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Who was greater? The Army of Northern Virginia or the Grandee Army? Note I also posted this on CoGEE

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> Forge of Freedom: The American Civil War 1861-1865 >> Who was greater? The Army of Northern Virginia or the Grandee Army? Note I also posted this on CoGEE Page: [1]
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Who was greater? The Army of Northern Virginia or the G... - 3/31/2009 5:28:57 AM   
Jonah


Posts: 190
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline
As I stated, which Army is Greater? Which have greater leaders?

The similarities: Both armies are similar: They were outnumbered, against all odds, which relied on battlefield victories, Elan and it's commanders.

They relied on battlefield succsses. Napoleon did not have the manpower to win in the end, nor did Lee. They relied on quick victories like Austerlitz or the Seven Days. Both were masters of the battlefield: They both took risks and were aggressive. They took temporary risks for long term sucsess.

Their armies were similar: outnumbered but detirmined soldiers. Thet relied on bravery and elan. They had similar tactics, flank attacks or bayonet charges.

Their commanders: Both armies had great battlefield commanders. Davout was like Longstreet, slow, reserved but brilliant. Lannes was like Jackson: Bold, aggressive and takes many risks. Murat like Stuart: A Brilliant cavalry officer but filled with pomp and glory. Ney like Hood: Brave but not althogether brilliant but still a good soldier. Grouchy like Ewell: Not a bad officer but pinned for a bad scenario when he wasn't aggressive enough.

Their differences: The French had a greater chance for victory. The confederates did not. The French were the greatest trained army in the world, Lee's was far from it. The French had the greatest equipment, the Confederates had some of the worst. No army was more orderly then the French, the confederates were realatively disorganized.

The soldiers: The confederates were indiviually greater soldiers but the French were better as a unit. The Confederate artillery was rather poor as well where as the French had the greatest in history.

The Commanders: Napoleon had a different command style: HE was the mastermind and the commanders helped where as Lee was brilliant but relied more on his subordinates.

The verdict: Both Armies were succsesful in the field. Grande Armee had victories like Austerlitz, Ulm (Which I thought was their greatest), Auerstadt, Jena, Freinland, Six days campaign and more. The Army of Northern Virginia had 7 days, 2nd Mannasass, Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville, Wilderness, Cold Harbor, Spottsylvannia, Ream's station and more. In my opinion Napoleon's victories were more amazig but Lee's were against greater odds. The result in this area: Draw.

The troops: Napoleon's troops were not only better in training, but were greater soldiers in their prime. Result: Grande Armee wins.

The Commanders: While Napoleon's marshals were amazing, I preffered the ANV. They were all geniuses. There was never a greater gathering of talent. Not only the major ones like Jackson or Longstreet but even the brigade commanders. They could think for themselves and obey orders. Result: ANV.

The final result: In their prime, I would say the Grande Armee was by far greater. But by the time 1812 came around they deteriorated. More conscripts, lesser Marshals and more mercenaries. So on averege Lee's Army is greater. But all in all, both are great commands, And Lee's Army wouldn't be what it was without Napoleon's original tactics they later used. So all in all: The Grandee Army wins.

I would love all your opinions on this.
Post #: 1
RE: Who was greater? The Army of Northern Virginia or t... - 3/31/2009 11:16:13 AM   
terje439


Posts: 6893
Joined: 3/28/2004
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Hmm a hard one.

Napoleon
-Was not only supreme commander, but also head of state, and had total control.
-Had to fight several nations at once.
-Had bigger success with his campaigns.
-Made a huge mistake by DOWing Russia.
-If Napoleon was not at his best, his armies often suffered from it.
-Had a hard time since every nation was against him.

Lee
-Only had to focus on one enemy.
-Made a big mistake at Gettysburg.
-Could rely on Jackson and Longstreet to perform if he had a bad day. (Did not listen to Longstreet at Gettysburg however)
-Had initial success due to the Unions reluctance before the war to arm.
-Started the war by using tactics from the Napoleon era, which was not suited due to new weaponry.
-Had "supply" issues throughout the war.

Which was better?
Lee vs Napoleon as commanders -> Napoleon
Sub-commanders -> ANV
Army morale -> Tie
Battlefield successes -> Grande Armee/Napoleon
Top commanders support from the troops -> Tie
Army training -> Grande Armee
Army equipment -> Grande Armee
Army needs impact on the civilian population -> ANV
Chance of success -> Tie
Did the most against the odds -> Napoleon

So?
Napoleon/Grande Armee takes a marginal win, but if both armies were of equal size and equally equipped I would not put my money on either side...


(in reply to Jonah)
Post #: 2
RE: Who was greater? The Army of Northern Virginia or t... - 3/31/2009 2:14:56 PM   
Yogi the Great


Posts: 1995
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
Hmmm - Eureka I have it!

New game idea for Matrix - Lee vs. Napoleon

Think of the possible what-if scenarios and campaigns across Europe or the U.S.


And for the loser -----



_____________________________

Hooked Since AH Gettysburg

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 3
RE: Who was greater? The Army of Northern Virginia or t... - 3/31/2009 2:20:13 PM   
terje439


Posts: 6893
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline
Hmm naval battles might not be too good for the CSA then

(in reply to Yogi the Great)
Post #: 4
RE: Who was greater? The Army of Northern Virginia or t... - 3/31/2009 5:34:10 PM   
Jonah


Posts: 190
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline
And imagine Murat's heavy cavalry beating Stuart to bits. Or who would win in a smaller action, Longstreet or Davout?

That would be a neat game, but it should be for severeal great commanders. Like gather the top 24 commanders between 1700 and 1880 and have them fight. Saxe vs. frederick the Great, Cornwallis vs. Grant ect...

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 5
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