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RE: What A Great Game - 7/13/2009 2:38:22 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

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That is one potentially huge advantage of AE over WitP for those that play 1 player games. A society of which I am NOT nor never will be a member. With the AI scripts, people can come up with new ones and Im sure there will be a site devoted to them so that when you have gotten bored with 1, you can try another.

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Post #: 31
RE: What A Great Game - 7/13/2009 3:29:28 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 1868
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89

There has been a lot of noise on this Forum lately that quite frankly is getting under my skin. I would like to make a few points

1. First it has been said that WiTP is a "broken game" and that AE is necessary just to fix it. Ergo some think the pricing schedule is unfair because Matrix is just making people pay to have a functional WiTP. That is untrue; WiTP is not a broken game. It is without a doubt the best computer game I have ever played. Besides being incrdibly engaging, it is also very stable. I have experienced few or any crashes with this game and those that I did experience were my fault not the games (alt-Tabbing messes up most games). Look at the AAR Forums and you can see hundreds of players who have devoted thousands of hours of game time to WiTP. If it was truly broken, do you think that would be true? Yes, there are some problems but they are not so horrible so as to declare the game broken.

2. AE was started and developed by WiTP players for WiTP players who loved the game but wanted to see some of the issues with the original addressed. Incredibly Matrix Games, was responsive to this group and now we are on the verge of having AE. First, kudos to Matrix for allowing this project to go forward. Truth is some of the major issues with WiTP could have been fixed with a patch and we would still have the game we had before. Instead, Matrix let Henderson Field Games go hog wild and now we will have a game that not only fixes issues like the leader bug and pilot pool exhaustion but also will add layers of depth and realism that are making most of us drool at the possibilities. Two points here: first AE was always aimed at people currently playing WiTP and second I think you would have a hard time finding any company (not just a game company) who is as responsive to their customers as Matrix

3. For those of you trying to make the point that the WiTP/AE bundle is too costly either for you or for you to recruit your friends to play, the game is probably not for you or them. Any serious Gronard with any interest in the PTO probably bought WITP years ago. My point being that this is not a casual war game. It is intense and very difficult to learn and play. If you or your friends need to be "talked into" buying either game, then it is probably not the game for you. You/they will probably be turned off by the complexity and give up on the game. I do not mean this to be a put down. I am just saying these games were designed for a very specific but small audience. There are plenty of PTO games out there that are less complex and more games than simulations. There are only a few of us who truly enjoy this type of hard core game/simulation.

4. Lastly on the economics side. As a small business owner I understand what it means to try to remain viable in this economy. Matrix is not some huge development studio like EA Games. It is a small niche market company. y default their games are going to cost a lot more than those aimed at a broader market. I am sure that the brain trust at Matrix spent considerable time trying to decide the pricing. If you feel you are being cheated, that is your right. I on the other hand would never be so inclined to tell some one else how to run their business. Consider this: if one of my clients walked into my office and stood in the lobby talking to my other customers about how bad my prices were, I would call the cops and have them removed. Matrix is letting you go on and on without any effort to stop you. Also, poor Erik is actually respectful enough to actually try to address your concerns. Try that at any other business and I think the manager would not come out and talk to you nicely but instead have you forcefully removed. More Kudos to Matrix


1.for New comers to ww2 is not broken,but to I it was unplayable!
The rest i agree mostly.

Tiger!

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Post #: 32
RE: What A Great Game - 7/13/2009 5:16:28 AM   
Flying Tiger

 

Posts: 493
Joined: 3/11/2008
From: ummmm... i HATE that question!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89

There has been a lot of noise on this Forum lately that quite frankly is getting under my skin. I would like to make a few points

1. First it has been said that WiTP is a "broken game" and that AE is necessary just to fix it. Ergo some think the pricing schedule is unfair because Matrix is just making people pay to have a functional WiTP. That is untrue; WiTP is not a broken game. It is without a doubt the best computer game I have ever played. Besides being incrdibly engaging, it is also very stable. I have experienced few or any crashes with this game and those that I did experience were my fault not the games (alt-Tabbing messes up most games). Look at the AAR Forums and you can see hundreds of players who have devoted thousands of hours of game time to WiTP. If it was truly broken, do you think that would be true? Yes, there are some problems but they are not so horrible so as to declare the game broken.

