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CTF - 1/21/2009 5:40:05 PM   
Krec


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what is the optimum size and also composition of a carrier task force. ie 2 carriers/2cl/10d ? please advise. looking for opinions.

Krec

_____________________________

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." Patton

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RE: CTF - 1/21/2009 5:59:39 PM   
xj900uk

 

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There's no minimum requirement, although USN doctrine was that a minimum of 6 destroyers' or destroyer escorts were needed per carrier to cover ASW operations. However this was not always observed in battle, and also destroyers that were sunk or had to drop out through damage in a taskforce were sometimes not replaced.
Also as the war wore on, particularly when Kamikaze's became more of a menace than subs, the doctrine was not bothered with

(in reply to Krec)
Post #: 2
RE: CTF - 1/21/2009 6:42:49 PM   
radar


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I like to utilize DDs as fast transport, especially as the U.S. player early an a game. Because of this policy, I will only add 3 or 4 DDs to a 2 CV TF. But I am sure to have 4 or 5 crusiers in the TF as well.

(in reply to Krec)
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RE: CTF - 1/22/2009 3:47:30 AM   
borner


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after 15 ships AA factors are reduced. As the US I used to make 15 ship Carrier TF's with on CV each, as the AA would tear apart the attackers and leave many unscratched. However, the more TF's you have, the better the chance one breaks ranks and goes off on it's own, and gets killed.

(in reply to radar)
Post #: 4
RE: CTF - 1/22/2009 7:24:20 PM   
a1981stingray

 

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I usually play as the Allies in scenario 17 or 19.

It is not the total number of ships in a TF, but the quality of the ships' mounted equipment that really determines the effectiveness of defending the TF from enemy aircraft.

SELECTION COMMITTEE:
When I start putting together a CV TF, I will have one, and only 1 carrier per CV TF. I will then look at every available escort CA, CL, CLAA, DD, etc to determine which ship(s) or class(es) have the best AA, plus number of mounts on each escort, then I add it to the TF.

The minimum mounted equipment the escorts must have available are Oerlikon 20mm, Oerlikon 30mm twin, 25mm AAA, 20mm Bofors, or 40mm Bofors. Also note, the number of mounts (x?) and location on ship (Front, Center, R. side, L. side, Rear). So there might be an Oerlikon 20mm (x1) Front, Bofors (x2) Right side, Bofors (x2) Left side, and 25mm AAA (x1) Rear.

In addition to having the right equipment, is the effective range of that equipment. Similar to radar, with greater effective range, versus the mark one eyeball.

It is a tradeoff : add an escort ship that only has (x2) 40mm Bofors versus a ship that has (x4) Oerlikon 20mm. Oerlikons have less effective range than the Bofors.

Does having (x4) of mounted equipment, with less effective range, equal a better chance of hitting more enemy planes? OR

Does having (x2) of higher quality equipment, with greater effective range, equal a better chance of knocking down enemy planes?

I prefer to have ships with the best equipment to engage the enemy aircraft at the farthest range possible. Similar to having a CV Fighter CAP engage the enemy aircraft farthest from the carrier task force. Always have the best CV fighter squadrons, with Aces, placed on your carriers...

MOST IMPORTANT:
The Primary Task Force, that will be engaging enemy CV TF(s) or moving within range of enemy LBA, will  have escorts with 40mm Bofors in the CV TF. No escort ships will be placed in the CV TF if it does not have those specified defenses. This is asking for an enemy TBD to put a fish in the side of your best carrier if you defend it with poorly equipped ships, even if you have the max number of ships available.

OPERATIONAL STATUS:
I will always keep my CV TF at 1 Carrier and 11 escorts. I will rotate my CV TF(s) on a regular basis to reduce total system and flotation damages.

For example:
I have CV TF 201 and CV TF 202 with 12 ships each.
I will send CV TF 201 towards Port Moresby and CV TF 202 towards Lunga.
I have the other 2 carriers and escorts disbanded in port (Noumea/Brisbane) being repaired.

As CV TF 201 and CV TF 202 start their return trip back to Noumea and Brisbane, I will form CV TF 203 and CV TF 204 to start their outbound run.


This strategy provides continual and operational CV TF(s).

I have noticed other players who group all their carriers into several TF(s), moving them around together like the Death Star. With one big Clash of the Titans, with all the carriers badly damaged, sunk, or hopefully retired back to Pearl. Some survivors may get repaired and released before the game ends. This loss of CV TF(s) greatly affects the players capabilities of launching offensive strikes or invasions of enemy bases. The waiting game for more operational carriers to enter the theater becomes monotonous.

