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"historical" first turn - 3/13/2009 12:23:02 AM   
sven6345789

 

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will there still be an automated "historical" first turn?

In Stock, there was also a possibility to turn on a variable historical turn, simulating various levels of archieving surprise by the japanese and different allied strategies implemented.
Will that one be in still?

I always liked the "historical" turn because it stopped the japanese player from using the first turn surprise movement bonus to teleport half of his navy across the map. If i got it right, the movement bonus will now only be available to certain taskforces. can you choose which? how do you recognize them?

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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/13/2009 2:05:34 AM   
jwilkerson


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There are now (in AE) two levels of switch settings in the editor to enable modders to control which TFs get the "magic move" and at the highest level one scenario switch to determine whether the magic move is enabled at all for the scenario.

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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/13/2009 9:59:49 AM   
Kaletsch2007

 

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So, that means the "magic move" for all TF's is still in there, but you can switch it of ?
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

There are now (in AE) two levels of switch settings in the editor to enable modders to control which TFs get the "magic move" and at the highest level one scenario switch to determine whether the magic move is enabled at all for the scenario.


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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/13/2009 10:36:48 AM   
Andy Mac

 

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In Scen1 one I think about 10 TF's have the magic move all others don't

1. It is entirely up to you if you want to go into the editor and enable magic move for all TF's it takes about 1 minute to do

2. Alternatively you can disable for all TF's by the same method only it would take 30 seconds

To speed up 2. there is a switch on the options screen to disable it for all TF's

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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/13/2009 10:59:29 AM   
Kaletsch2007

 

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Thanks Andy,
I guess Scen1 would be the "historical" one.
The 10 TF's, that come into my mind would be: KB(to PH), AO's for KB, 2 x invasion Malaya, 2 x invasion PI (north), invasion PI (south), ??

Am I correct ?

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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/13/2009 11:14:34 AM   
treespider


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaletsch2007

Thanks Andy,
I guess Scen1 would be the "historical" one.
The 10 TF's, that come into my mind would be: KB(to PH), AO's for KB, 2 x invasion Malaya, 2 x invasion PI (north), invasion PI (south), ??

Am I correct ?



Almost...with the exception of the Phillippine islands which do not receive the benefit. The Malaya Invasion TF's encompass 5 locations and have several cover forces.

< Message edited by treespider -- 3/13/2009 12:56:45 PM >


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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/13/2009 12:02:24 PM   
aciddrinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaletsch2007

Thanks Andy,
I guess Scen1 would be the "historical" one.
The 10 TF's, that come into my mind would be: KB(to PH), AO's for KB, 2 x invasion Malaya, 2 x invasion PI (north), invasion PI (south), ??

Am I correct ?



Almost...with the exception of the Phillippine islands which do not receive the benefit. The Malaya Invasion TF's encompass 4 locations and have several cover forces.


Good to see that no 'magic move' for TF heading to Phillippines.
Historical dates of landings:
8 December: Batan
10 December: Vigan, Aparri, Cominquin
12 December: Legaspi
20 December: Davo
24 December: Jolo




< Message edited by aciddrinker -- 3/13/2009 12:05:20 PM >


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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/13/2009 12:37:04 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaletsch2007

Thanks Andy,
I guess Scen1 would be the "historical" one.
The 10 TF's, that come into my mind would be: KB(to PH), AO's for KB, 2 x invasion Malaya, 2 x invasion PI (north), invasion PI (south), ??

Am I correct ?



Almost...with the exception of the Phillippine islands which do not receive the benefit. The Malaya Invasion TF's encompass 4 locations and have several cover forces.


And the DD bombardment of Midway is 1 of the 10 (2 DDs).

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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/13/2009 1:11:17 PM   
Kaletsch2007

 

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Tx a lot to all responding.
Last ones on that topic (from my side)
Firstly, how can they be identified (is it written in the manual), are these the first 10 TF's ?
Secondly, can we still change the consistensy (of these 10 TF's) during the first turn, without loosing the 1st turn-surprise-warpspeed ?

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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/13/2009 2:54:37 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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1 good quesiton
2. yes i think not something I have tested

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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/13/2009 4:59:54 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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Well they arent the "first 10 TFs" The 4 TFs that start at Etotfu for example (which all get "warp speed") are TFs 1, 2, 140, and 141.

And they seem to be tied to just the TFs that are designated. I took TF 2 (replentishment TF with a bunch of AOs and 2 DDs) and merged it into 140 (also a replentishment TF) and 141 (a bombardment TF) and created a new TF 2 in Hiroshima as a bombarment TF headed to Wenchow and after the turn TF 2 had only moved 4 hexes from home port.

