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RE: Sell me the game! - 5/30/2009 1:46:14 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort
RE: EiA - My point and the point I want to hammer to those reading <cough, Erik, cough> is that the PC version of EiA should NOT have required pre-knowledge of the boardgame for players. If it did, then this should have been stated beforehand (i.e. THIS GAME WILL REQUIRE KNOWLEDGE OF THE EiA SYSTEM) - and I hope WiF, which is equally if not more complicated than EiA, will not be the same way.


I agree.


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RE: Sell me the game! - 5/30/2009 1:54:21 PM   
sapper_astro

 

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Hmm, the answers have been excellent so far.

A few questions immediately come to mind:

1) What are the key differences (besides the amount of scenarios) between Advanced Tactics and Kharkov when it comes to the actual game system? If both had a Kharkov scenario, setup in the same manner, what would the main differences be, if you get my drift? Pro's and Con's.

2) Regarding the Civil War games:

Which has the best AI?

Does Western Civilisations game have an easy economy mode?

What is the difficult part of the Ageod game? I found BoA to be very easy to "get", yet quite a few reviews say it is almost impossible to pick up and play.

Is the GG game a Civil War version of WaW?

Edit: Additional question. Strategic command 2, is it a two side affair where the Allied player has WA and soviets? or is there an AI for whichever side the player does not pick?

< Message edited by sapper_astro -- 5/30/2009 3:57:58 PM >

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RE: Sell me the game! - 5/30/2009 3:48:04 PM   
Lützow


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Kharkov offers one fix scenario and a historical accurate OOB. However, Advanced Tactics is a flexible game with generic units. The latter one leans more toward TOAW but on a smaller scale with less scenarios and maps of 200x200 hex at most. You could do some kind of cross comparison by downloading 'Battle in Normandy' and 'TOAW I' demos, which both should be still available on the web.

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RE: Sell me the game! - 5/30/2009 4:03:58 PM   
terje439


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Do not know if this is what you mean by simpler economy, but these are your options when you start a game of FoF.

I just want to add, that I bought FoF on a whim and it is now one of my overall favorite games of all times.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by terje439 -- 5/30/2009 4:04:44 PM >


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RE: Sell me the game! - 5/30/2009 4:16:48 PM   
sapper_astro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

Do not know if this is what you mean by simpler economy, but these are your options when you start a game of FoF.

I just want to add, that I bought FoF on a whim and it is now one of my overall favorite games of all times.





The economy/improvements/banks/etc in CoG1 became a headache to me at times. I was wondering if this game has the same business in it?


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Post #: 35
RE: Sell me the game! - 5/30/2009 4:43:54 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sapper_astro
1) What are the key differences (besides the amount of scenarios) between Advanced Tactics and Kharkov when it comes to the actual game system? If both had a Kharkov scenario, setup in the same manner, what would the main differences be, if you get my drift? Pro's and Con's.


Advanced Tactics is an outstanding game, but it's definitely designed as a "wargame construction set" with a variety of scenarios and support for random "Empire-style" games. I think everyone looks at AT and quickly sees that they'll get their money's worth. The great thing about AT is that it doesn't just have a lot of content, but the game system is really quite excellent as well and the gameplay is quite fun. From what I've seen it's probably become the favorite "intermediate" wargame for many of its owners, with TOAW III a more complex/historical/realistic alternative in the same ballpark concept-wise for grognards.

Some wargamers are more worried about Kharkov because it all comes down to how good that one big scenario is. Kharkov is much more along the lines of a great board wargame or one of the great "single battle" computer wargames of the past (look at SSG's previous works for one example). It has a great AI, a great scenario and great replayability thanks to the various options, variants and many different strategies that can be tried. While it's less obvious on the surface, Kharkov is also IMHO great bang for the buck.

quote:

2) Regarding the Civil War games:
Which has the best AI?


That's a really tough call too. For me personally it would probably be a tie between FOF and WBTS with AACW a close second. AACW's AI has a tougher job because of the larger map and more "gaps" to deal with. I would honestly give up on picking which is the best of these. If you like the ACW, just figure out which order you want to get them in. I realize this may sound ridiculous, but I really thing you need to plan on getting them all eventually if you're an ACW buff. If only one of them had been released, it would be hailed as the greatest ACW computer grand strategy wargame of all time, but instead we got three games in a couple of years that all qualify for that honor.

quote:

Does Western Civilisations game have an easy economy mode?


The FOF economy is much simpler than the original COG economy. It has four goods and producing them and managing them is made very easy and straightforward IMHO. It's much easier than the COG economy and only a bit more complex than the new COG:EE "Simple Economy".

quote:

What is the difficult part of the Ageod game? I found BoA to be very easy to "get", yet quite a few reviews say it is almost impossible to pick up and play.


I don't think AACW is difficult, but it is "huge". I think the challenge there is more like what a wargamer encounters with a game of WITP. There are so many units and places to wrap your head around each turn that it can be intimidating. The interface and the game system are not difficult to learn though and once you manage to figure out where everything is, things start to roll along.

quote:

Is the GG game a Civil War version of WaW?


No, it's related engine-wise and has some imilarities in terms of interface, but it's not a port of WAW. It's very much an original game that does an outstanding job of bringing all aspects of ACW strategy to life.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 36
RE: Sell me the game! - 5/30/2009 4:44:42 PM   
terje439


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Depends upon what was the issue you had with CoG.
In FoF there is no waste for starters, and without the advanced buildings there are something like 10 buildings to build in each province (mint, horse farm, factory, mine, shipyard, barrack etc etc (sorry I do not recall which are "advanced buildings), basically the buildings that improve the income of the four resources you have (money, iron, horses and manpower). Each building has some text explaining what it does (aka: A mint improves the income of money by +2 in this province.)
At lowest level there is not really alot to pay attention to save those four resources.
It would be easier if you asked specific questions, as I have no idea what you are truely asking

Terje

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RE: Sell me the game! - 5/30/2009 5:40:16 PM   
sapper_astro

 

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terje, it is all good, Erik has cleared up the main points and the information you just provided answered the question quite well.