2. AE was started and developed by WiTP players for WiTP players who loved the game but wanted to see some of the issues with the original addressed. Incredibly Matrix Games, was responsive to this group and now we are on the verge of having AE. First, kudos to Matrix for allowing this project to go forward. Truth is some of the major issues with WiTP could have been fixed with a patch and we would still have the game we had before. Instead, Matrix let Henderson Field Games go hog wild and now we will have a game that not only fixes issues like the leader bug and pilot pool exhaustion but also will add layers of depth and realism that are making most of us drool at the possibilities. Two points here: first AE was always aimed at people currently playing WiTP and second I think you would have a hard time finding any company (not just a game company) who is as responsive to their customers as Matrix

3. For those of you trying to make the point that the WiTP/AE bundle is too costly either for you or for you to recruit your friends to play, the game is probably not for you or them. Any serious Gronard with any interest in the PTO probably bought WITP years ago. My point being that this is not a casual war game. It is intense and very difficult to learn and play. If you or your friends need to be "talked into" buying either game, then it is probably not the game for you. You/they will probably be turned off by the complexity and give up on the game. I do not mean this to be a put down. I am just saying these games were designed for a very specific but small audience. There are plenty of PTO games out there that are less complex and more games than simulations. There are only a few of us who truly enjoy this type of hard core game/simulation.

4. Lastly on the economics side. As a small business owner I understand what it means to try to remain viable in this economy. Matrix is not some huge development studio like EA Games. It is a small niche market company. y default their games are going to cost a lot more than those aimed at a broader market. I am sure that the brain trust at Matrix spent considerable time trying to decide the pricing. If you feel you are being cheated, that is your right. I on the other hand would never be so inclined to tell some one else how to run their business. Consider this: if one of my clients walked into my office and stood in the lobby talking to my other customers about how bad my prices were, I would call the cops and have them removed. Matrix is letting you go on and on without any effort to stop you. Also, poor Erik is actually respectful enough to actually try to address your concerns. Try that at any other business and I think the manager would not come out and talk to you nicely but instead have you forcefully removed. More Kudos to Matrix



Thanks for taking the time to post this Vettim. After all the shrapnel flying from the pricing issue it was nice to find a positive thread. Sadly our dear friend charles had to stick his nose in and spread his poison, so the thread was almost hijacked into becoming ANOTHER pricing thread, but somehow i think we got back on track.

Erik, if you return to this thread, read this bit:

MOST of us really enjoy WitP (despite its faults). MOST of us are extremely grateful to Matrix for not only supporting an ageing game, but for going one step further and providing what looks like being a whole new gaming experience. MOST of us would like to shake your hand and say "thanks mate". And MOST of us would like to tell the whining minority to..... well, maybe i'll leave it right there.

Thanks for the many enjoyable hours we have all spent on what is truly a great game.


(in reply to vettim89)
Post #: 33
RE: What A Great Game - 7/13/2009 5:23:12 AM   
aprezto


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I love that I can use the wife's 'price per wear' arguement justifying the cost of the new pair of manatee skin boots and tiger fur jacket, with WitP and beat her hands down.
Of course, she doesn't think the arguement is valid because the low price per use is indicative of the time I have wasted with 'that bloody game'.
No one else here seems to have raised the friendships you strike up while playing a game that can last years. I have had the pleasure of butting heads with some fine gentlemen that I am very unlikely to ever meet in person. Yet I have been privvy to their highs and lows, been granted knowledge of information that only close friends would be, and been able to divulge stuff that I'd have thought outside my comfort zone, before this game.
So matrix may be making games for grognards, but compaired to the type of people you tend to find in other multiplay arenas, the ones who gravitate to this and other games matrix make, seem to be fine folk. Probably an unplanned for, but welcome outcome of their productions.
If it costs me an extra wheelbarrow full of New Zealand dollars, well then so be it.

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Post #: 34
RE: What A Great Game - 7/13/2009 5:39:02 AM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4091
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
I will simply buy it, not tell, and enjoy.  When she asks, I will tell her it is a new game, and tell her I have had it for a while, and have been enjoying ever since. 

Then slowly, over the next few months, the cc bill will begin to rise with entries such as.... Target $134.55, Kohls $124.99, JC Penny's $ 165.98, Von Maur $365.49 ..... and so on.   

My investment of well under $100 will laugh at her attempt to tell me that was "too much to spend on your lil' hobby". 

Hell, I've been paying for her hobby since I met her..... 

