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I hate bookstores - 6/8/2009 4:17:49 PM   
Perturabo


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Ok, so now I hate bookstores. More precisely, I hate the military history sections of bookstores.
I mean, almost all they have is pop history, especially lately. There are ton's of books about SS that write about them in very general terms, but it's almost impossible to find a book about the fall of France, about interwar-early war tanks, books that actually contain To&Es, etc.
When one wants to buy any really interesting book about military organisation and tactics, bookstores, even those dedicated to military history are useless.

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/8/2009 8:06:09 PM   
Arsan

 

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Hopefully now we can do internet shopping!
Check Amazon, the bookdepository, abebooks, alibris... 
You will find tons of stuff. You "only" need a high supply of money to buy and time to read!

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/8/2009 8:50:04 PM   
Perturabo


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Well, I've seen some prices of books that I wanted. One book that contained Korean War To&Es costed as much as a good quality boombox.
I guess they are mostly student books and sourcebooks for writers, not books for players and other hobbyists.

I suspect that if I'm looking for affordable To&Es, I should rather look for supplements for historical wargames? Does anyone know any good and affordable?

Anyway, it annoys me that there are tons of pop-history books, but almost nothing specific in bookstores. What's the point of publishing yet another book about Waffen SS?
There are a few books about a single thingie - but almost usually it's something famous and Nazi like 88, Panther or Tiger.

About 9/10 of books about national armies that I see are about Nazi German army and about 3/4 of them are about SS.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 6/8/2009 8:54:54 PM >


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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/8/2009 9:01:28 PM   
Arsan

 

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I'm sure there must be a lot of info on the web if you search for it.
Don't know about Korea, but for WW2 OOB's and TOE'S Niehortser's web seems awesome
http://www.ordersofbattle.darkscape.net/site/ww2/drleo/index_01.htm

Hope it helps!

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/9/2009 12:40:19 AM   
Perturabo


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Thanks, it's a great site!

Anyway, it's kinda sad that while people can gather such a wealth of info for free websites, commercial books with things like this are almost non-existant.


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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/9/2009 7:26:09 AM   
JudgeDredd


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Surely book stores are the same as any other stores? Shelf space costs money and therefore they have to put on the shelves stock what will move.

We already know we are a small, niche market when it comes to gaming. It strikes me as more than a little odd to think that might be different in the book world.

The books book stores show are the ones they think people will be most interested in. They are a business - they have to sell their stock. On the other hand, unlike gaming stores...you ask them to get you a book and they are more than willing.

< Message edited by JudgeDredd -- 6/9/2009 7:27:29 AM >

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/9/2009 2:45:39 PM   
105mm Howitzer


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Besides, those generic books actually help attract new blood in the field. It's not ( generally) by reading up on a little-known battle or historical fact that curiosity gets perked, but by seeing the big picture before-hand, one might get the urge to research the subject further. Thus the reason Discovery, Historia and the Military Channels are popular viewing choices...At least, I think..

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/9/2009 3:01:35 PM   
mack2


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I know how you feel. Go to a sci-fi section, and half the space taken up by bad fantasy books, da vinci code style junk and star wars expanded universe crap. Usually without classics like Clarke (There should be a law saying you have to have at least 2 copies of each of the Space Odyessy series and one The Collected Stories of Arthur C. Clarke), Asimov, Heinlein (I don't understand how you can have a sci-fi section without at least Starship Troopers), Pohl etc.

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/9/2009 3:10:03 PM   
105mm Howitzer


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Just like what I've been saying Mack. Not everyone is aware of Asimov's I Robot series, but I wager everyone has heard of ( or seen) I Robot by Will Smith. Or the new Battlestar Galactica series, or some other pop sci-fi flick. With the influx of the new ( or newer) versions, people might ( hopefully) be drawn to the original greats. However, seeing the shrinking spaces alloted by bookstores to the classics, I would agree some of it could be kept for these. ( but then again, which one would you keep? Pohl? Andersen? Heinlein? Foster?etc....hard to decide)
Cheers
MC

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/9/2009 3:24:52 PM   
sol_invictus


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Brick and mortar stores are the preserve of the great unwashed masses. Don't allow yourself to sink into their world of dark ignorance. Shop online.

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/9/2009 5:11:56 PM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mack2

I know how you feel. Go to a sci-fi section, and half the space taken up by bad fantasy books, da vinci code style junk and star wars expanded universe crap. Usually without classics like Clarke (There should be a law saying you have to have at least 2 copies of each of the Space Odyessy series and one The Collected Stories of Arthur C. Clarke), Asimov, Heinlein (I don't understand how you can have a sci-fi section without at least Starship Troopers), Pohl etc.

