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Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In The Fu... - 3/25/2009 12:47:47 AM   
Veldor


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So its likely a crappy game, or at least not for me, but the developers of RUSE have managed to capture EXACTLY the style I'd like to see for next-gen computer board wargaming in the trailer for it (unfortuneately the actual game doesn't play that way).

Anyways..You'll have to watch the trailer for yourself to understand what I'm talking about (Board Wargaming meets Computer Wargaming courtesy of something like Minority Report ala Tom Cruise).

Then...Matrix & Developer Friends...Please get right to work on it.

Thanks. Technically this wasn't suppose to "Air" until tommorrow when the website launches..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc4adCmQktA


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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 1:10:12 AM   
V22 Osprey


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To bad wargames aren't really played like that.....but just imagine.....being able to control units thats on a touch screen!

That would be so badass!

Edit:Looked around, found some screenshots and a couple of videos....looks like it shouldnt(but may) need a meaty computer like Supreme Commander.Before I got my new graphics card, SupCom was terrible, I had a decent video card but it ran slow, nothing going on, on lowest settings but I could play company of heroes fine.Hopefully RUSE is detailed yet does not have insane system requirements.Also it looks like its YET ANOTHER WWII game.I was kinda hoping for some Soviet vs. NATO Action.Its gonna have to be really inovative if they're going to bring up WWII again.

< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 3/25/2009 1:43:16 AM >

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 1:45:59 AM   
Barthheart


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That would be a cool way to play.

There's a couple of companies that have the touch screen tables.... just need games for them... eh Eric?!?

But is just me or are those to "nancy boys" just NOT the wargaming types?

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 2:10:44 AM   
rogueusmc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

...But is just me or are those to "nancy boys" just NOT the wargaming types?

I was thinking the same thing...

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 2:46:50 AM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc


quote:

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

...But is just me or are those to "nancy boys" just NOT the wargaming types?

I was thinking the same thing...

quote:


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Same here.

As for the game itself - I didn't find it very attractive. I've grown out of "flashy" strategic/tactical games some time ago (unless it would be a FPP simulation of a low-level commander, of course).

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 3:03:49 AM   
V22 Osprey


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It would've been more exciting if they actually used the touch screen table in the trailer, but since its a regualr game it doesn't look all that great....especially since they are going back to WWII which I think we've seen enough of in RTS games...

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 3:30:52 AM   
Perturabo


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Personally, I don't like the idea of touch screens. I mean, there are touch screens on post office and other weird places and after a while they start looking pretty horrible with greasy fingerprints all over them XD ...
Not to mention that mouse and keyboards is easier to use...


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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 3:35:32 AM   
rogueusmc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

...As for the game itself - I didn't find it very attractive. I've grown out of "flashy" strategic/tactical games some time ago (unless it would be a FPP simulation of a low-level commander, of course).

Something like the Close Combat series would be cool on the touch screens...

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 3:52:32 AM   
06 Maestro


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Looks like playing as God, rather than a commander.

I suppose that there will be some decent application devised for such a system eventually. I am happy with the PC mode-it would be nice if there was greater flexibility and fewer bugs though. No doubt, such a new system will involve a great may "bugs".

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 4:16:16 AM   
Hertston


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If I wanted to wave my arms about like that I'd turn on the Wii!  Seriously, although I can see many uses for touch screens RTS gaming isn't one of them.. in what possible way would that be superior to mouse and keyboard?  And the great unanswered question, of course, how do those guys reach the other side of the table!

I suppose it might be more sociable in a boardgame sort of way.. but then how long before that nice touch screen gets covered in pizza and beer?

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 4:34:07 AM   
Scott_WAR

 

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Make everyone wear latex gloves?

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 4:54:48 AM   
Veldor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

If I wanted to wave my arms about like that I'd turn on the Wii!  Seriously, although I can see many uses for touch screens RTS gaming isn't one of them.. in what possible way would that be superior to mouse and keyboard?  And the great unanswered question, of course, how do those guys reach the other side of the table!

I suppose it might be more sociable in a boardgame sort of way.. but then how long before that nice touch screen gets covered in pizza and beer?



It was not RTS gaming or the graphics displayed that interested me... Rather the device itself and the interface mechanics.

You see I've been complaining about these computer wargames for years. I'm in that camp that justs never happy because they all fail to scratch that itch that board wargaming provides. All the 2D graphics and hexes in the world hasn't solved that... And 3D wonders and semi-RTS systems and such even less so.

So it was somewhat ironic that after searching for so long for something to replace board wargaming it finally occured to me, perhaps out of pure boredom and lack of other choices..in desperation.., to just try boardgaming again...all ranges in fact...and found its actually better than its ever been. Bite my toungue and a little effort later have even found a plethora of local opponents and such. I had bought into, and perpetuated, that boardgaming was dead and/or obsolete when its anything but.

