "fan club" business is more like a bunch of Greeks giving me a giant horse.

"Gee thanks. I'll take it right into the city with me."

_____________________________


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Post #: 10
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 2:46:12 AM   
medicff

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 9/11/2004
From: WPB, Florida
Status: offline
Madgamer everyone has their level of detail (work) vs easy playing. I think the quest for detail is from everyone wanting to actually simulate the pacific war and maybe change it. Unfortunately games have many limitations and the serious grognards often find those rules and game details that give them the advantage for understanding the game rules. Especially a complicated game such as WITP or AE. I am pretty much middle ground as I consider myself fairly smart (3 brain cells) I dont have the time to take apart the rule book or keep paper trails of info so I hope to find someone along my expertise when I play and makes a very enjoyable game and extremely forgiving of all my mistakes because I didn't know some rule or the opposition forces ahead of time. I usually count on the smart ones creating the hints and tips to help us non readers from actually reading the manual and understanding how to apply to game.

Also sounds like the AI may make a reasonable opponent for the limited time people and also more forgiving to mistakes. There are many hours of fun right there. Although not a nice when you get revenge on a human.

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Post #: 11
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 3:51:41 AM   
TOMLABEL


Posts: 5116
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Alabama - ROLL TIDE!!!!!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

I have a fan club?



Yes, Gary.... It's called DAERHT-INTA EHT. We are waiting for our leader!

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Post #: 12
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 7:24:58 AM   
JSBoomer


Posts: 267
Joined: 11/5/2004
From: Edmonton Alberta
Status: offline
Heck why not have a fan club? I do like your ship art and you are nice enough to share. I really liked the Ark Royal you sent me!

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Deas Gu Cath


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Post #: 13
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 8:10:47 AM   
bobogoboom


Posts: 3799
Joined: 2/13/2006
From: Dallas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TOMLABEL


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

I have a fan club?



Yes, Gary.... It's called DAERHT-INTA EHT. We are waiting for our leader!

heratics

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Post #: 14
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 8:43:36 AM   
Kereguelen


Posts: 1829
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer

Of all the posters and bata testers past an present I want to thank Gary especially because of his effort to be honest,straight forward and giving us the info as he saw it. I have followed his posts with interestfrom the first time I read one till today.
So Gary you have at least 1 member in your fan club. It is your posts that have made me see something of myself that I did not want to see. I believe that a game must first and foremost be fun to play. On the other side of the ledger is how much work does it take to play.
Now we all know that the forum is filled with guys that want detail, micro management and more of it. I am beginning to think that to them there is never to much of the two stated factors. AE will I believe bring on more demand for both detail and micro management.
I think that a game can get to the point where to much of these factors will ruin the game for many such as myself. WitP is about the limit I am willing to go no matter how much I like War games of the Pacific and navel games in general. I play it because of the historical fun of it but it is work for me and I have trouble beating the AI let alone a real person. It has been posts by Gary that have shown me that I will not enjoy AE.
I asked this once before and got the usual "Oh I like all the detail and micromanagement stuff" kind of answers. How far do you want the design of such a game as WitP->AE->? to go? How much detail and micro management is enough for you? do you want to fight the war at the single man,squad,single tank, truck and plane?
I will not be moving on to the new (if there is) AE forum as an active poster but to watch and see if a theory I have might be true. The release of AE will brig on even more demand for detail and micro management and a new game system such as ..... What ever they want to call it. Each time the game is made more complex less folks will fork over the money for a game they may love but simply don't have the time,
the brain power or just the desire to get involved with the pacific war at such a detailed level.
If not for Gary I would have been one and gone through more frustration than I could have dealt with.

Now do not get me wrong because to those who can, will, and WANT to play a game with the detail of AE and greater and have what it takes....I envy you in a way. I admit I wanted to but I know I will not be able to do so. I can't play a game at the level of AE as it would take me far longer to play the game than it took to fight the war. There are those who are willing but I wonder how many there are like me still left on the forum who will admit "a man has to know his limitations"

sail on you few, you brave. you willing to go the distance. I'll be rooting for you all!

thanks Gary your a winner in my book.

Madgamer


Gary made some other useful contributions to the AE project (of a different nature) which will certainly please some buyers of the AE (especially the Jap fanboys among them).

Completely forgot about it before reading this. Gary, if you read this, please drop me an email (have lost your mailing adress).


(in reply to madgamer2)
Post #: 15
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 2:10:47 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 34738
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
I think it may be wise to wait for the game's release before deciding if it is or isn't for you. Right now, only the development team has played it. After release, you'll have a lot more opinions to choose from, though I would also recommend waiting until folks have gotten over the initial learning curve and learned the new ways of doing things.

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC




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Post #: 16
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 2:13:26 PM   
TheOx

 

Posts: 276
Joined: 10/19/2005
Status: offline
Its mid-July, Erik Where are those manuals?

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Post #: 17
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 2:36:35 PM   
grraven2004


Posts: 273
Joined: 3/4/2004
From: Cuyahoga Falls OH
Status: offline
Madgamer.