It is a joke though, I have whittled it down to a few games for now, with other choices put in the reserve basket for another time:

An as yet undecided ACW game. Always wanted a good ACW strat game.

Guns of August...Just as I have always wanted a good WW1 strat game.

Kharkov

Advanced Tactics

With an occasional glance at CoG EE.

Tyranny of choice, don't you love it? As for buying all three of the ACW games show me the money Erik



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RE: Sell me the game! - 5/30/2009 7:20:47 PM   
Hertston


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
If only one of them had been released, it would be hailed as the greatest ACW computer grand strategy wargame of all time, but instead we got three games in a couple of years that all qualify for that honor.


Quite true.

I think a decision between the three might be easier than that suggests, though, as beyond the purely subjective all three have distinct features that may, or may not, suit your preferences. The Ageod game provides the best military simulation (and looks the best, for whatever that is worth), but does take both considerable time to play and require a dedicated attention to detail. FoF is a good all rounder which has one huge plus over the others - tactical battles, should you want them; for many people, that is an essential part of the experience. And WbtS plays by far the quickest of the three, while still retaining a remarkable amount of depth and realism for a grand strategy game. Hence I prefer WbtS as I don't have much time these days, still like to actually finish games, and am not bothered about tactical battles. Your own requirements may be different, though! All three are thoroughly recommended but, if you are comfortable with and particularly enjoy BoA/BoA2 then I suspect AACW might be the right choice.

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Post #: 39
RE: Sell me the game! - 5/30/2009 11:14:50 PM   
cdbeck


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Erik has put a really quick and excellent synopsis of these very different games. In fact, it was pretty heroic being able to put all that together for games that are difficult to compare!

I agree with all he said. I will give the following caveats:

Forge of Freedom - A great game and probably the most detailed, realistic, and option packed simulation available (of ANY wargame out there) and certainly a great civil war sim. But even so, the economy is simpler than CoG stock, the game is still EXTREMELY complex. You can chose the upgrades of units, change the guns they carry, decide how much money to give to diplomacy, build one of several types of units and buildings in several dozen downs, interact with governors, fight gigantic (and extremely fun) hex-based turn-based battles, and deal with producing those four resources (you can even tweak production). So I would say that CoG:EE's simple economy is less complex than FoF, but I think that the options available in FoF are more compelling.

Advanced Tactics - Yes, Erik is right, AT is more of a "general" wargame with interesting mechanics and the ability to mod nearly anything. It isn't hard to play, which is why I love it, but it isn't the type of deep depth as War in the Pacific or Forge of Freedom. So the units seem a tad generic but the gameplay is not (and the units still have character). So AT is great for flexibility, and provides a neat Empire style game with a random map maker than is endless fun. The WWII setting is a bit of a veneer, but this isn't really the focus of such a great game.

Kharkov - I think Erik is perfectly right here, the game plays like one of those massive boardgames that simulate one major battle.

GWBTS - plays very little, other than the UI mechancis, like GG:AWD/WAW. An excellent game, a bit complex to grasp the command rules, but there is a lot to love here. I would say I prefer it's style to AACW.

SoM


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RE: Sell me the game! - 5/31/2009 3:53:41 PM   
SS Hauptsturmfuhrer


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Maybe you should buy all those games. They all sound good and the companies could sure use the support.


quote:

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade


I saw this and thought, eh? Then today just for fun I fired up Lord of the Realms III after months of only playing WW2 stuff like Kharkov and Battles in Normandy. So in the game there is a sub-campaign called Albigensian Crusade. The puzzle unravels.

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Post #: 41
RE: Sell me the game! - 5/31/2009 4:02:13 PM   
Obsolete


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LOL,  most people found III such a dissapointment.  The sierra forums were basically filled with so much hate after that release I'm not surprised there never was a part IV.




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RE: Sell me the game! - 6/1/2009 11:04:46 AM   
cdbeck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SS Hauptsturmfuhrer

Maybe you should buy all those games. They all sound good and the companies could sure use the support.


quote:

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade


I saw this and thought, eh? Then today just for fun I fired up Lord of the Realms III after months of only playing WW2 stuff like Kharkov and Battles in Normandy. So in the game there is a sub-campaign called Albigensian Crusade. The puzzle unravels.


I suggest reading Malcolm Barber's The Cathars or Joseph Strayer's The Albigensian Crusade (a bit old but still informative).

And where is Sapper... I'm dying to know what he chooses!

_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to SS Hauptsturmfuhrer)
Post #: 43
RE: Sell me the game! - 6/1/2009 1:08:34 PM   
sapper_astro

 

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Still deciding....

The list has grown smaller.

It is currently revolving around....

Advanced Tactics, FoF, CoG:EE. This is just my main list at the moment, and not set in stone. I am sifting through the forums, looking at reviews, etc, etc.

The other games (Carriers at War, Kharkov, GoA, the other two Civ war games, etc) are still in the running, but currently lagging behind. They may smash ahead depending on my further research.

I will wait for WiF and see how it is, and also keep my eyes on the new WW2 Road to Victory game when it comes out.

I am normally a fairly decisive person, but when it comes to a)Wargames and b) buying scale models to build, I take ages (or hours in the hobby shop)

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