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Naval Supply - 7/1/2009 1:14:19 AM   
06 Maestro


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I have ignored the naval aspects of this game a little too much-now it is costing me.

Anyway, I assumed that "upkeep" for fleets was automatic. I was just analyzing a dwindling fleet and noticed that the individual ships have a "forage" setting. Does this mean that a fleet over a certain size requires a depot?

Whoa is me.

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RE: Naval Supply - 7/1/2009 1:50:42 AM   
evwalt

 

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1.5.1 states that naval units also need supply (though until you mentioned it, I nver noticed). From looking over the modders guide, it would appear ocean areas have a weather value of '0' (1-8 for land, with 8 being the best (ie. more people can forge there).

Thus, it would appear that ships would suffer the most (maybe only?) from bad weather.

Were you taking losses everywhere or just in fleets in bad weather areas?

(in reply to 06 Maestro)
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RE: Naval Supply - 7/1/2009 1:59:48 AM   
06 Maestro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: evwalt

Were you taking losses everywhere or just in fleets in bad weather areas?

In port.

So, it looks like a depot is needed for the fleet-this is bad news. Those ships use a lot of manpower.

_____________________________

Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.

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RE: Naval Supply - 7/1/2009 2:02:47 AM   
Mus

 

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AFAIK "supply/forage" buttons for a ship is vestigial.

Having played 2 games as Great Britain now in PBEM, one very long (52 turns now) I feel confident I would know if they required supplies. They dont.

Are you sure your ships didnt start the scenario understrength? Many nations ships start at 7 in the 1792 scenario for some reason.

Every turn in port they have a chance to be repaired. The formula for that is in the manual or appendix.

< Message edited by Mus -- 7/1/2009 2:06:36 AM >


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RE: Naval Supply - 7/1/2009 3:27:37 AM   
06 Maestro


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Thanks for that info Mus.

I'm talking specifically about the Turkish Fleet. It has bee shrinking slightly each turn. This by a percentage of ship strength I guess as the number of ship units is the dame. It started off with about 198 of 320 (something like that), but is now down to 98 of 320. It seems to have balanced out over the past couple of turns.

I will create a depot just for this fleet to see what happens.

_____________________________

Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.

Thomas Jefferson


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RE: Naval Supply - 7/1/2009 3:54:20 AM   
Mus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

Thanks for that info Mus.

I'm talking specifically about the Turkish Fleet. It has bee shrinking slightly each turn. This by a percentage of ship strength I guess as the number of ship units is the dame. It started off with about 198 of 320 (something like that), but is now down to 98 of 320. It seems to have balanced out over the past couple of turns.

I will create a depot just for this fleet to see what happens.


Could you post a screenshot of the fleet at a higher strength than what it is currently?

Earliest I have site of the Turkish fleet is Turn 8.

Turn 8, 9 and 10 all show the fleet at 98 strength. 14 ships at 7 strength each. I think you might be imagining things.






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RE: Naval Supply - 7/1/2009 4:06:02 AM   
06 Maestro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mus


Turn 8, 9 and 10 all show the fleet at 98 strength. 14 ships at 7 strength each. I think you might be imagining things.



Well, I hope not-I'm not taking medication-yet.

I will have to check this-be back soon.

_____________________________

Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.

Thomas Jefferson


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RE: Naval Supply - 7/1/2009 4:13:23 AM   
06 Maestro


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OK-I just looked at turn 1& 2 from our PBM game. The actual starting strength figure is 126-after its one little voyage to Egypt, there was no change. It is currently at 98-with the same number of ships though. If I can find something that change in the open view of the fleet, I will post it.



_____________________________

Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.

Thomas Jefferson


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RE: Naval Supply - 7/1/2009 5:24:58 AM   
Mus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

OK-I just looked at turn 1& 2 from our PBM game. The actual starting strength figure is 126-after its one little voyage to Egypt, there was no change. It is currently at 98-with the same number of ships though. If I can find something that change in the open view of the fleet, I will post it.




