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The Grognard Effect

 
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The Grognard Effect - 2/16/2009 5:00:27 PM   
Lützow


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Not that I would share the author's pov in any way, yet found this article interesting:

quote:

War games were one of the first games developed for early personal computers. Translating complex paper rules to the computer made a lot of the tedious bookkeeping easy. But as PCs became more sophisticated, war games once again became complex. For every accessible title like Panzer General, there were several complex games, epitomized by Gary Grigsby's War in the Pacific. The Grognard effect struck again.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2340598,00.asp
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RE: The Grognard Effect - 2/16/2009 5:07:31 PM   
cdbeck


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There was a pretty interesting talk about this over at the Wargamer.com forum.

Most of us came to the consensus that the very premise of the article was flawed, and that the argument had large holes in it by comparing genres that cannot be compared or by lumping all wargames into a general and undefined progression of "classic and easy" to "grognard and unpopular." It just doesn't hold up. And interesting academic exercise, but the article is so rife with illogical comparisons that is makes it difficult to discuss properly.

SoM


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RE: The Grognard Effect - 2/16/2009 5:36:30 PM   
jagdwolf

 

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Agreed, just read the article and that author is really all over the place. I disagree completely with a number of his ideas and comparisons.

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RE: The Grognard Effect - 2/16/2009 11:01:09 PM   
Lützow


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I will praise the day when mainstream publishers like EA finally abandon the pc for the benefit of console market, because they consider it as not remunerative anymore. So this gap could be filled again by small studios and dev's, who need to earn their living but don't have to care about shareholder value.

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RE: The Grognard Effect - 2/16/2009 11:46:19 PM   
madgamer2

 

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I think just the opposite as you. To me it would be a sad day when the computer game is gone. I tired of the constant stream of new model sthat were not backward compatible with your old model.
The fault of the complex game is not in the computer but in the design community, because there are always going to be some who want to push the envelope to the max.
The game console has its place but not for me. I tire of the endless FPS games that look good but under the skin are basically the same.
The market share for computer games such as Matrix is not large, indeed dcomputer games in general are lower tha n titles for the console. I use my computer for other things but find it much more versitile than any game console but for those who love them so be it. By the same let us who like computers love them as well.
I have some friends that have kids and I gabve one a copy of Oblivion but it was not the same experience for me but to each his own.

Madgamer

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RE: The Grognard Effect - 2/17/2009 12:09:31 AM   
hadberz


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The whole article is flawed. Dumb down strategy games are not wargames. The Wii is a novelty, I have one too and it collects dust. My kids don't even play it. They do play the crap out of the Xbox 360. The Sims sells like hot cakes cause it's doll house on the computer. 

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RE: The Grognard Effect - 2/17/2009 4:25:27 AM   
ilovestrategy


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I cannot agree with that article and to be honest I am dubious on whether he knows what he is talking about.

Seriously, how many games are deep like Uncommon Valour or War in the Pacific?

Heck, I would say a lot of strategy games are casual, like Rome Total War and Hearts of Iron II.

Not very many.

And he called Fallout 3 a grognard game? I have it and I can testify that it's a very casual game.

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After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
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RE: The Grognard Effect - 2/17/2009 5:12:52 AM   
Grell

 

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He clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.

Regards,

Grell

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RE: The Grognard Effect - 2/17/2009 9:17:25 AM   
m10bob


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"Those people over at SATURDAY EVENING POST don't know anything more about fighting, than they do about fornicating.".................G.S.Patton, Jr.

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RE: The Grognard Effect - 2/17/2009 11:00:55 AM   
PunkReaper


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quote:

"Those people over at SATURDAY EVENING POST don't know anything more about fighting, than they do about fornicating.".................G.S.Patton, Jr.


Just watched the film Patton yesterday. What a great film and a great if not strange guy. Didn't realise he died in 1945 though... especially after all he'd been through.

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RE: The Grognard Effect - 2/18/2009 11:51:46 AM   
Kuokkanen

 

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quote:


I will praise the day when mainstream publishers like EA finally abandon the pc for the benefit of console market, because they consider it as not remunerative anymore. So this gap could be filled again by small studios and dev's, who need to earn their living but don't have to care about shareholder value.

If that is to ever happen, there many candidates to take place of the big one. Blizzard and Valve are first that come to mind...


quote:


Heck, I would say a lot of strategy games are casual, like Rome Total War and Hearts of Iron II.

Not as casual as Command & Conquer serie

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RE: The Grognard Effect - 2/18/2009 8:52:56 PM   
105mm Howitzer


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Old generation vs new gen ? Today's gen might interpret FPS as we once considered deep games such as HTTR or EF II. I think it's all a matter of interpretation. And let's face it, you're right when you say they're aren't many mainstream serious wargames for the PC/console market out there.

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RE: The Grognard Effect - 2/19/2009 4:27:34 PM   
ilovestrategy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

"Those people over at SATURDAY EVENING POST don't know anything more about fighting, than they do about fornicating.".................G.S.Patton, Jr.



You sir, are my hero!

_____________________________

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

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RE: The Grognard Effect - 2/20/2009 1:48:55 AM   
PunkReaper


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May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr

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