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Crucial Generals to add. - 6/5/2009 9:13:18 PM   
Mus

 

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AS mentioned in this post:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2113892

Gil said WCS could add some of the crucial generals for every country to some of the scenarios that dont contain those generals because of their intended timeline.

For example, 1792 scenario on default timeline ends before Napoleon emerges, so the 1792 generals.txt doesnt contain Napoleon or any other general not around in the scenario defined timeframe.

This causes some issues or makes the game seem a little lacking when playing games for maximum time instead of the scenario default, as many people like to play PBEM games using earlier scenarios and maximum time to allow a lot of development and very long term strategy to come to fruition.

So this thread is to ask the following:

Which 2-3 or more generals for each country should be present in the generals.txt file in every scenario to emerge at the historically correct time?

Note that certain factions in certain scenarios arent missing their most historically significant generals, and so no changes would need to be made in those cases.

My contribution:

Edited out...



I just looked at the 1792 Generals.txt and noticed that Great Britain doesnt even get Moore or Beresford in the 1792 scenario as they do in the 1796 game.

So I guess its important to find out how many generals is considered "balanced" and how many is unbalancing. I would think every faction needs at least 3-4 generals. Maybe more.

Wellington and a few companions for England, plus Moore. France needs Napoleon and a few of his companions. Blucher is present in all scenarios (benefit of being old) but generals are still very sparse for Prussia in 1792.

Ill look forward to the ideas of others here.

< Message edited by Mus -- 6/5/2009 9:42:25 PM >


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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/5/2009 11:16:47 PM   
Mus

 

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Forgot to add, you can see which generals are missing by looking in C:\Matrix Games\Crown of Glory Emperor's Edition\Scenarios if you use default install location and then checking the COG2Generals file in any given scenario. 

The 1792 scenario is least complete followed by 1796.  1803 and 1805 might be the same list, they look very similar but I havent taken the time to verify.

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/7/2009 1:10:13 PM   
ptan54

 

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I reckon all the important generals (includes the French marshals, the British generals right to the end of the war) should be included.

France - this is easy, just take the list of Marshals (maybe exclude the inactive ones in later scenarios like Kellermann the elder, exclude the generally inactive marshals like Brune and Perignon, and exclude Berthier because he was more of a Chief of Staff?). There were a number of good generals who never made it to marshal but I think the game includes many of these already, like Reynier, Arrighi. Poniatowski should only be included in the scenarios where Poland begins as a French vassal - I am not sure if there is a way the programmers can check if Poland is a French satellite, because that should be the only situation under which Poniatowski will serve under France.

* Louis Alexandre Berthier, Prince of Neufchatel and of Wagram, Duke of Valengin. (1753 - 1815), Marshal of the Empire in 1804
* Joachim Murat, Prince d'Empire, Grand Duke of Clèves and Berg, King of Naples (1767 - 1815), Marshal of the Empire in 1804
* Bon Adrien Jeannot de Moncey, Duke of Conégliano (1754 - 1842), Marshal of the Empire in 1804
* Jean-Baptiste Jourdan, Count Jourdan (1762 - 1833), Marshal of the Empire in 1804
* André Masséna, Duke of Rivoli, Prince of Essling (1758 - 1817), Marshal of the Empire in 1804
* Pierre Augereau, Duke of Castiglione (1757 - 1816), Marshal of the Empire in 1804
* Jean Baptiste Jules Bernadotte, Prince of Ponte Corvo, King of Sweden and Norway under the name Charles XIV John, (1763 - 1844), Marshal of the Empire in 1804
* Guillaume Marie Anne Brune, Count Brune (1763 - 1815), Marshal of the Empire in 1804
* Jean de Dieu Soult, Duke of Dalmatie (1769 - 1851), Marshal of the Empire in 1804, Marshal General of France in 1847
* Jean Lannes, Duke of Montebello (1769 - 1809), Marshal of the Empire in 1804 †
* Édouard Adolphe Casimir Joseph Mortier, Duke of Trévise (1768 - 1835), Marshal of the Empire in 1804
* Michel Ney, Duke of Elchingen, Prince of Moscow (1769 - 1815), Marshal of the Empire in 1804
* Louis Nicolas Davout, Duke of Auerstaedt, Prince of Eckmühl (1770 - 1823), Marshal of the Empire in 1804
* Jean-Baptiste Bessières, Duke of Istria (1768 - 1813), Marshal of the Empire in 1804 †
* François Christophe de Kellermann, Duke of Valmy (1737 - 1820), Marshal of the Empire in 1804 (Honorary)
* François Joseph Lefebvre, Duke of Danzig (1755 - 1820), Marshal of the Empire in 1804 (Honorary)
* Dominique Catherine de Pérignon, Marquis of Grenade (1754 - 1818), Marshal of the Empire in 1804 (Honorary)
* Jean-Mathieu-Philibert Sérurier, Count Sérurier (1742 - 1819), Marshal of the Empire in 1804 (Honorary)
* Claude Victor, Duke of Bellune (1764 - 1841), Marshal of the Empire in 1807
* Jacques MacDonald, Duke of Tarento (1765 - 1840), Marshal of the Empire in 1809
* Nicolas Oudinot, Duke of Reggio (1767 - 1847), Marshal of the Empire in 1809
* Auguste Marmont, Duke of Ragusa (1774 - 1852), Marshal of the Empire in 1809
* Louis Gabriel Suchet, Duke of Albufera (1770 - 1826), Marshal of the Empire in 1811
* Laurent, Marquis de Gouvion Saint-Cyr, Marquis of Gouvion-Saint-Cyr (1764 - 1830), Marshal of the Empire in 1812
* Józef Antoni Poniatowski, Prince Poniatowski (1763 - 1813), Marshal of the Empire in 1813 †
* Emmanuel, marquis de Grouchy, (1766 - 1847), Marshal of the Empire in 1815

