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Aircraft Field models? - 3/26/2009 5:29:09 PM   
Misconduct


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One thing that came to mind thinking about AE, have anyone considered the Field upgrade models for various aircraft's? For example we know F3F and F4F are separate aircraft, however certain aircraft in japanese arsenal have upgraded firepower and such. Would it be possible to include all versions? Here's what i'm thinking..

Ki-61-I-Ko was the first production version, pair of 7.7's in the nose and wing mounted 12.7mm's

Later on a definative upgrade could be available to

Ki-61-I-Otsu, 4 x 12.7mm Machine gun upgrades

Granted this all depends how many version were available, and how many airframes you can convert, would this be possible?

Another example would be the American P-47, first version would be the P-47C which would have hardly any ground attack capability. Second upgrade to P-47D/M/N versions.

Just a thought I tried to search the AE forums, but haven't seen any answer on this.

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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/26/2009 5:36:29 PM   
GaryChildress

 

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With 500+ types of aircraft, I would assume AE covers just about every upgrade including replacing the windshield wipers.

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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/26/2009 6:18:16 PM   
Panther Bait


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It probably depends on whether you're talking about true field mods (i.e. modifications made by enterprising field techs from improvised materials) or equipment variations among various production runs of a common airframe with differing armament/armor/etc. (some of which started as particularly valuable field mods).  The second one is probably in, the first may or may not be depending on ubiquitous the field mod was.  Some true field mods were probably so cobbled together that many of the planes in the squadron were a little bit different from each other.

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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/26/2009 6:22:39 PM   
GaryChildress

 

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I'm guessing the answer will be "NO" to makeshift field upgrades but "YES" to anyone who wants to mod those upgrades in the editor, provided they are modded as a productioin aircraft type and not just something Pappy's mechanic tacked onto the wing of a single aircraft one day a long time ago in the Pacific.

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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/26/2009 8:00:18 PM   
Terminus


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Correct. In WitP (of all flavours), aircraft come from centralized sources, and there's no functionality for keeping track of every extra bit of kit bolted on in the field. However, with the plethora of subtypes of individual aircraft available, we believe we've covered the spread well.

As an example, there are 11 different kinds of Hurricane in the game: nine in the RAF versions, one for the Dutch, and one for the RCAF.

< Message edited by Terminus -- 3/26/2009 8:01:51 PM >


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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/26/2009 8:09:23 PM   
spence

 

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quote:

not just something Pappy's mechanic tacked onto the wing


I think the guy who came up with the fieldmod B-25 "gunships" that blew "The Bismarck Sea Convoy" out of the water was known as Pappy.

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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/26/2009 8:14:40 PM   
wdolson

 

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Some common field modifications are available.  For example, the B-25C with extra guns in the nose is included for use with the 5th AF.  The 5th had a modification facility in Australia that did mods for the entire theater, so there was some consistency.  Field mods done by a unit aren't generally in there though. 

The aircraft database is much larger than stock and there is plenty of empty space, so making your own version of the DB will be easy.

Bill


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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/26/2009 8:33:10 PM   
GaryChildress

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

not just something Pappy's mechanic tacked onto the wing


I think the guy who came up with the fieldmod B-25 "gunships" that blew "The Bismarck Sea Convoy" out of the water was known as Pappy.


Funny. I was thinking Pappy Boyington's mechanic.

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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/26/2009 8:37:08 PM   
spence

 

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Pappy Gunn of 5th AF (Chief Engineer or some such...his shops installed the gun packs on the B-25c's)

< Message edited by spence -- 3/26/2009 8:39:30 PM >

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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/26/2009 10:42:26 PM   
wdolson

 

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Pappy Gunn did a number of other innovations.  A-20s were modified to have a fuel tank in part of the bombbay, then the rest was filled with a honeycomb that held a number of anti personell bomblets that were found in a warehouse in Australia.  It made the A-20 a very effective airfield closer.  Drop the bomblets on the runway and nobody will be taking off for a while.

Bill


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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/27/2009 12:46:53 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Some common field modifications are available.  For example, the B-25C with extra guns in the nose is included for use with the 5th AF.  The 5th had a modification facility in Australia that did mods for the entire theater, so there was some consistency.  Field mods done by a unit aren't generally in there though. 

The aircraft database is much larger than stock and there is plenty of empty space, so making your own version of the DB will be easy.

Bill



Well problem with B-25C It not only had a dozen 50's in the nose, but when it did, it did not have a norton Bomb sight. Two versions of B-25C (All gun nose or no gun nose and Bombsite) I was thinking more along the lines of definative upgrades for planes like Ki-61 which have various versions (not field mod kids). It was produced in numbers in various stages. Field mod kits are rather useless to add in AE, simply put if you wanted to add them go for it, however I was thinking version upgrades, example F4u-1, F4u-1D, F4u-1C, F4u-4 etc.
Same for P-47, there are various models to use, I guess after AE comes out I could go back and help model some of the aircraft.

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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/27/2009 1:14:42 AM   
wdolson

 

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There are 5 types of Ki-61, the Corsair includes the F4U-1, -1A, -1D, -2, -4, and F2G.  I'm not sure why the -1C was left out, but it was a variant that only saw limited action.  Seven versions of the Wildcat (only counting USN/USMC service, the FAA versions add another 4).  Thunderbolt has 5 versions, 2 RAF and 3 USAAF.  3 versions of B-29 plus the B-32.