I don't think its appeal is purely social and/or tactile in nature. But to me those who made that video nailed its appeal though they applied it through technology and, unfortuneately, RTS gaming. What I imagine is something akin to Matrix's Lock'n Load game on such a device... with an interface that works as detailed (No not like the post office touch screens...more like the referenced Minority Report movie and not WII like in an arcade way but motion-captured commands for certain functions like scrolling the map) Though partly a large flat table screen like that shows much more of a battlefield not unlike a board wargame.

So we could have REAL computerized board wargames with such a setup. A truly "modern" board wargaming experience.

Anyway the vision appealed to me so I thought I'd share.. I'm passing on the game itself.

PS. One other thought is towards how such a setup (Already mentioned to not really be all that far off) perhaps solves the greatest challenge today facing computer wargames... An A.I. opponent. Interesting to me is how if you change the computing device and interface significantly enough (such as in the video).. it becomes far more natural and enticing to play Face to Face, just as in the video...and just as in board wargaming..

Suddenly the need for an A.I. drops sharply. Something no doubt Matrix or any other computer wargame company would no doubt welcome.

I'm thrilled that I'm still young enough that I'll see just that kind of PC type gaming table actually materialize. Lets all hope its sooner rather than later and that Matrix is still around to make games for it...



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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 9:22:04 AM   
JudgeDredd


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Cute and interesting, but I think would rather cut my finger ends off and force myself to eat pickled onions without a fork.

Also, it seems there is this drive again for no AI. Unfortunately, although I wouldn't regard myself as a social leper, I do not have any wargaming friends. Such a system would be useless for me.

I would agree in so much as you take away the board, the pieces and the box and stick them on a chip and you have a boardgame computerised...but again, isn't that pretty much what we have with computer games now? Computerised boardgames?

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 9:33:51 AM   
cantona2


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Very attractive BUT less Tigers on the beaches and  more realism, then i can kiss whats left of my life goodbye!

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 4:01:54 PM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Also, it seems there is this drive again for no AI. Unfortunately, although I wouldn't regard myself as a social leper, I do not have any wargaming friends. Such a system would be useless for me.

Same here.

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 4:53:01 PM   
undercovergeek

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo


quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Also, it seems there is this drive again for no AI. Unfortunately, although I wouldn't regard myself as a social leper, I do not have any wargaming friends. Such a system would be useless for me.

Same here.


this is what PBEM is for - your wargaming friend can be 6000 miles away - in fact mine is, no need to be at the same table, no need to wear snazzy suits either!!

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 4:53:39 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Can't say as I agree, Veldor.

What I saw was pretty much an interface that would work for your typical RTS, with limited numbers of units and a focus on unit micro-management to activate powers or send in reinforcements. From an interface standpoint, it would work for a subset of wargames, but for larger wargames the turn-based structure is really necessary to have time to actually do everything you should be able to do and even within a more real-time structure, existing interfaces like Panther's make management just as easy. Within a turn-based structure, I don't see this interface adding anything beyond what current interfaces can do.

Touch screens and all that are fun, but I don't see it as a fundamentally better interface for wargaming, just different. Very cool for RTS-style games though, especially as the "Ruse" basically depended on very limited line of sight, just like RTS games have. :-)

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 6:58:03 PM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek


quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo


quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Also, it seems there is this drive again for no AI. Unfortunately, although I wouldn't regard myself as a social leper, I do not have any wargaming friends. Such a system would be useless for me.

Same here.


this is what PBEM is for - your wargaming friend can be 6000 miles away - in fact mine is, no need to be at the same table, no need to wear snazzy suits either!!

Strangely enough I find PBEM very sterile and not fluid enough to enjoy. When I'm gaming, I like to game on THAT game. I don't want to do a turn and walk away. I've never picked up a piece in a chess game and moved it in the morning on the way out the house and looked and moved another piece on the way in...broken gaming isn't what I like...and that is what PBEM is for me.

I would welcome hot seat and truly love the idea of playing boardgames, but unfortunately not knowing anyone near me with similar interests just doesn't give me the option to dismiss AI.

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 7:25:19 PM   
06 Maestro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
Strangely enough I find PBEM very sterile and not fluid enough to enjoy. When I'm gaming, I like to game on THAT game. I don't want to do a turn and walk away. I've never picked up a piece in a chess game and moved it in the morning on the way out the house and looked and moved another piece on the way in...broken gaming isn't what I like...and that is what PBEM is for me.

I would welcome hot seat and truly love the idea of playing boardgames, but unfortunately not knowing anyone near me with similar interests just doesn't give me the option to dismiss AI.


So Judge, when was the last time you played a game of CotA online?

It is tough resuming large games-(especially if you have more than one same scenario game) after waiting a week or so for a reply in the mail. situation. PBEM is convenient for sure, but there are drawbacks.

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 7:28:05 PM   
JudgeDredd


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Well I didn't mean to single out PBEM.

Online strategy gaming isn't for me be it PBEM or real time.

Funny thing is, I wouldn't mind sitting down at a table with an opponent for 3 or 4 hours for a board game...but I think it's probably the interaction that makes that accessible for me.

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 7:33:44 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

But is just me or are those to "nancy boys" just NOT the wargaming types?