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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/13/2009 6:05:36 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Yeah may need to think about this one I will take a look at the names for the next build to make it more obvious

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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/13/2009 7:49:17 PM   
sven6345789

 

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thanks for the answers. so the automated turn is no longer needed (unless you start to edit of course)

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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/14/2009 11:51:38 AM   
Kaletsch2007

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Well they arent the "first 10 TFs" The 4 TFs that start at Etotfu for example (which all get "warp speed") are TFs 1, 2, 140, and 141.

And they seem to be tied to just the TFs that are designated. I took TF 2 (replentishment TF with a bunch of AOs and 2 DDs) and merged it into 140 (also a replentishment TF) and 141 (a bombardment TF) and created a new TF 2 in Hiroshima as a bombarment TF headed to Wenchow and after the turn TF 2 had only moved 4 hexes from home port.



Say, i want to invade in southern Malaya instead of northern. So i need more firepower within my surfacecombat TF to protect it.
Did you ever change the build up of one of these TF´s in that way ? What happend ?

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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/14/2009 2:28:06 PM   
aciddrinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaletsch2007


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Well they arent the "first 10 TFs" The 4 TFs that start at Etotfu for example (which all get "warp speed") are TFs 1, 2, 140, and 141.

And they seem to be tied to just the TFs that are designated. I took TF 2 (replentishment TF with a bunch of AOs and 2 DDs) and merged it into 140 (also a replentishment TF) and 141 (a bombardment TF) and created a new TF 2 in Hiroshima as a bombarment TF headed to Wenchow and after the turn TF 2 had only moved 4 hexes from home port.



Say, i want to invade in southern Malaya instead of northern. So i need more firepower within my surfacecombat TF to protect it.
Did you ever change the build up of one of these TF´s in that way ? What happend ?


so u need to do this like it was in history. land after few days of war.

< Message edited by aciddrinker -- 3/14/2009 2:41:32 PM >


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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/14/2009 2:49:19 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaletsch2007


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Well they arent the "first 10 TFs" The 4 TFs that start at Etotfu for example (which all get "warp speed") are TFs 1, 2, 140, and 141.

And they seem to be tied to just the TFs that are designated. I took TF 2 (replentishment TF with a bunch of AOs and 2 DDs) and merged it into 140 (also a replentishment TF) and 141 (a bombardment TF) and created a new TF 2 in Hiroshima as a bombarment TF headed to Wenchow and after the turn TF 2 had only moved 4 hexes from home port.



Say, i want to invade in southern Malaya instead of northern. So i need more firepower within my surfacecombat TF to protect it.
Did you ever change the build up of one of these TF´s in that way ? What happend ?


I havent done extensive testing on this. In fact I tried it once to see what would happen. TF 85 carries the 56th rgt of the 18th div to Kota Bharu. So just for an experiment I merged TF 125 (which has the bulk of the remainder of the 18th div) into it and sent it to Mersing. The following is the result:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 07, 41

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Mersing at 52,82, Range 26,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E7K2 Alf: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CL Sendai, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
DD Isonami, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
DD Uranami, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Shikinami, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Ayanami, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
DMS W-2, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
DMS W-3
PB Tatsumiya Maru, Shell hits 5, and is sunk
SC Ch 7
SC Ch 9, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
AK Sakura Maru
AK Sasako Maru
xAK Ayatosan Maru
xAK Asakasan Maru
xAK Awajisan Maru
xAK Ayato Maru
xAK Chihaya Maru, Shell hits 1, heavy fires
xAK Enju Maru
xAK Hokko Maru, Shell hits 1
xAK Hokuriku Maru
xAK Kisogawa Maru
xAK Kiyozumi Maru
xAK Kuroshio Maru
xAKL Meiko Maru
xAKL Kashi Maru
xAKL Kasui Maru
xAKL Tatibana Maru, Shell hits 1
xAKL Tatebu Maru
xAKL Matsutan Maru, Shell hits 2
xAKL Nittatsu Maru
xAP Brazil Maru, Shell hits 1
xAP Koan Maru
xAP Huso Maru

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Shell hits 8
BC Repulse, Shell hits 3
DD Vampire, Shell hits 6, heavy fires
DD Tenedos, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Electra, Shell hits 2
DD Express, Shell hits 12, heavy fires, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
96 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 3 disabled



Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards
Range closes to 28,000 yards...
Range closes to 26,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 26,000 yards
Allies open fire on surprised Japanese ships at 26,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales fires at CL Sendai at 26,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales fires at DD Ayanami at 26,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales fires at PB Tatsumiya Maru at 26,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages CL Sendai at 26,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CL Sendai at 26,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Uranami at 26,000 yards
Range closes to 23,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages CL Sendai at 23,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Ayanami at 23,000 yards
Range closes to 20,000 yards
BC Repulse engages DD Ayanami at 20,000 yards
DD Uranami engages DD Express at 20,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Express at 20,000 yards
DD Ayanami engages DD Vampire at 20,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages xAK Hokko Maru at 20,000 yards
Range closes to 18,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages CL Sendai at 18,000 yards
BC Repulse engages DD Uranami at 18,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Ayanami at 18,000 yards
BC Repulse engages DD Uranami at 18,000 yards
DD Vampire engages PB Tatsumiya Maru at 18,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages xAK Enju Maru at 18,000 yards
Range closes to 15,000 yards
CL Sendai sunk by BC Repulse at 15,000 yards
DD Ayanami engages DD Vampire at 15,000 yards
DD Uranami engages DD Express at 15,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Uranami at 15,000 yards
DD Uranami engages DD Tenedos at 15,000 yards
DD Ayanami engages DD Vampire at 15,000 yards
DMS W-2 sunk by BB Prince of Wales at 15,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards
DD Tenedos sunk by DD Shikinami at 11,000 yards
DD Uranami sunk by DD Express at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Ayanami at 8,000 yards
DD Shikinami engages BC Repulse at 8,000 yards
DD Ayanami engages DD Express at 8,000 yards
DD Electra engages PB Tatsumiya Maru at 8,000 yards
DD Vampire engages xAK Hokko Maru at 8,000 yards
DD Express engages xAKL Matsutan Maru at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Ayanami at 10,000 yards
DD Shikinami engages DD Vampire at 10,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Shikinami at 10,000 yards
BC Repulse engages PB Tatsumiya Maru at 10,000 yards
DD Vampire engages SC Ch 9 at 10,000 yards
DD Express engages xAK Chihaya Maru at 10,000 yards
BC Repulse engages xAKL Kasui Maru at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
DD Ayanami engages DD Vampire at 9,000 yards
BC Repulse engages DD Ayanami at 9,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Express at 9,000 yards
DD Electra engages DD Ayanami at 9,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Vampire at 9,000 yards
DD Electra engages AK Sasako Maru at 9,000 yards
BC Repulse engages xAP Brazil Maru at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Ayanami at 10,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Shikinami at 10,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Isonami at 10,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages PB Tatsumiya Maru at 10,000 yards
BC Repulse engages SC Ch 9 at 10,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
DD Ayanami sunk by BB Prince of Wales at 11,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Shikinami at 11,000 yards
DD Electra engages DD Isonami at 11,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages PB Tatsumiya Maru at 11,000 yards
BC Repulse engages AK Sakura Maru at 11,000 yards
BC Repulse engages xAK Kisogawa Maru at 11,000 yards
DD Electra engages xAKL Tatibana Maru at 11,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Electra at 11,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Express at 11,000 yards
DD Electra engages DD Shikinami at 11,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Vampire at 11,000 yards
DD Electra engages xAK Hokko Maru at 11,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
AK Sasako Maru , AK Sakura Maru , xAP Huso Maru ,
xAP Koan Maru , xAP Brazil Maru , xAK Kuroshio Maru ,
xAK Kiyozumi Maru , xAK Kisogawa Maru , xAK Hokuriku Maru ,
xAK Hokko Maru , xAK Enju Maru screened from combat
DD Isonami sunk by BB Prince of Wales at 12,000 yards
PB Tatsumiya Maru sunk by BC Repulse at 12,000 yards
DD Shikinami engages DD Vampire at 12,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DMS W-3 at 12,000 yards
Phillips, T.S.V. orders Allied TF to disengage
Range closes to 11,000 yards
AK Sasako Maru screened from combat
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Shikinami at 11,000 yards
SC Ch 9 sunk by BC Repulse at 11,000 yards
DD Shikinami engages DD Express at 11,000 yards
BC Repulse engages DMS W-3 at 11,000 yards
DD Vampire engages AK Sakura Maru at 11,000 yards
DD Vampire engages xAK Asakasan Maru at 11,000 yards
Range increases to 15,000 yards
AK Sasako Maru , AK Sakura Maru , xAP Huso Maru screened from combat
DD Vampire engages DD Shikinami at 15,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DMS W-3 at 15,000 yards
DD Electra engages DD Shikinami at 15,000 yards
DD Vampire engages xAP Brazil Maru at 15,000 yards
DD Electra engages xAKL Matsutan Maru at 15,000 yards
Range increases to 19,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Shikinami at 19,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Shikinami at 19,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages AK Sasako Maru at 19,000 yards
DD Shikinami engages DD Vampire at 19,000 yards
Range increases to 21,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages xAP Brazil Maru at 21,000 yards
BC Repulse engages SC Ch 7 at 21,000 yards
Range increases to 23,000 yards
Range increases to 26,000 yards
AK Sasako Maru , AK Sakura Maru , xAP Huso Maru ,
xAP Koan Maru , xAP Brazil Maru , xAK Kuroshio Maru ,
xAK Kiyozumi Maru , xAK Kisogawa Maru , xAK Hokuriku Maru ,
xAK Hokko Maru , xAK Enju Maru , xAK Chihaya Maru ,
xAK Ayato Maru , xAK Awajisan Maru , xAK Asakasan Maru ,
xAK Ayatosan Maru , xAKL Nittatsu Maru , xAKL Matsutan Maru ,
xAKL Tatebu Maru , xAKL Tatibana Maru , xAKL Kasui Maru screened from combat
- escorted by DD Shikinami , SC Ch 7
BC Repulse engages xAKL Kashi Maru at 26,000 yards
Range increases to 27,000 yards
AK Sasako Maru , AK Sakura Maru screened from combat
BC Repulse engages SC Ch 7 at 27,000 yards
BC Repulse engages xAK Hokuriku Maru at 27,000 yards
Range increases to 30,000 yards
AK Sasako Maru , AK Sakura Maru , xAP Huso Maru ,
xAP Koan Maru , xAP Brazil Maru , xAK Kuroshio Maru ,
xAK Kiyozumi Maru , xAK Kisogawa Maru , xAK Hokuriku Maru ,
xAK Hokko Maru , xAK Enju Maru , xAK Chihaya Maru ,
xAK Ayato Maru , xAK Awajisan Maru , xAK Asakasan Maru ,
xAK Ayatosan Maru , xAKL Nittatsu Maru , xAKL Matsutan Maru ,
xAKL Tatebu Maru screened from combat
- escorted by DD Shikinami
BC Repulse engages DMS W-3 at 30,000 yards
BC Repulse engages xAKL Meiko Maru at 30,000 yards
Task forces break off...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 51,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Allied aircraft
Blenheim I x 4
Buffalo I x 9
Swordfish I x 5
Hudson I x 4