LESS EFFECTIVE ESCORT SHIPS:
For those ships that do not get added to a CV TF, I will use as Fast Transport TF(s), or I will send them back to Pearl to get a refit in June/July. Hopefully I receive additional escort ships in return that have more endurance, 40mm Bofors, 20mm Bofors, and with numerous mounted locations and radar.

Looking at the list of available ships and their release dates, I have planned several times to send ships back to Pearl to speed up the release of other ships. In addition, I have tried to calculate the travel time of specific ships to make it back to Pearl, so they arrive prior to the historical release dates for carriers.

Before Pearl will release a CV or SC TF, there must be enough escort ships.

TOOLS:
I have created screen shots of each class of escort ship, so I can quickly determine which ones get added to CV TF(s). I have noted on each image the approximate, historical arrival time, and which Allied Base Port they are assigned. This in effect provides a planning tool so I can have the ship(s) in their ports ready to be assigned when additional escorts arrive.

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 5
RE: CTF - 1/22/2009 8:07:35 PM   
Krec


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ty, that"s exactly the kind of info i am looking for. i am a land warfare guy, so the sea stuff is somewhat new although i've played the game for years , i have not really explored the nuts and bolts. seeing that i am in a major campaign i thought it wise to get some advise.

Krec

_____________________________

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." Patton


(in reply to a1981stingray)
Post #: 6
RE: CTF - 1/23/2009 8:55:47 AM   
xj900uk

 

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It also depends on ship crew experience. That can have a big factor in how many incoming enemy planes you knock down, not to mention co-ordiation with any CAP.
At the Battle of Santa Cruz, the CAP, AA disposition + defence strategy was being handled by a relatively junior FDO backed up by an inexperienced team on the AA cruiser Atlanta (I think that was the one). There were at least 3 separate IJN carrier forces out there coming in from different directions, & the FDO/team were unsure which was the main threat, where to position the ships, or even what altitude to put the CAP on.
As it was, in the final swan-song of the elite Jap air-crew, the IJN put on a superbly co-ordinated attack strategy that would have swamped any defence.

It is also worth noting that in the Battle of the Marianas, mid-'44 (aka the Marianas Turkey Shoot), where in one day the IJN lost c.270 out of 370 planes that attacked the US carriers (& their ability to ever mount an effective carrier air arm ever again), the US FDO still made a lot of mistakes, had the CAP incorrectly positioned, and the AA didn't do as good as it might have done. Most of the Japanese planes were shot down on their way out, not their way in (CAP going after the wrong planes). About 40% of the attacking Japanese were able to break through both the CAP Hellcats and also the AA barrage to drop their ordanace - estimated 150 planes dropped bombs/torpedos on the US fleet, of which there was one direct hit (on a battleship) and three near misses on carriers. Not a single fish found its target. The fact that there were so few hits was entirely down to the poor inadequate training and inexperience of the Japanese pilots. If the Japs had had any of their '42 standard pilots left to take part in the Marianas Turkey shoot, then a 40% penetration ratio would have been quite sufficient to bring the US force to its knees (before they had a chance to mount a strike back as well)
(40/50% penetration success was what they were achieving in '42, the difference being they had a very good, soemthing like 50% hit rate from ordanace dropped)

(in reply to Krec)
Post #: 7
RE: CTF - 1/23/2009 10:50:25 AM   
tocaff


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A CVTF of between 12 & 14 ships is what I use.  Based on 2 CVs & 6 DDs with the rest of the mix being BBs, CAs, CLs or CLAAs.  Remember AA ratings are huge as this type of TF will attract attention.  The reason for less than 15 ships is that this leaves room to absorb other ships from another TF that was attacked.  Flexibility is important.

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to xj900uk)
Post #: 8
RE: CTF - 1/23/2009 10:57:05 AM   
xj900uk

 

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If the US have any AA cruisers present, one should be with the carriers to help protect it. Also if you've got a Battleship, put one in the carrier TF to act as a bomb magnet

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 9
RE: CTF - 1/23/2009 1:02:19 PM   
borner


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If you have extra ships, I would go ahead and put then into carrier TF's. they do not take away anything, just after 15 ships they do not add the full AA vaule.

(in reply to xj900uk)
Post #: 10
RE: CTF - 2/4/2009 4:22:01 AM   
Krec


Posts: 548
Joined: 3/9/2001
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline


_____________________________

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." Patton


(in reply to borner)
Post #: 11
RE: CTF - 2/5/2009 3:29:51 AM   
Krec


Posts: 548
Joined: 3/9/2001
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline
thanks for the info , i am heading out with 6 cvs now, time to go hunting!!

_____________________________

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." Patton


(in reply to Krec)
Post #: 12
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