I am not that familiar with the non-French commanders unfortunately.

< Message edited by ptan54 -- 6/8/2009 7:54:09 AM >

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/8/2009 10:22:51 PM   
Mus

 

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I guess yoshino made a mod putting more generals in the 1792 scenario, but I think he put in all of Frances generals and only a couple for the rest of the nations.  That might be considered unbalanced.

You can look at it here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2111384

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/9/2009 2:34:17 AM   
ptan54

 

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It is unbalanced, maybe we should add in everyone from the later scenarios except those who retired/died.

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/9/2009 9:08:55 PM   
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Something that may be of interest - I created a mod for a 1796 "Grand Campaign" that stretches from March 1796 to 1815. It includes all Generals from 1796 onward, modded into the campaign at appropriate times. There's a few new generals, and many Generals that begin this campaign appear at a lower rank and earlier time-frame (for example, most of France's Marshalate had yet to be promoted by Napoleon, and thus begin the game as 1-stars).

Attached is the readme for this Campaign, which details the changes made and my thoughts on how and why things were modded. I can't post the scenario itself until the patch comes out, as the scenario relies on the new material.








Attachment (1)

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/9/2009 11:55:17 PM   
Mus

 

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Thats promising RG.  Im going to run it by our PBEM group (in opponents wanted section) and see what they think.

Players understandably want to play the longest timeline possible to make the weaker nations more maleable to their players long term strategies, but the vanilla 1792 scenario is missing all the generals that give a Napoleonic game the proper feel.

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/10/2009 1:19:50 AM   
Russian Guard


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I originally designed this for my own entertainment, but I suspect that it is probably more enjoyable as a multi-player game.

One thing I can assure you - no game errors or bugs. I've played it myself numerous times. Beyond that, if it appeals, great.

Actually, now that I think about it...if you guys see something in the mod that you _don't_ prefer, I could certainly "fix" it the way you want it, assuming it wasn't too cumbersome a request (like "redo all the Generals" heh).







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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/10/2009 2:48:42 AM   
ptan54

 

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This is excellent stuff, thanks!

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/10/2009 4:39:07 AM   
IronWarrior


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That looks outstanding Russian Guard! Thanks for this!

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/10/2009 7:02:27 AM   
Bonaparte78


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Great Russian Guard! Can't wait for the release of your mod !

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/10/2009 9:06:44 PM   
06 Maestro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bonaparte78

Great Russian Guard! Can't wait for the release of your mod !


Ditto.

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/10/2009 10:31:23 PM   
Anthropoid


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Great job Russian Guard! But . . . well, since you asked for 'requests'  . . . could it be set up for the 23-year long 1792 scenario too? That wouldn't be like 'redo the whole thing' would it??