I want to tell you that I love WiTP and am looking forward to AE. I do not suffer from a learning disability as much as I have a very short attention span. I constantly forget to do things in game. Add the fact that I really enjoy playing Japan makes for an interesting game at times. I can't tell you how many resources or supply sit at bases just because I forget them due to wanting to get the turn done. I can get fixated on a certain battle going on and completely forget other theatres of responsibility. I am concerned that AE will be a monster for me to conquer because of the new industry. I am however willing to try and learn. I agree with Erik that you should read what everyone is saying once the game is released and take a close assesment of your feelings and if you still think it is too much for you then kudos go to you for not wasting money buying something that you can't or won't like. If that happens and you want to play an equally challenged opponent in WiTP let me know and I would be more than happy to start up a game with ya.

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Sig changed per Erik's request

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Post #: 18
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 4:36:35 PM   
Charbroiled


Posts: 1181
Joined: 10/15/2004
From: Oregon
Status: offline
Personally, I find the micromanagement of WITP to be a lot less then some other popular games such as CIV...or how about Railroad Tychoon. Once you get a system down, the game really isn't that difficult. Sure, it can be frustrating at times when things just don't go as you planned, but what good computer game isn't?.

I expect that AE will be similar to WITP....at first a person is going to be overwhelmed with the massiveness of it, but one you build a system, it will be fairly easier to manage. It also looks like AE's interface has been revamped enough to help manage things (i.e. more sorting buttons, patrol zones, etc.) better then WITP.

p.s. Gary....sit back and feel the love. You deserve it. Along with a lot of other people that have spent the last 3 years volunteering their time to create something for no other reason then for other people to enjoy. It sounds like the light at the end of the tunnel can be seen.

< Message edited by Charbroiled -- 7/15/2009 4:41:05 PM >


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Post #: 19
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 6:24:20 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5442
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline
I don't think Gary wants to have a bunch of fans. In fact, from his comments, I would deduce he is a quite shy person, although I might be of course wrong: er, do not judge people on the interweb, that is. But I agree: he is a very kind and polite contributor. Despite he's been the target of quite many sarcastic comments: "the purdy mouth" thing and some other spicy comments...

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a nu cheeki breeki iv damke

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Post #: 20
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 6:44:37 PM   
Kwik E Mart


Posts: 2448
Joined: 7/22/2004
Status: offline
I don't know much about Gary, but he does have those classic chiseled good looks...






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 21
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 7:36:57 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
From my perspective AE can be played mechanically almost exactly the same as WitP.

However what will be different is IF you want to concern yourself with MAXIMUM efficiency there will be more micro-management opportunities.

BUT, as an example, if you are not really concerned about whether your TF will take 2 days or 2 weeks to unload, the mechanics of the game are essentially unchanged. You still click a button to tell a TF to load a unit, then select from a list of available units...except for determining the mode an LCU needs to be in to be loaded on a TF. However as a bonus (and IMO reducing complexity and micromanagement) you now have a button available to add a ship to the TF if the originally selected ships did not meet the capacity requirements for the unit to be loaded.

Then instead of having to check the progress of the TF every turn to insure that you reroute it when needed as in WitP ...you can pre determine its route with waypoints...another micromanagement reducing tool...

So on the one hand there is a LOT more options available to the player in AE that may at first seem overwhelming, but on the other hand there are a LOT more tools to manage the options.



< Message edited by treespider -- 7/15/2009 7:37:53 PM >


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Post #: 22
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 8:36:30 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4778
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline
I'm an inspiration to somebody!?!?  Oh no,  I can't stand the pressure!  Why and how could I ever inspire anyone?  

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

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Post #: 23
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 10:42:03 PM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6865
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen


quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer

Of all the posters and bata testers past an present I want to thank Gary especially because of his effort to be honest,straight forward and giving us the info as he saw it. I have followed his posts with interestfrom the first time I read one till today.
So Gary you have at least 1 member in your fan club. It is your posts that have made me see something of myself that I did not want to see. I believe that a game must first and foremost be fun to play. On the other side of the ledger is how much work does it take to play.
Now we all know that the forum is filled with guys that want detail, micro management and more of it. I am beginning to think that to them there is never to much of the two stated factors. AE will I believe bring on more demand for both detail and micro management.
I think that a game can get to the point where to much of these factors will ruin the game for many such as myself. WitP is about the limit I am willing to go no matter how much I like War games of the Pacific and navel games in general. I play it because of the historical fun of it but it is work for me and I have trouble beating the AI let alone a real person. It has been posts by Gary that have shown me that I will not enjoy AE.
I asked this once before and got the usual "Oh I like all the detail and micromanagement stuff" kind of answers. How far do you want the design of such a game as WitP->AE->? to go? How much detail and micro management is enough for you? do you want to fight the war at the single man,squad,single tank, truck and plane?
I will not be moving on to the new (if there is) AE forum as an active poster but to watch and see if a theory I have might be true. The release of AE will brig on even more demand for detail and micro management and a new game system such as ..... What ever they want to call it. Each time the game is made more complex less folks will fork over the money for a game they may love but simply don't have the time,
the brain power or just the desire to get involved with the pacific war at such a detailed level.
If not for Gary I would have been one and gone through more frustration than I could have dealt with.