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Post #: 35
RE: What A Great Game - 7/13/2009 6:46:03 AM   
Buck Beach

 

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From: Upland,CA,USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aprezto

I love that I can use the wife's 'price per wear' arguement justifying the cost of the new pair of manatee skin boots and tiger fur jacket, with WitP and beat her hands down.
Of course, she doesn't think the arguement is valid because the low price per use is indicative of the time I have wasted with 'that bloody game'.
No one else here seems to have raised the friendships you strike up while playing a game that can last years. I have had the pleasure of butting heads with some fine gentlemen that I am very unlikely to ever meet in person. Yet I have been privvy to their highs and lows, been granted knowledge of information that only close friends would be, and been able to divulge stuff that I'd have thought outside my comfort zone, before this game.
So matrix may be making games for grognards, but compaired to the type of people you tend to find in other multiplay arenas, the ones who gravitate to this and other games matrix make, seem to be fine folk. Probably an unplanned for, but welcome outcome of their productions.
If it costs me an extra wheelbarrow full of New Zealand dollars, well then so be it.



I have had the crap kicked out of me in this recession. Now I am living off of SSI and savings and going in tho hole about $500 per month. I have dropped high speed INTERNET and cable and cut back in many other ways, including living in a trailer park trash apartment. Momma however is complexly obvious to the situation no mater how I try to explain it to her. She continues to take her trips to Mexico to spend time with her family buy Avon and she definitely gets all the perks of all the holidays (fool that I am). Me however has forgone birthday, Christmas and Father's day but this dog will have its day.

I will go over to my friends the day it is released and use his cable high speed to down load AE and feel no guilt for having done so.


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Post #: 36
RE: What A Great Game - 7/13/2009 3:07:26 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
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From: Boise, ID - USA
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Geez, your gone over the weekend and come back to find everyone freaking out

Thanks for starting this thread Vettim89 as I agree 100% with everything you said. When AE costs less than a single night in a hotel, or 1 1/2 fuel ups at the pump, or a nice dinner, I fail to see the problem with its price. The value for what you are getting outweighs any reasonable price they ask. And that price is very, very reasonable.

Once again, kudos to Matrix and congrats to Henderson Field for getting their labor of love to the finish line!

Chad

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Post #: 37
RE: What A Great Game - 7/13/2009 7:49:45 PM   
Barb


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I am strongly waiting to plung into AE as soon as it is out. Even if it had cost set at 150€ - I will most probably have some deep thoughts and buy it anyway! 

Thanks to Matrix Games and Henderson Field Designs.


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Post #: 38
RE: What A Great Game - 7/13/2009 9:21:22 PM   
John Lansford

 

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Compared to my hobbies (woodworking, history and computer gaming), my wife outspends me on her interests by about 5:1.  The last computer game I purchased was Fallout 3 and that was nearly a year ago, while she's purchased a sewing machine, updated her computer, picked up some reference books (on sale but still), bought a toaster for her English muffins, and some things for her 75 gallon turtle tank.  She is already 100% on board me buying this game and if it were $100 I doubt she'd even blink.

She knows I don't complain about her purchases, she'd better not gripe about mine...

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Post #: 39
RE: What A Great Game - 7/13/2009 9:25:21 PM   
viberpol


Posts: 837
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Gizycko, Poland, EU
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford
for her 75 gallon turtle tank. 


Erm... (a no native speaker question).... A "turtle tank"? What is it?

Will this equipment be included in AE?

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Post #: 40
RE: What A Great Game - 7/13/2009 9:40:28 PM   
jeffk3510


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From: Kansas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: viberpol

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford
for her 75 gallon turtle tank. 


Erm... (a no native speaker question).... A "turtle tank"? What is it?

Will this equipment be included in AE?


Haha! I'm assuming they have live turtles as pets...as for AE... doubt it

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Post #: 41
RE: What A Great Game - 7/13/2009 9:44:33 PM   
viberpol


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Well, Carthaginians or Persians might have used elephants... maybe somewhere Down Under they used combat turtles... who knows?



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Post #: 42
RE: What A Great Game - 7/13/2009 10:26:12 PM   
viberpol


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From: Gizycko, Poland, EU
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The turtle - first combat submarine 




http://naval-history.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_turtle_first_combat_submarine




< Message edited by viberpol -- 7/13/2009 10:27:55 PM >


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Post #: 43
RE: What A Great Game - 7/13/2009 10:43:30 PM   
Charbroiled


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I've spent more money on "Ladies of the night" (when I was a lot younger) then I will be paying for AE.....and AE will still be there the next day to play with.