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/10/2009 10:49:10 PM   
Randomizer


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Woo Hoo, a bandwagon.  Think I'll climb on board...

Seriously Russian Guard, your scenario looks well thought out, plausable and very interesting.  I look forward to giving it a try.  Thanks in advance for your efforts.

Best Regards

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/11/2009 1:30:45 AM   
Russian Guard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Randomizer

Woo Hoo, a bandwagon.  Think I'll climb on board...

Seriously Russian Guard, your scenario looks well thought out, plausable and very interesting.  I look forward to giving it a try.  Thanks in advance for your efforts.

Best Regards



Thanks to all for the kind words - I know the periods well enough I think, to be able to reasonably tie the periods (1796-1803 and 1803-1815) together. I tried hard not to make wholesale changes that fit "my" version of history, but rather just tie the scenario elements together with factual data and use the awesome modding availability made by Eric and Co. to make it work.

Aside - I mention in the readme that when AI France chooses a Naval strategy, they sometime use the Army of Italy and invade in the Med, stranding Napoleon and the Army. Thus I modded the French Battle Fleet from Provence to Langeudoc to try to stop that. It worked.

However, I was playing it last night and the AI French moved the Army of the Alps down to Languedoc and sea-invaded anyways so it isn't a fool-proof way of stopping this (at least it isn't Napoleon being stranded, heh). Not a problem of course, if France is being played by a human player.





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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/11/2009 1:35:45 AM   
Russian Guard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Great job Russian Guard! But . . . well, since you asked for 'requests'  . . . could it be set up for the 23-year long 1792 scenario too? That wouldn't be like 'redo the whole thing' would it??



Thanks - but I'm much less familiar with the earlier period. I rarely (if ever) have even played the 1792 scenario.

At the very least, I might be able to mod the generals.txt file to stretch the entire 23 years. That would amount to just changing the historical dates of entry to match the new time-frame and mod in the Generals from 1792. Of course, a number of those 1792 Generals would be really old come 1815...




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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/11/2009 7:57:08 AM   
Kingmaker

 

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HiHi

RG, the only serious objection for some folk in the Multi-player PBEM group to playing the 1792 scenario over 23 yrs seems to be because Napoleon isn’t in it, as Anthropoid suggests you would be doing us all a service if you could spare the time & effort to upgrade it.

I think most of the group is in agreement that the 1792 start date gives the smaller nations of Sweden, Turkey and Spain a better chance to develop and become more integrated into the game as Nations in their own right rather than just cannon fodder for the other 4 Nations, this would make the game less of a, “screw france at all costs” affair; but the sticking point seems to be, no Napoleon, so if you would be prepared to give it a go, as mentioned you would be doing a ‘Goodthing’

All the Best
Peter

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/11/2009 2:35:27 PM   
Anthropoid


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kingmaker

HiHi

RG, the only serious objection for some folk in the Multi-player PBEM group to playing the 1792 scenario over 23 yrs seems to be because Napoleon isn’t in it, as Anthropoid suggests you would be doing us all a service if you could spare the time & effort to upgrade it.

I think most of the group is in agreement that the 1792 start date gives the smaller nations of Sweden, Turkey and Spain a better chance to develop and become more integrated into the game as Nations in their own right rather than just cannon fodder for the other 4 Nations, this would make the game less of a, “screw france at all costs” affair; but the sticking point seems to be, no Napoleon, so if you would be prepared to give it a go, as mentioned you would be doing a ‘Goodthing’

All the Best
Peter



Yeah! that is exactly why I ask. The 1792 is really the best for a good long PBEM in which all the minor nations have some fighting chance to actually win.

Even if all you did was: (a) change the start date and end dates of your existing 1796 version to be start 1792, and end 1823 or whatever, and then maybe just include the generals that are already included in the 1792 scenario, I think that would be a TREMENDOUS asset for the PBEM community. Our group in the "Another PBEM" is talking about restarting once the patch comes out, and we are sort of split about which scenario to play. Some argue that latter scenarios would disadvantage smaller powers too much, while others are reluctant to play 1792 cause some of the basic stock generals included in the other later scenarios never show up. Just a 1792 scenario in which all the stock generals in the other scenarios show up at the appropriate time would solve our dilemma! Let alone if you added in all of your additional post-1796 generals . . . that would be simple awesome!