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
xAP Huso Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Asakasan Maru
xAK Kiyozumi Maru
xAK Ayatosan Maru, Torpedo hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
35 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Hudson I bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
4 x Blenheim I bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
5 x Swordfish I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo

Raid spotted at 12 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 51,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Allied aircraft
Vildebeest III x 11


Allied aircraft losses
Vildebeest III: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAK Chihaya Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAKL Nittatsu Maru
xAK Hokko Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
xAP Huso Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
24 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)



Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Vildebeest III launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo
9 x Vildebeest III launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo

Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 51,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Allied aircraft
Wirraway x 4


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
xAK Kisogawa Maru



Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Wirraway bombing from 15000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 100 lb GP Bomb

Raid spotted at 29 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Mersing

10 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
SC Ch 7

Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



SC Ch 7 firing at enemy troops
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious TF 85 offshore of Mersing
Coastal Guns at Mersing ( 51,82 ) drive off TF 85


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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/14/2009 3:16:35 PM   
Q-Ball


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That makes sense, and why the Japanese didn't land down there: Force Z would be able to cream the invasion before IJN air could intervene. Landing further up the coast...well, we know how that worked for Force Z.

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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/14/2009 3:33:27 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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Japs landing further south of Kota Bharu they are going to take losses if nothing else from torpedo planes. Force Z can intercept anything from Kuantan south.

Lightning strikes to Rabul, Kendari, even Wake arent happening in stock AE. you will be severely limited as to what you can hit with what. In looking at it it SEEMS there are 5 landing forces that get the "warp speed" bonus. 3 of these are in Saigon and the 3 combined carry a single regiment (and thats all there is there loaded). The other 2 are at Samah where the bulk of the 5th and 18th divisions are. But of course from there the places they could potentially land are limited at best.

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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/14/2009 4:07:01 PM   
m10bob


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Not sharpshooting here, I really don't know..Is there any way of knowing if that single Alf was destroyed on the ship, and if not, did it contribute in any way to searching for the Allied ships?

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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/14/2009 4:46:18 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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Well considering it was lost in a ship to ship engagement, yes. Its loss was because the CL it was on was sunk.

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RE: "historical" first turn - 3/14/2009 6:15:29 PM   
m10bob


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BTW, nice narrative!..Thank you.

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