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Post #: 44
RE: What A Great Game - 7/13/2009 11:17:20 PM   
Kwik E Mart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: viberpol

The turtle - first combat submarine 




http://naval-history.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_turtle_first_combat_submarine





I'm not sure I like the position of this fellow's hands...

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Post #: 45
RE: What A Great Game - 7/13/2009 11:18:04 PM   
jjax


Posts: 284
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That made me laugh!

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Post #: 46
RE: What A Great Game - 7/14/2009 5:24:11 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8647
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From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charbroiled

I've spent more money on "Ladies of the night" (when I was a lot younger) then I will be paying for AE.....and AE will still be there the next day to play with.


Yeah, but those "ladies of the night" might have left you with some lasting memories as well...

"I've got a souvenir of London,
Got to hide it form me mum.
Can't declare it at the customs,
But I've got to take it home."

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 47
RE: What A Great Game - 7/14/2009 4:35:13 PM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1609
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From: Upstate New York
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeastieDog

I have spent untold hours enjoying WitP. After reading the Guadalcanal AAR, I downloaded N's Guadalcanal MOD and spent most of this morning playing the AI. This has been great value for my entertainment dollar. Thanks, Matrix. I'm looking forward to AE!


What's this about an AE scenario that can be downloaded and played?! I quickly scanned through this forum for some link, but couldn't find anything. Am I misunderstanding BeastieDog's post, or has Matrix released some version of a demo?

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Post #: 48
RE: What A Great Game - 7/14/2009 4:41:50 PM   
DivePac88


Posts: 3123
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From: Somewhere in the South Pacific.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg


quote:

ORIGINAL: BeastieDog

I have spent untold hours enjoying WitP. After reading the Guadalcanal AAR, I downloaded N's Guadalcanal MOD and spent most of this morning playing the AI. This has been great value for my entertainment dollar. Thanks, Matrix. I'm looking forward to AE!


What's this about an AE scenario that can be downloaded and played?! I quickly scanned through this forum for some link, but couldn't find anything. Am I misunderstanding BeastieDog's post, or has Matrix released some version of a demo?


No he means he downloaded Nikademus’s Guadalcanal Mod for WitP, and not for AE.

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Post #: 49
RE: What A Great Game - 7/14/2009 4:52:45 PM   
John Lansford

 

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The "turtle tank" is just that; a 75 gallon aquarium she got for the turtle she adopted.  It now occupies one of our unused bedrooms and has two filters, a sun lamp, a basking platform (which I built), an aerator and several guppies that were introduced for food but have managed to live the last few weeks.  The turtle is a rather largish red-eared version, about 9" across and rather personable (as far as turtles go).

Anyway, I estimate she's easily spent double the cost of AE on the turtle, so she's not going to begrudge me the purchase.  She might start begrudging me the time I spend on the game, though...

(in reply to DivePac88)
Post #: 50
RE: What A Great Game - 7/14/2009 5:01:41 PM   
Anthropoid


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From: Secret Underground Lair
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Matrix rocks! Can't think of a better company out there PERIOD (except maybe American Express, which is an incredible organization from a customer perspective). Long live Matrix Games!

WiTP is an incredible game. Definitely some problems, but they don't constitute "broken." Frustrating that the AI is such crap, but hey, that is gonna be fixed with AE, so why whine about it. Even WITH the broken WiTP AI, the game is still incredibly engrossing, and I am cofident I've spent enough time that I got it down into the pennies per hour cost ratio.

AE sounds like a fine new expansion to WiTP, and I'm really looking forward to playing it. Been buying a few too many games here lately, so I might wait a while before I buy AE, but definitely -will- buy it. Any 'serious' strategy wargamer who forsakes owning and trying WiTP or AE is IMHO the real fool.

One last point, that is for all you guys, but esp. the WiTP regulars: Matrix has a LOT of different games. During the first year or so that I owned my first Matrix game (WiTP IIRC) I just sorta looked askance at these other titles. Then I gradually started trying them. First TOAWIII, which is a great game . . . then Starships Unlimited, which is granted now a bit dated, but still a fun game for the price . . . then FoF which is incredible . . . Commander Europe at War . . . Close Combat Wacht Am Rhein . . . etc., etc.

I have gradually become, at least with my wallet if not also my forum presence, a true Matrix fanboy. I must own 8 or 10 Matrix games now. The last two I bought are the ones that standout in my mind the most: Hired Guns, and BoBII updated to 2.09.