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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/11/2009 5:39:14 PM   
06 Maestro


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I have started all of my games from 1792. I figured that France and Britain would be fairly dominant in the later scenarios-plenty of fun if you are playing one of those. I Will eventually move on to those later scenarios.

In a few of my games I have played well into the 19th century. It detracts from the game a bit if there is no sign of Nappy. So, I will chime in here also; to have the historical leaders appear at the appropriate time in the earlier stating scenarios would be a very good thing.

< Message edited by 06 Maestro -- 6/11/2009 7:19:40 PM >


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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/11/2009 11:04:53 PM   
Mus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kingmaker

RG, the only serious objection for some folk in the Multi-player PBEM group to playing the 1792 scenario over 23 yrs seems to be because Napoleon isn’t in it, as Anthropoid suggests you would be doing us all a service if you could spare the time & effort to upgrade it.


Another issue with the 1792 scenario is that Napoleon would give France 2 national hero generals and be getting big morale bonuses come 1796.

So maybe a house rule Dumouriez has to be removed from play (using a Remove General treaty) when Napoleon appears? Historically he defected to the Austrians.

Other than that if RG would make the mod with all the important generals for each nation included at their historic start dates I would be all for playing a modded 1792.

I just dont know if he wants to do that. If not the 1796 mod looks great.

< Message edited by Mus -- 6/11/2009 11:06:02 PM >


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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/12/2009 1:57:34 AM   
Russian Guard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kingmaker

RG, the only serious objection for some folk in the Multi-player PBEM group to playing the 1792 scenario over 23 yrs seems to be because Napoleon isn’t in it, as Anthropoid suggests you would be doing us all a service if you could spare the time & effort to upgrade it.


Another issue with the 1792 scenario is that Napoleon would give France 2 national hero generals and be getting big morale bonuses come 1796.

So maybe a house rule Dumouriez has to be removed from play (using a Remove General treaty) when Napoleon appears? Historically he defected to the Austrians.

Other than that if RG would make the mod with all the important generals for each nation included at their historic start dates I would be all for playing a modded 1792.

I just dont know if he wants to do that. If not the 1796 mod looks great.



I just completed the 1792 Generals mod, I'll be posting it in the mods area shortly. There's a readme attached that discusses what things I had to do to make everything work.

Your point about Dumouriez is dead-on, and I mention that specifically in the readme.

I know you guys know this, but just to be clear - I am not an employee of either Martix or West-Civ, so the modding I do is not official, not tied to them in any way.






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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/12/2009 2:11:01 AM   
Anthropoid


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Russian Guard


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kingmaker

RG, the only serious objection for some folk in the Multi-player PBEM group to playing the 1792 scenario over 23 yrs seems to be because Napoleon isn’t in it, as Anthropoid suggests you would be doing us all a service if you could spare the time & effort to upgrade it.


Another issue with the 1792 scenario is that Napoleon would give France 2 national hero generals and be getting big morale bonuses come 1796.

So maybe a house rule Dumouriez has to be removed from play (using a Remove General treaty) when Napoleon appears? Historically he defected to the Austrians.

Other than that if RG would make the mod with all the important generals for each nation included at their historic start dates I would be all for playing a modded 1792.

I just dont know if he wants to do that. If not the 1796 mod looks great.



I just completed the 1792 Generals mod, I'll be posting it in the mods area shortly. There's a readme attached that discusses what things I had to do to make everything work.

Your point about Dumouriez is dead-on, and I mention that specifically in the readme.

I know you guys know this, but just to be clear - I am not an employee of either Martix or West-Civ, so the modding I do is not official, not tied to them in any way.


Wow! That is awesome Russian Guard! Thanks so much for doing that and for doing it so quickly!

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/12/2009 4:40:00 AM   
Mus

 

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Awesome RG.  Thanks a bunch.

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/12/2009 10:05:51 PM   
ericbabe


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Yes, thank you!

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/12/2009 11:43:05 PM   
Anthropoid


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And thanks for clarifying how you can have both the "All Generals" version and the stock version both on your machine!

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/13/2009 5:26:24 AM   
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RG,

Thanks for the 1792 mod.  Now that the patch is out, could you post your 1796 mod?

Thanks,
Dave

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RE: Crucial Generals to add. - 6/13/2009 6:13:23 AM   
Russian Guard


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Posting it momentarily - be sure to check the readme file.




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