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Is this for real? - 4/2/2009 10:16:18 AM   
demonterico


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Dang it I can't find my CD for WitP. I may have to buy another one, so I thought I would look around and see what was available. Look what I found; a Polish version of WitP.


< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 4/2/2009 10:59:30 PM >


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RE: Is this for real? - 4/2/2009 10:26:24 AM   
Terminus


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I think we've seen this before, and if I remember correctly, it's not legitimate.

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/2/2009 11:21:00 AM   
demonterico


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Big Suprise

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/2/2009 12:20:29 PM   
Terminus


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Not really, no...

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/2/2009 2:01:52 PM   
Misconduct


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There are a few copies of WiTP on the usebins for free to download, however I am not sure if you can patch it without a legit key since it seems to be some problems with the keys given. I think the best you can do is 1.50 without a legit key.

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/2/2009 2:09:36 PM   
Durbik


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quote:

Original boxed game with key published in Poland but in English language version. English instructions are in pdf Adobe Acrobat files (only the box is in polish language). Factory sealed, shrink-wrapped game.


What's wrong? I have the same version - box has it's description in polish, game is in english. Bought it in a gamestore.

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/2/2009 4:44:19 PM   
Feinder


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I don't think they every sold WitP in box via retail did they?

-F-

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/2/2009 5:31:21 PM   
Terminus


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No. That's why it's not legitimate.

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/2/2009 6:40:03 PM   
Hard Sarge


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I thought I remember reading where Matrix had a little side deal with somebody in Poland, so they could sell there products over there

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/2/2009 8:09:51 PM   
Durbik


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do you want to tell me I have a pirate copy of WITP - AND WPO?

I think you lack some info here, my copy has it's own serial number, nice box - etc etc

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/2/2009 11:07:37 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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This is not legitimate for purchase outside of Poland and I think it's not legitimate, period. Even within Poland, I don't think WITP was ever part of the deal. Let me give you a little background.

We made a deal through another company with a publisher in Poland to release a few of our games in limited quantities in Poland. We wanted to give Polish wargamers a chance to try our games at a price that was accessible to them and see if it made any sense for us or our developers financially. Frankly, we like Poland, so it seemed like a good place to try this out. This deal was done as a test market, in essence. The key elements of this deal were that:

1. The games could not be sold outside of Poland.
2. Only a limited number could be sold before the contract was over.

One of the first problems we heard about was that the publisher was publishing all the games with the same serial number. We had a number of Polish gamers complaining they couldn't register their copies. The publisher, as far as we know, did not fix this issue and it's now 3-4 years later and they're still selling these games, apparently in unlimited quantities and also internationally through E-Bay and other sites. We haven't seen a penny of these sales in that time.

So I honestly would ask that you not support this seller and publisher. Your money is going to their pockets, but not in any way supporting 2by3 Games or Matrix Games. We periodically shut down their E-Bay auctions, but they keep popping up and we have no recourse with the Polish company that the deal was made with. Unfortunate lesson learned.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/2/2009 11:23:02 PM   
Durbik


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Well I'll be damned! Thanks for the info. As far as serial is concerned me and my local PBEM opponent have different serial number. So our copies are legitimate, since they are OLD - and bought in Poland. Labelled "Nicholas games - ANG".



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RE: Is this for real? - 4/3/2009 12:52:56 AM   
Anthropoid


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

This is not legitimate for purchase outside of Poland and I think it's not legitimate, period. Even within Poland, I don't think WITP was ever part of the deal. Let me give you a little background.

We made a deal through another company with a publisher in Poland to release a few of our games in limited quantities in Poland. We wanted to give Polish wargamers a chance to try our games at a price that was accessible to them and see if it made any sense for us or our developers financially. Frankly, we like Poland, so it seemed like a good place to try this out. This deal was done as a test market, in essence. The key elements of this deal were that:

1. The games could not be sold outside of Poland.
2. Only a limited number could be sold before the contract was over.

One of the first problems we heard about was that the publisher was publishing all the games with the same serial number. We had a number of Polish gamers complaining they couldn't register their copies. The publisher, as far as we know, did not fix this issue and it's now 3-4 years later and they're still selling these games, apparently in unlimited quantities and also internationally through E-Bay and other sites. We haven't seen a penny of these sales in that time.

So I honestly would ask that you not support this seller and publisher. Your money is going to their pockets, but not in any way supporting 2by3 Games or Matrix Games. We periodically shut down their E-Bay auctions, but they keep popping up and we have no recourse with the Polish company that the deal was made with. Unfortunate lesson learned.

Regards,

- Erik


That sucks. Sorry to hear about that.

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/3/2009 1:19:53 AM   
demonterico


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Thanks for that interesting information Eric. I have no intention of buying anything of this nature, its just what I found when I started looking around, and thought it might be of some interest on the forum. As far as I'm concerned: A) Its much more important to me that I can support the work being done at Matrix, rather than save a few bucks. and: B) Who knows what you'll get buying any sort of softwear in this manner. This is a prefect example, for $36 the buyer gets worthless junk, and is supporting piracy, and who knows what else.