There are probably a few aircraft that could be added here and there, but things are pretty complete now.

Bill


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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/27/2009 2:31:01 AM   
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Is the B25H 75mm gun nose in? I assume we won't see the F2G unless the game goes past the historical end date.

So very excited to see this in person.

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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/27/2009 1:24:20 PM   
wdolson

 

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The USAAF has 7 B-25 models: B, C, C strafer, G, H, J1, and J11.  You also get three versions of the PBJ and many foreign service versions.

Bill


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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/27/2009 1:44:27 PM   
spence

 

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PV-1 with the 3 x .50 cal "chin pack"? Seems it was very very common but I can't find explicit information about a systematic installation.

Perhaps AE has the version with the chin pack and 8 x 5" HVAR rockets. PV-1s and PV-2s from Attu flew missions to Paramushiro and environs in this configuration. My father flew PV-1s with this configuration but also carried 4 depth bombs (looking for U-boats in the Atlantic).

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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/27/2009 2:55:10 PM   
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Well what I am trying to come up with (in ideas) is for example the aircraft must of been deployed by at least a full squadron of 72 aircraft. Now the F4u-1C was a rare bird with 200 built, however I can't find the information readily available, but it was deployed on at least 3 carriers starting in August '43.
What I propose is if the aircraft was deployed with over 72 aircraft, then it should be added or moded later on. Now saying this I don't mean add every Export model or Field model available. It would have to be significiantly used to be added to the game, for example P-47C would be a waste adding to the game, I believe it was sent to europe only (Not entirely sure which model was deployed other then N model). However with half a dozen P-47 models, only 2 would be added for sure.
Only problem I can see with adding B-25H is not only did it have a 1,000 made (Enough to be added in game for sure) but the 75mm gun would have to be used at 100 feet, and secondly an extremely low rate of firing (it was hand re-loaded) meaning probably 1 shot per pass including the 6x500lb's it would carry in the belly. I am sure the designers probably added this, unless the limitations of the game say otherwise.

What I was proposing was not EVERY field modification made, for example the Il-2 sturmovik had close to 100 variations, but add the modifications that were in productions and not field modified, also that were deployed in numbers above 72 to the pacific.

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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/27/2009 6:14:39 PM   
Ron Saueracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Correct. In WitP (of all flavours), aircraft come from centralized sources, and there's no functionality for keeping track of every extra bit of kit bolted on in the field. However, with the plethora of subtypes of individual aircraft available, we believe we've covered the spread well.

As an example, there are 11 different kinds of Hurricane in the game: nine in the RAF versions, one for the Dutch, and one for the RCAF.


None for RIAF? You know, the "Dont eat beef!" guys.


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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/27/2009 7:46:24 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Correct. In WitP (of all flavours), aircraft come from centralized sources, and there's no functionality for keeping track of every extra bit of kit bolted on in the field. However, with the plethora of subtypes of individual aircraft available, we believe we've covered the spread well.

As an example, there are 11 different kinds of Hurricane in the game: nine in the RAF versions, one for the Dutch, and one for the RCAF.


None for RIAF? You know, the "Dont eat beef!" guys.



RAF and RIAF pick their planes from the same list.

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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/27/2009 8:14:34 PM   
m10bob


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Does everybody realize that if we are STILL asking for further inclusions, we are risking the further delay of AE, and a para-drop by some friends of mine in the offenders neighborhood??????




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RE: Aircraft Field models? - 3/27/2009 11:31:13 PM   
wdolson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

Well what I am trying to come up with (in ideas) is for example the aircraft must of been deployed by at least a full squadron of 72 aircraft. Now the F4u-1C was a rare bird with 200 built, however I can't find the information readily available, but it was deployed on at least 3 carriers starting in August '43.
What I propose is if the aircraft was deployed with over 72 aircraft, then it should be added or moded later on. Now saying this I don't mean add every Export model or Field model available. It would have to be significiantly used to be added to the game, for example P-47C would be a waste adding to the game, I believe it was sent to europe only (Not entirely sure which model was deployed other then N model). However with half a dozen P-47 models, only 2 would be added for sure.
Only problem I can see with adding B-25H is not only did it have a 1,000 made (Enough to be added in game for sure) but the 75mm gun would have to be used at 100 feet, and secondly an extremely low rate of firing (it was hand re-loaded) meaning probably 1 shot per pass including the 6x500lb's it would carry in the belly. I am sure the designers probably added this, unless the limitations of the game say otherwise.

What I was proposing was not EVERY field modification made, for example the Il-2 sturmovik had close to 100 variations, but add the modifications that were in productions and not field modified, also that were deployed in numbers above 72 to the pacific.



The P-47D saw service first with the 5th AF in the SWPAC and later in the CBI. The first to arrive were Razorback models with the bubble tops replacing them over time. All three major versions of the P-47 to see combat in the Pacific are included (two versions of the D and the N).

The B-25G and H are in game, as are several other variants.

Units are still limited to one aircraft type. If a variant was never the majority type in a unit, it may not appear in the game. The information on the deployment of the F4U-1C is spotty. I have never seen any information of a unit that fully deployed them.

Bill

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