Well, in Polish bookstores one can find Starship Troopers, Stranger in a Strange Land, Fahrenheit 451, and some other classics lately.
Still, I suspect that, there isn't much market for reprinted classics, as they tend to disappear after some time.
Half of the libraries in my city have a few Heinlein's books, up to 15 Philip K. Dick's, most of Asimov's books, etc.
So, basically, there's no need to buy them and I suspect that very few people buy them.
On the other hand, only specialised Sci-fi libraries will have the poor books from series based on gaming universes, because for normal libraries it would be a waste of money, so there are a lot of poor fantasy/pulp sci-fi novels in stores.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Surely book stores are the same as any other stores? Shelf space costs money and therefore they have to put on the shelves stock what will move.

We already know we are a small, niche market when it comes to gaming. It strikes me as more than a little odd to think that might be different in the book world.

The books book stores show are the ones they think people will be most interested in. They are a business - they have to sell their stock. On the other hand, unlike gaming stores...you ask them to get you a book and they are more than willing.

Oh, I forgot to mention one thing. I was talking mainly about books about military units.

When it comes to battles...
There are tons of books about battles, campaigns and operations - on strategic and operational level.

If there's a book about a military unit, it will probably be about SS, Wehrmacht or Commandos.

There are almost no books on tactical level and about units other than SS/Wehrmacht/Commandos/.

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/9/2009 7:33:40 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 105mm Howitzer

Just like what I've been saying Mack. Not everyone is aware of Asimov's I Robot series, but I wager everyone has heard of ( or seen) I Robot by Will Smith. Or the new Battlestar Galactica series, or some other pop sci-fi flick. With the influx of the new ( or newer) versions, people might ( hopefully) be drawn to the original greats. However, seeing the shrinking spaces alloted by bookstores to the classics, I would agree some of it could be kept for these. ( but then again, which one would you keep? Pohl? Andersen? Heinlein? Foster?etc....hard to decide)
Cheers
MC



LOL I refuse to see a stupid Will Smith vehicle that trashes the entire I Robot series. I have to admit that I am only one of a few that are so disposed.



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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/9/2009 7:35:00 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

Brick and mortar stores are the preserve of the great unwashed masses. Don't allow yourself to sink into their world of dark ignorance. Shop online.



In our city, brick and mortar stores are essentially babysitting services. Public liabraries are even worse, they are unsupervised kiddie drop off's for working single moms.


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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/9/2009 8:50:15 PM   
105mm Howitzer


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Come on Jeffrey, it wasn't that bad, at least not as bad as Starship Troopers. Now, that was painful to watch. ( especially having the original book) The movie kinda let the whole societal aspect slip out the backdoor, doncha think?
Anyway, maybe the younguns that saw it might be tempted to pick up the novel and see what the story was really all about. ( more than just" Bugs, Mr Rico, zillions of them...")

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/9/2009 9:45:17 PM   
Perturabo


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Yeah, Starship Troopers was probably the worst adaptation of a Sci-fi book, ever. I wasn't tempted to read the book when I watched it. Mainly, because I didn't know that there was one and that it was about something else.
I've picked up Starship Troopers only after I learned that there are Powered Suits in it.


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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/10/2009 2:42:59 AM   
D.Ilse


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I'm lucky my local college Barnes and Nobles packs a good WWII section, esp when it comes to Osprey, all the new releases are there the day they are released..I normally go thumb through them there, pickup my WWII monthlys with my member card(plus vouchers they email me for 10-15% off) and if I like the titles I've checked out, I picked them up cheaper on Amazon.com normally..although I pick up the WWII "On Sale" hardbounds normally at Barnes.

best buy was a large hardbound on Hitler's War in Arctic(N.Russia, Finland and Norway) for 4.50$..and it's been a good referance for the northern conflict.

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/10/2009 2:55:54 AM   
Perturabo


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They started publishing Polish translations of Osprey books, but for some weird reason they started with Campaign series (there are tons of books about battles and campaigns on the market) instead of Men-at-Arms, Elite, Warrior or Battle Orders (i.e. stuff that is sorely missing).




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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/10/2009 10:07:05 AM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

We already know we are a small, niche market when it comes to gaming. It strikes me as more than a little odd to think that might be different in the book world.

The books book stores show are the ones they think people will be most interested in. They are a business - they have to sell their stock. On the other hand, unlike gaming stores...you ask them to get you a book and they are more than willing.

Hardcore strategic games being not present at stores has nothing to do with discrimination by stores and everything to do with strategic game publishers moving to online-only sales model.