Is it true that WitP is only available through Matrix? As there was another seller, with an American address I believe, offering what appeared to be legitimate new copies on ebay as well. I'll go back and take a look.

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/3/2009 1:50:31 AM   
demonterico


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The Polish pirate is still there (ebay) with two ads, and there are also these two sellers offering "new" versions of WitP.

NWS Online Combat Gaming Store -- Location: Orlando, Florida

Strategy Page Wargame Shop -- Location: Alpine, Utah

Are these ligitimate retailers or pirates?




_____________________________

The world has never seen a more impressive demonstration of the influence of sea power upon history. Those far distant, storm-beaten ships, upon which the Grand Army never looked, stood between it and the dominion of the world. -- Alfred Thayer Mahan

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/3/2009 4:04:43 PM   
Misconduct


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quote:

ORIGINAL: demonterico

The Polish pirate is still there (ebay) with two ads, and there are also these two sellers offering "new" versions of WitP.

NWS Online Combat Gaming Store -- Location: Orlando, Florida

Strategy Page Wargame Shop -- Location: Alpine, Utah

Are these ligitimate retailers or pirates?



Problem with any Online retailer is some do shady business, for example they buy used games with a working key for cheap and re-sell them at bargin price. Only problem with this is the cd-key has already been installed/used and you might simply be buying a copy that's legit, however the cd-key is used. Only safest place I seen is Steam where if you buy and sell a game, once you sell it you are no longer owner of the CD-key and it will not work for you, they simply delete the key and issue a new one to a different customer.

I would be very careful buying any game from outside the parent company, unless its at a store like best buy or if the parent company has some websites where to buy it.

Perfect "bad" example of this is my local game stop had a copy of WiTP for sale (used copy of course) for only $15, I went online to see the game offered for $70 and figured the CD key was bad, of course I ask the guy if I can see if it was compatible with my laptop and got to install it and see if I could register the key, sure enough it was already "used". Honestly it was a good thing I checked online, I would hate to not register a cd-key anymore, I made that huge mistake once buying OEM copy of microsoft office where the key was "used" and I couldn't get updates period since my key was already "installed" else where.

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/3/2009 5:40:18 PM   
Przemcio231


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Phiii you should visit a marketplace near my place... they have everything you want, nowest movies games and such and their customer service is better then the one supplied by every company in the World Last time i bought a pirate game there it was when i was like 18 or something so nearly 10 years ago it was Warhammer Chaos Gate or something like that the copy was broken i went back there and they swithed the CD for another without any problems on the other hand some time ago i bought a game can't really recall its title at a store it was legal but some imbecile forgot to put a info on the box that it will not run on certain graphic card types... it took me 3 weeks to get my money back, my friend bought an original Civ III game the CD was broken it also took him 3 weeks of trying to get it switched as the shops send you back to the retailer so you have to worry about it by yourself. So some people might wonder why not to buy pirate copy if they can get it exchanged in case of trobules in matter of minutes or a legit copy which in case of trouble forces you to deal with people trying to do everything to tell you that the program is not working becouse you did something wrong (now you don't even need to go to a marketplace when you can download a game from some torrent site... my brother dose it and he can get a 7GB game in like matter of houers). I think the companys can't win with software piracy as they can't compete with the prices for pirate copy's (which are no longer crude homemade CD's or DVD's recorded on a home PC but rather produced in a factroy like normal legit software) like let's say my brother downloaded CODV it took like 3,5 hours to download it while the legit copy costs around 120 zl... for 120 zl you can have 4GB DSL during the day/8GB DSL during the night for a month and you will have enough money for few beers after you pay your bill for the connection.

Crap i have to run hope no one was offended by my post and i wanted to write something more into the subject but i will have to do it later.

MATRIX people i am Lawyer by education and i live in Poland... just checked and Nicolas Games is still selling WITP and WPO and other matrix games have you ever considered sueing them or something???


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RE: Is this for real? - 4/3/2009 6:01:07 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: demonterico
NWS Online Combat Gaming Store -- Location: Orlando, Florida

Strategy Page Wargame Shop -- Location: Alpine, Utah


These are legitimate. We do have a few re-sellers, but if you see a game being sold for 50% off and it wasn't one of the few of ours that went to retail (and thus has a secondary market) then you can be sure it's not legit. NWS and Strategy Page buy copies from us, they're fine.

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/3/2009 6:02:35 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231
MATRIX people i am Lawyer by education and i live in Poland... just checked and Nicolas Games is still selling WITP and WPO and other matrix games have you ever considered sueing them or something???


Feel free to e-mail me at erikr@matrixgames.com if you think there's a real chance of putting a stop to that.


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Director of Product Development




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/3/2009 6:49:10 PM   
cantona2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Misconduct


quote:

ORIGINAL: demonterico

The Polish pirate is still there (ebay) with two ads, and there are also these two sellers offering "new" versions of WitP.

NWS Online Combat Gaming Store -- Location: Orlando, Florida

Strategy Page Wargame Shop -- Location: Alpine, Utah

Are these ligitimate retailers or pirates?