Yep, those two tripped the ghey alarm. Those were NOT your average wargamer.

As for the game itself, at least it appeared to be turn based.



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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 8:47:48 PM   
Perturabo


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This video looked like they had a bet - who loses is on the bottom.

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 9:08:42 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc


quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

...As for the game itself - I didn't find it very attractive. I've grown out of "flashy" strategic/tactical games some time ago (unless it would be a FPP simulation of a low-level commander, of course).

Something like the Close Combat series would be cool on the touch screens...

Or how about Rules of Engagement or Starfleet Command. In Star Treks touch sensitive insturments are the way to control starship

[edit]
Nice strategy from attacking side: first fake attack, which makes defender commit & reveal its assets, then the real attack.

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/25/2009 11:22:16 PM   
undercovergeek

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Well I didn't mean to single out PBEM.

Online strategy gaming isn't for me be it PBEM or real time.

Funny thing is, I wouldn't mind sitting down at a table with an opponent for 3 or 4 hours for a board game...but I think it's probably the interaction that makes that accessible for me.


JDs house of gaming??? little shop on the high street - comfy sofas - fresh coffee, fridge of beers, gaming tables - pat your wife goodbye as she goes to do the shopping, husband sits his ass down for some gaming till its time to go home - same time next week? you betcha!! i can even see the advert!!!

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/26/2009 12:42:07 AM   
Veldor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Can't say as I agree, Veldor.

What I saw was pretty much an interface that would work for your typical RTS, with limited numbers of units and a focus on unit micro-management to activate powers or send in reinforcements. From an interface standpoint, it would work for a subset of wargames, but for larger wargames the turn-based structure is really necessary to have time to actually do everything you should be able to do and even within a more real-time structure, existing interfaces like Panther's make management just as easy. Within a turn-based structure, I don't see this interface adding anything beyond what current interfaces can do.

Touch screens and all that are fun, but I don't see it as a fundamentally better interface for wargaming, just different. Very cool for RTS-style games though, especially as the "Ruse" basically depended on very limited line of sight, just like RTS games have. :-)



Right. Can't say I disagree.. but you did ignore the "Minority Report" angle I mentioned. What I would envision would be more of a hybrid of the two. If you remember the movie (or see it) that interface is more of an information management style. One strength and difference to computer wargames is that depth of information and the complexity (and time involved) in maneuvering through the information and/or submitting commands. Some creative thinking is needed here outside of just looking at the EXACT way things are shown.

I remember when people thought mouses were clumsy.. some still prefer keyboard shortcutting (Though I'll always argue thats only because of a poor mouse interface). There is a lot on the horizon and/or already here in the way of voice commands, motion capture commands, touchscreen etc.

Surely there is room for improvement on current computer wargames using some combination of all of the above. No I wouldn't suggest anyone necessarily try to do that now.. But if its to be stated such a thing is never needed then I'd fear PC wargames will only end up even more behind the curve than many find them already to be.

As for others comments towards the uselessness of a PC gaming table due to lack of live opponents... I did also address that partly in that the (hope) would be the existance of such a device would in turn generate popularity and a change in culture around how, when, and who might play. Not unlike boardgaming was a couple decades back. Pretty much every expert agrees our whole culture is too zoned out and socially inept. Whether I agree with that or not I can't see it hurting to have computing devices that make people actually WANT to get together and physically play something.

And as for meeting people what I've found is its like we are all standing in the middle of the same huge room... All to afraid to ask the guy next to us if he'd like to play a game. Easier to just pull a PSP from our pocket and all play alone rather than speak up.

When I started REALLY looking for opponents.. And I mean REALLY trying for boardgames, wargames, PC wargames etc. I found so many I now feel bad how many requests I have to turn down to play this or that...




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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/26/2009 1:01:26 AM   
Perturabo


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There already is such device. It's called "a kitchen/gaming store table with terrain and miniatures on it".

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/26/2009 1:55:04 AM   
dogancan

 

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I hope wargames will NOT be played  in the future by ordering your tanks to form a line on the beach as a defence! 



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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/26/2009 3:37:51 AM   
killroyishere

 

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I'm more looking for voice activation wargames in the future than hands on have to touch the screen or move and click the mouse. I can imagine a real time wargame with voice activation like giving orders the way to go in the future. Sort of like the Panther games, but, with voice instead of mouse.

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/26/2009 4:31:04 AM   
rogueusmc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

I'm more looking for voice activation wargames in the future than hands on have to touch the screen or move and click the mouse. I can imagine a real time wargame with voice activation like giving orders the way to go in the future. Sort of like the Panther games, but, with voice instead of mouse.

I have Tom Clancy's EndWar on the 360...it uses voice activated units. It is really cool.

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/26/2009 3:23:26 PM   
105mm Howitzer


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Oh great, as if I dedn't feel bad enough when I lost Capt. Harder to that hidden Russian HMG in Squad Leader, now here comes another reason to sympathize with my "little people"
I guess the human wave attack's out of the question now...

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