If you guys have not tried some of Matrix other titles, do some shopping for something you think you might like and try something new!

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Post #: 51
RE: What A Great Game - 7/14/2009 5:48:51 PM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1609
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From: Upstate New York
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DivePac88


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg


quote:

ORIGINAL: BeastieDog

I have spent untold hours enjoying WitP. After reading the Guadalcanal AAR, I downloaded N's Guadalcanal MOD and spent most of this morning playing the AI. This has been great value for my entertainment dollar. Thanks, Matrix. I'm looking forward to AE!


What's this about an AE scenario that can be downloaded and played?! I quickly scanned through this forum for some link, but couldn't find anything. Am I misunderstanding BeastieDog's post, or has Matrix released some version of a demo?


No he means he downloaded Nikademus’s Guadalcanal Mod for WitP, and not for AE.


Drat! I guess if it sounds too good to be true, its probably not true.

(in reply to DivePac88)
Post #: 52
RE: What A Great Game - 7/14/2009 6:33:05 PM   
LST Express


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From: Texas
Status: offline
I've quit playing other computer games because of witp. Love the game and the support the game gets. Looking forward to AE big time!

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Post #: 53
RE: What A Great Game - 7/14/2009 6:36:53 PM   
DivePac88


Posts: 3123
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From: Somewhere in the South Pacific.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg


Drat! I guess if it sounds too good to be true, its probably not true.


There there sport... Its only 2 weeks tops now, not long.


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Post #: 54
RE: What A Great Game - 7/14/2009 8:44:14 PM   
morganbj


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From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
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WITP is, quite frankly, the best bargain on the market.  I've spent perhaps thousands of hours on it for a paltry 80 bucks, or whatever it was.  I went to one college football game last year, where we stinkin' lost, and dropped 80 bucks for a ticket, plus gas, plus food, etc.  Let's see, same price, thousands of hours of fun, as opposed to four hours in the blazing Texas heat to watch an underperforming bunch of clowns stumble, fumble and fall their way into oblivion .... I'll take WITP.

Bring on AE!  I plan on playing the heck out of it!!!

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Post #: 55
RE: What A Great Game - 7/14/2009 10:31:06 PM   
modrow

 

Posts: 1092
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Anthropoid,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Matrix rocks! Can't think of a better company out there PERIOD (except maybe American Express, which is an incredible organization from a customer perspective). Long live Matrix Games!



AGREED !!!

Who else would publish so many great games for us, including monsters like WitP, AE, Eagle Day to bombing the Reich, War in the East...

quote:


WiTP is an incredible game. Definitely some problems, but they don't constitute "broken." Frustrating that the AI is such crap, but hey, that is gonna be fixed with AE, so why whine about it. Even WITH the broken WiTP AI, the game is still incredibly engrossing, and I am cofident I've spent enough time that I got it down into the pennies per hour cost ratio.


Personally, I agree to this one as well - even though I expect that those who want accuracy and a perfect simulation may look at this from a different angle. I want a fascinating and complex game, with a reasonable amount of balance (which is not perfect in WitP either). But if someone wants a simulation and pure reality, I guess he may call it broken.

What I think is important is that from my point of view when someone is calling the game "broken" I think it cannot be based on a computer-technical interpretation of this word - for me, it runs really stable.

quote:


AE sounds like a fine new expansion to WiTP, and I'm really looking forward to playing it.


Well... I am definitely looking forward to AE, but I will definitely continue playing WitP as well - not just due to the game against Nemo. I think that for me AE will turn out to be an expansion OF WitP. Because of the inreased focus on logistics I expect a new, even more realistic dimension of the gameplay. To me, it's not just a mod with a new, more detailed map, improved OOB - it is a game with new aspects which will require new approaches and shift considerations.

quote:


If you guys have not tried some of Matrix other titles, do some shopping for something you think you might like and try something new!

DISAGREE !!!

(Note that I write this with the tongue in my cheek). Actually, I did some shopping and may continue to do so (actually, I am in process of looking at the demo of World War I which does not seem to deserve its bad reputation any more), but frankly speaking even truly excellent games (like disaster on the Donets) end up not being played because WitP eats all my playing time, especially since I got hooked on PBEM play.

This is in a way remarkable, because my first Matrix game was Korsun Pocket (still loved, especially the "across the dnepr (sp?)" expansion), and that made me buy a variety of other titles. Then I bought WitP, and I had real trouble getting into that game. Still remember the first time I fired it up and asked myself what to do with the first unit I was supposed to provide with orders (it was a Daitai of Betties)...