Now do not get me wrong because to those who can, will, and WANT to play a game with the detail of AE and greater and have what it takes....I envy you in a way. I admit I wanted to but I know I will not be able to do so. I can't play a game at the level of AE as it would take me far longer to play the game than it took to fight the war. There are those who are willing but I wonder how many there are like me still left on the forum who will admit "a man has to know his limitations"

sail on you few, you brave. you willing to go the distance. I'll be rooting for you all!

thanks Gary your a winner in my book.

Madgamer


Gary made some other useful contributions to the AE project (of a different nature) which will certainly please some buyers of the AE (especially the Jap fanboys among them).

Completely forgot about it before reading this. Gary, if you read this, please drop me an email (have lost your mailing adress).




Thanks Kereguelen, I sent my mailing address to you via Matrix forum e-mail. Let me know if you don't get it.

_____________________________


(in reply to Kereguelen)
Post #: 24
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 10:52:08 PM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6865
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I think it may be wise to wait for the game's release before deciding if it is or isn't for you. Right now, only the development team has played it. After release, you'll have a lot more opinions to choose from, though I would also recommend waiting until folks have gotten over the initial learning curve and learned the new ways of doing things.


Sorry Erik. I think the post that Madgamer is referring to is the one where I was defending Matrix's decision to require WITP before diving into AE. I was trying to say that from my short lived experience of two months as a Beta tester with AE I thought it would not be something that a newbie would want to dive into without having played WITP. thinking back I don't think I conveyed the message very well and probably shouldn't have written what I did. Anyway I'm just going to keep my mouth shut from now on.

_____________________________


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Post #: 25
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 11:35:05 PM   
RevRick


Posts: 2580
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Thomasville, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kwik E Mart

I don't know much about Gary, but he does have those classic chiseled good looks...







Actually, he looks a lot like a guy I knew in the Navy. Steaminest SOB I ever knew. Shaved his head and grew a beard, so we called him Fuzzy!

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Post #: 26
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 11:48:29 PM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6865
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kwik E Mart

I don't know much about Gary, but he does have those classic chiseled good looks...







Actually, he looks a lot like a guy I knew in the Navy. Steaminest SOB I ever knew. Shaved his head and grew a beard, so we called him Fuzzy!


What does steaminest mean?

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Post #: 27
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/15/2009 11:57:06 PM   
AttuWatcher

 

Posts: 489
Joined: 6/25/2009
From: Hex 181, 36
Status: offline
too late! already have plans to start your fan club but can we make it a glee club instead? how bout a vote?
quote:

ORIGINAL: tocaff

I'm an inspiration to somebody!?!?  Oh no,  I can't stand the pressure!  Why and how could I ever inspire anyone?  


(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 28
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/16/2009 12:10:29 AM   
Kwik E Mart


Posts: 2448
Joined: 7/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kwik E Mart

I don't know much about Gary, but he does have those classic chiseled good looks...







Actually, he looks a lot like a guy I knew in the Navy. Steaminest SOB I ever knew. Shaved his head and grew a beard, so we called him Fuzzy!


You mean this guy, Reverend?







Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Kirk Lazarus: I know who I am. I'm the dude playin' the dude, disguised as another dude!
Ron Swanson: Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.


(in reply to RevRick)
Post #: 29
RE: THe Gary Childress Fan Club - 7/16/2009 1:01:33 AM   
RevRick


Posts: 2580
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Thomasville, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress


quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kwik E Mart

I don't know much about Gary, but he does have those classic chiseled good looks...







Actually, he looks a lot like a guy I knew in the Navy. Steaminest SOB I ever knew. Shaved his head and grew a beard, so we called him Fuzzy!


What does steaminest mean?


That ain't you, Fuzzy?!?!?

We used to call going on liberty "going steaming" or "goin' steamin'" since we were usually in a big hurry to get on the beach. Now, Fuzzy was a really 'steamer.' Which meant that when he went ashore, things happened.. Nothing too dangerous, mind you, but interesting, and often involved imbibing copious amounts of adult beverages (sometimes of the local variety, such as ouzo), trying to garner a lot of attention from some damsels present where we usually spent a lot of time on the beach, and extricating ourselves (sometimes physically, with great exuberance, and numerous lumps, bruises, cuts and scratches) from confrontations with boyfriends, police, shore patrol, jarheads, wing wipers, mad locals, and anyone else who copped an attitude with us. Get back on the ship at 0400, reveille at 0600, and liberty at 1630 - and he was always ready to go again. That's 'steaminest'.

_____________________________

"Action springs not from thought, but from a readiness for responsibility.” ― Dietrich Bonhoeffer

(in reply to GaryChildress)
Post #: 30
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