Problem with any Online retailer is some do shady business, for example they buy used games with a working key for cheap and re-sell them at bargin price. Only problem with this is the cd-key has already been installed/used and you might simply be buying a copy that's legit, however the cd-key is used. Only safest place I seen is Steam where if you buy and sell a game, once you sell it you are no longer owner of the CD-key and it will not work for you, they simply delete the key and issue a new one to a different customer.

I would be very careful buying any game from outside the parent company, unless its at a store like best buy or if the parent company has some websites where to buy it.

Perfect "bad" example of this is my local game stop had a copy of WiTP for sale (used copy of course) for only $15, I went online to see the game offered for $70 and figured the CD key was bad, of course I ask the guy if I can see if it was compatible with my laptop and got to install it and see if I could register the key, sure enough it was already "used". Honestly it was a good thing I checked online, I would hate to not register a cd-key anymore, I made that huge mistake once buying OEM copy of microsoft office where the key was "used" and I couldn't get updates period since my key was already "installed" else where.



Steam is a royal pain in the arse

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/4/2009 12:28:18 AM   
Durbik


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I'm a lawyer from Poland also. About this sueing thing: if your contract expired already, or there was a fixed number of copies to be sold, Nicholas Games can be sued and defeated easily.

In this case however, guy is selling HIS OWN copy of WitP that he (as a customer - "consument") bought from the source he believed is legitimate. Polish civil code protects the consumer in that kind of case. So before court you can demand nothing from the seller, but from the Nicholas Games: 1). You can demand them to stop braking your law to intellectual property; 2). You can demand an amount of money exact to the amount of pecuniary damage that Matrix Games suffered from infringement upon it's rights.

I think it's not worth it, really. Of course if you want a plenipotent, that will work for a free copy of AE... (haw haw!)

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/4/2009 3:12:15 AM   
JeffroK


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Eric,

As there seems to be a strong market in Poland has anything been done to support it legitimately??


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RE: Is this for real? - 4/4/2009 3:27:44 AM   
FeurerKrieg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

I don't think they every sold WitP in box via retail did they?

-F-


I saw a boxed copy at Fry's in San Jose back in 2004(?) , priced at 79.99 so, yes I think there is some retail activity out there.

I bought two copies of WITP from an online retailer (strategy something or other) for a 'sale' price of 69.99. I'm sure it was legit because I've seen them mentioned on this site before.

< Message edited by Feurer Krieg -- 4/4/2009 3:28:07 AM >


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RE: Is this for real? - 4/4/2009 5:56:17 AM   
Misconduct


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I could use a spare manual, sucks I bought the game via digital download, at least with a Manual every time the gf wants to go somewhere I got an excuse to bring my book.. I tried the print edition, with all the colors I'd burn up $200 in ink.

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/4/2009 8:04:46 AM   
Przemcio231


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Erik mail send...

Durbik is right about the consumer stuff you can't do nothing to the men unless you can prove he is making a living out of it. Currently you can buy WPO and WITP at NG store for like 3$ he is selling them on e-bay for 36$ i say thats a decent profit exactly 1200%. Those folks selling stuff through the internet seldom pay their taxes from that so when you can prove that they are selling it just for the profit to make a living you can send a freindly annonymous message to the Ravenue Office and those people will ruin his day



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RE: Is this for real? - 4/4/2009 12:04:49 PM   
JeffroK


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Might be Urban myth Lawyering but;

If you appoint a distributor can they then sue to protect their product?


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RE: Is this for real? - 4/4/2009 1:05:30 PM   
Durbik


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If they are a real distributor (introducing the product to the market) - the answer is yes, they can sue. But they are not obliged to do so of course

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/4/2009 7:25:22 PM   
demonterico


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I like Przemcio"s suggestion. Report them to the Polish IRS. I have a feeling that tax collecters everywhere have the same MO.

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Post #: 28
RE: Is this for real? - 4/5/2009 11:11:40 AM   
Przemcio231


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Well in Poland they can ruin even a legal buissnesmen running perfectly legal buissnes. Some people were running a bussines of selling cell phones to the Ukraine... suddenly Ravenue Office decided that they are not exporting any cell phones there and the whole thing is a scam made up to avoid paying taxes Those poor people got their money and assets taken away left with nothing. The IRS people demanded that they need to present to them some proof's that they were really exporting those cell phones.(well i always thought that now you have to have your guilty proofed and you don't not need to proof anything) So those people found their ukrainian contractors except for one who went out of buissnes but still IRS did not belive them... so they went to court and the court rouled out that they are not guilty of fraud or anything but still IRS thinked otherwise and was really reculant in giving their money back... after like 5 or so years those people got their money back but i would no like to experience something. There were some other cases that even with a not-Guilty sentence the IRS people didn't want to give their money back becouse they argued that the court gave a wrong verdict

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RE: Is this for real? - 4/5/2009 7:10:50 PM   
demonterico


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Ah yes the dear sweet tax collectors. I'm willing to bet that their the same everywhere. My advice here in the USA is make sure everything is right and legal. Once you get your name on their list they can make you miserable for years. My exwife did tax work and brought plenty of horror stories home.

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