But ever since, none of the titles I bought did receive a lot of attention. WitP just overrode it. The new WitP turn was just more thrilling than the new game...

So let's do some shopping to keep Matrix in business and able to publish the games mentioned at the top of this post, but let's not expect that any but these games will be used on a regular basis

Just my 2 cts - and once more, thanks to Matrix

Hartwig

< Message edited by hartwig.modrow -- 7/14/2009 10:35:32 PM >

(in reply to Anthropoid)
Post #: 56
RE: What A Great Game - 7/14/2009 10:55:44 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
just to manage expectations and try and lower the mounting expectations bar all I guaranteed was an AI no worse than stock <starting to get scared by punters expectations of a Nemo level sneaky AI>

I hope and pray the AI is better but all I guarantee is no worse than stock.

So I want all those pitchforks, stakes, shotguns, ropes and other dangerous impements put away RIGHT NOW.

(in reply to modrow)
Post #: 57
RE: What A Great Game - 7/14/2009 10:58:23 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
p.s. I have to confess I have COG Emperors editio bought patched up ready to play and I cannot find time to play it its getting really frustrating !!

Also I know BTR and BOB are close now as well and I MUST buy them - getting AE done is top of the pile wso I can devote some serious time to COGEE and start nagging Hard Sarge a lot more to get a move on with BOB/BTR

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 58
RE: What A Great Game - 7/15/2009 12:02:18 AM   
modrow

 

Posts: 1092
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

just to manage expectations and try and lower the mounting expectations bar all I guaranteed was an AI no worse than stock <starting to get scared by punters expectations of a Nemo level sneaky AI>

I hope and pray the AI is better but all I guarantee is no worse than stock.

So I want all those pitchforks, stakes, shotguns, ropes and other dangerous impements put away RIGHT NOW.


Well... just to clarify: At least I was not really relating to AI (just AE) and I don't expect a Nemo level AI. That would mean an AI capable of doing mindplay the way he does, and then we should start looking out for and hunting down loose terminators before it's too late...

But I think recently Vettim89 mentioned this in the AAR of the 2 by 2 game formerly run by John 3rd and Q-Ball:

quote:


Nemo has taught me a lot. His extensive knowledge of warfare on a theorectical level is amazing. What he has shown me though is that RL tenets of battle not only apply to WiTP but they work. I think that is testament to how good a game WiTP really is that if you use the same decision making processes that a RL strategic commander would use that you will be successful


Nemo replied

quote:

yes, at the strategic level. At lower levels WiTP can fall apart a bit ( which they are trying to fix in AE ) but at the strategic level it achieves its aim of actually showing how almost everything must be suborned to logistics/strategy


What I expect from AE based on what I read in these forums is that the need to suborn to logistics gets even stronger. Potentially, this may make the AI look better, because I think that a) it may become more difficult to unhinge it completely and b) human operational creativity will be lead on a short logistical leash. But what the AI does is not my main issue (even though I do appreciate all the work you put into it and may play against it to do some training).

Hartwig

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 59
RE: What A Great Game - 7/15/2009 12:05:44 AM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 3109
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline
World War I: La Grande Geurre . . . it must have been _very_ painful when it first came out. It was painful enough when I bought it back in Jan or Feb, nonetheless, a very interesting innovative design. I stuck with it for a few weeks and posted a lot on the Ageod forum to help out with feedback, but eventually lost interest just before the patch (think it was 1.6d ? that is the latest patch?) which seems to have pretty much fixed it and made it a solid, playable game that allows the games full potential to shine through. I played  few turns with it patched, but by then had moved on to other things.

As far as I can tell, it is now _FIXED_ to the point of being a really good game, I just have not played it enough in its latest patched incarnation to rave about it. Put it this way: even prior to the last patch which fixed some pretty serious issues, I found it to be a ver compelling and well-designed game.

Unlike some of you monogamous WiTP lovers, I'm more of a game slut; hook up with one for a few weeks or months until she gets predictable, then make her the spare and shift another (either new or from the old pile) up to primary status for a while. Right now I'm really loving Battle of Britain II: Wings of Glory . . . which BTW, off to try to shoot down some Spitfires in my Me109!

< Message edited by Anthropoid -- 7/15/2009 12:07:53 AM >


_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 60
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