Strategic games are present in media stores and mega-stores in Poland when they actually get published here. Hell, I bought CM3 at a newsagent.

Also, I don't quite understand why the books about SS would be the ones that people would be most interested in.

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/10/2009 10:14:31 AM   
SS Hauptsturmfuhrer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

They started publishing Polish translations of Osprey books, but for some weird reason they started with Campaign series (there are tons of books about battles and campaigns on the market) instead of Men-at-Arms, Elite, Warrior or Battle Orders (i.e. stuff that is sorely missing).





You sound like a very niche reader. For me the campaigns are the meat of a good book... the strategies, the fighting with some background added in. If you want stuff not on the shelves, just ask the staff to order the books you want. They will call you when the books arrive and you can go pick them up then. Bookstores are good.

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/10/2009 2:59:40 PM   
Perturabo


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The problem is that there are already lots of books about battles and campaigns.

So, instead of introducing a product that is missing from the market, they have decided to make more of the same.
It's the same as with books about units - there are books about SS, therefore there needs to be even more books about SS O_o .

As for ordering - I could order Osprey books even in a local media store, but they are too expensive for me (they cost 3,5-2 times more than similar books printed in Poland). I'll have to look for some book about France 1940, though.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 6/10/2009 3:13:12 PM >


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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/10/2009 6:39:00 PM   
mack2


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The Starship Troopers movie, only got the name really late during it's production. It was going to be a generic (if you can call a bug war generic) action movie, until someone realised they could option the license for the book, and they worked in all the references to it. As it stands it's either a really good satire on some of Heinleins ideals or a really bad interpretation of the book. Regardless, I don't think anyone should ever watch the movie and compare it in any way to the book. They are so different the movie is practically a parody (I'd slot it into "loving homage" than parody/satire) rather than an interpretation.

The 2 other movies in the series kinda suck. 2nd one is by far the worst.

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/10/2009 7:28:24 PM   
Perturabo


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I wonder what was the point of naming it Starship Troopers. They could make it a Wh40k movie or something like that.

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/10/2009 7:55:16 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 105mm Howitzer

Come on Jeffrey, it wasn't that bad, at least not as bad as Starship Troopers. Now, that was painful to watch. ( especially having the original book) The movie kinda let the whole societal aspect slip out the backdoor, doncha think?
Anyway, maybe the younguns that saw it might be tempted to pick up the novel and see what the story was really all about. ( more than just" Bugs, Mr Rico, zillions of them...")



I kind of enjoyed the first SST movie, the second one wasn't really an SST movie but more of a series projection with an watery SST theme. DIdn't see the 3rd SST one. I didn't even know their was one until a friend mentioned it to me.

I'll have to take your word for the I Robot movie, because I refuse to see it. Another Will Smith shoot em up ? I don't think so.

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/10/2009 7:58:50 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I wonder what was the point of naming it Starship Troopers. They could make it a Wh40k movie or something like that.



Indeed or Magic the Gathering, the two of which would get all the young folks to shell out $$ for, which is what it's all about.

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History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/10/2009 8:48:40 PM   
Perturabo


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Actually, Wh40k is so silly that it could be a great Wh40k movie.

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/10/2009 9:32:41 PM   
Arctic Blast


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

We already know we are a small, niche market when it comes to gaming. It strikes me as more than a little odd to think that might be different in the book world.

The books book stores show are the ones they think people will be most interested in. They are a business - they have to sell their stock. On the other hand, unlike gaming stores...you ask them to get you a book and they are more than willing.

Hardcore strategic games being not present at stores has nothing to do with discrimination by stores and everything to do with strategic game publishers moving to online-only sales model.

Strategic games are present in media stores and mega-stores in Poland when they actually get published here. Hell, I bought CM3 at a newsagent.

Also, I don't quite understand why the books about SS would be the ones that people would be most interested in.


I have to say, you have completely lost me with this argument. Of course, I AM looking at it from a North American perspective where book stores sell...books.

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/10/2009 9:58:40 PM   
Perturabo


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I wasn't talking about bookstores. I was replying to JudgeDredd's suggestion that it's unreasonable to expect hardcore strategy games in stores that sell ordinary games because stores want to sell stuff.


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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/10/2009 10:09:29 PM   
CJMello63


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Online is far superior.

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/10/2009 11:29:35 PM   
Zakhal


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I enjoyed all of teh SST movies. The last movie even had som stuff like the powersuits from the movies.

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RE: I hate bookstores - 6/11/2009 12:50:57 AM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CJMello63

Online is far superior.

True. I prefer not wait a month for a book, though.

Also, when I order a book in a local media-store, I don't have to pay for postal, which in some cases is half of price of a book.

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People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
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