What are the strengths of all the ships in the 14 ship fleet turn 1? 9 each?

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RE: Naval Supply - 7/1/2009 6:17:40 AM   
06 Maestro


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OK-as the drop in strength was not as drastic as what I thought it was-I think I know what this is about. Early in the game I decided to reduce readiness-to 75%. The current numbers fit that. The number of ships have not changed.

I guess that I am getting a little paranoid about being robbed due to my disappearing trade money. Perhaps the pirates were stealing my ships too.

Thanks for looking into this, but I think its just the strength setting-I will know for sure after a few more turns. I just had not paid much attention to the fleet-it need a few bucks to shine it up-bucks I don't have.

_____________________________

Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.

Thomas Jefferson


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Post #: 10
RE: Naval Supply - 7/1/2009 6:41:00 AM   
Mus

 

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Yeah military readiness at 75 would reduce all your divisions to 7500 men and apparently your ships to strength 7. Mystery solved.

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RE: Naval Supply - 7/1/2009 1:18:08 PM   
barbarossa2

 

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Interesting that dropping military readiness applies to ships in this way.

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RE: Naval Supply - 7/1/2009 1:55:22 PM   
morganbj


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MR is a bit of an abstraction, I'm afraid.  I see how a unit can be 70% strength, but I've never understood how a ship can be, even if the crew was at 70% strength.  Oh well.

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RE: Naval Supply - 7/1/2009 2:51:48 PM   
barbarossa2

 

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I have to admit, I would definitely recommend removing the ships from the "military readiness" effects (of course, the nation would have to keep supporting them at full cost). I can buy into the military readiness abstractions for the land units. But not the naval units.

It would be nice if we could simply "decommission" ships. But that may be for a future release!

Unless, of course, everyone here in the forum would go out and buy a second copy of CoG:EE today just to make this all possible! :D

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Post #: 14
RE: Naval Supply - 7/1/2009 5:06:39 PM   
ericbabe


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Naval units should be affected by military readiness, in my opinion: the British had >100,000 men in the Royal Navy, and upkeep costs for the RN were an enormous part of the national budget.  Military readiness should be able to affect this cost, simulating how the British were able to stand-down after the Peace of Amiens.

It might be more realistic to affect the navy by-ship rather than strength-per-ship, but this would not be an easy thing to do with the engine.  It would be more realistic to have it affect both, as ships were almost universally short on manpower throughout the war, but even more so as the RN was gearing up for war from peace time levels of operation.


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RE: Naval Supply - 7/1/2009 5:34:58 PM   
Randomizer


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My only significant bone to pick with CoG-EE is they way it overall treats naval units and sea warfare as just another flavour of land combat.  This is probably inevitable and certainly not a game-breaker but rather a minor irritant that comes to the fore in discussions like this one.

Rather than the simplistic readyness value for ships and land units alike, I would like to see a system where one could take ships out of front line service and placed in reserve (laid up in "ordinary" was the RN term) at greatly reduced cost.  The Peace of Amiens is indeed an excellent example since the Royal Navy warships that remained seagoing after the treaty was signed were at (typically) 100% readyness for action but the majority of ships were de-stored and laid up with only caretaker crews.  The French also typically placed all but essential high-readyness ships in reduced readyness at their naval ports to save money and resources and the Russians would usually demobilize much of the Baltic Fleet during the winter months.

When war resumed or naval operations required it, fleet mobilization process only took time, manpower and money, all assets available to the player.

Too bad such a thing is probably impractical to write code for in the CoG-EE system.

Best Regards

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RE: Naval Supply - 7/1/2009 5:59:09 PM   
Russian Guard


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In the wishlist I laid out an idea for players being able to place individual ships "in ordinary" to save money, at the cost of them being vulnerable should that port be taken by an enemy invasion.





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