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RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

 
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RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM - 3/2/2009 4:11:16 PM   
undercovergeek

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I know this problem exists as well as I've seen it but it is hard to reproduce. Instead of trying to isolate an example, why can't the problem simply be circumvented by adding a step or something? Alter the format so that the Japanese player has to send the Allied player his "turn orders" prior to "running it" so that the Allied player can lock it and both then see the file. Kinda like having to launch keys for a nuke. I don't know, but there has to be some way to take the honour system element out of PBEM without slowing it to a crawl.

Anyway, I'd like to hear from those who play Japan. Fess up, have you ever rerun a turn until you were satisfied with the result?


only against the AI while teaching myself - i was trying to create the perfect turn 1 for the japanese - i dont mean great Pearl results just id do the pacific, run the turn, make sure everything went ok, then go back to the save and do all the stuff i wanted for the phillipines, wash rinse reapeat for all areas, within a turn or two of finally thinking id done everything the Pearl attack never launched, it was the weather over the KBs hex, never a problem before then, moved the KB 2 hexes east and all went well

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 61
RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM - 3/2/2009 4:51:19 PM   
Nomad


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Interesting, I do that all the time when I am doing a Japanese first turn. I do part and then run a quick turn to see if I got it right. The differences should be due to me making changes.

As far as running the Japanese turns more than once, I have tried it before to see if I could get one that didn't run the same. When there were reports of this earlier, i wanted to see if it was really true. I couold not get one from the Japanese side to not run the same. My feeling is it has something to do with the computer you have, the resident programs running, and how long it has been since you did a reboot.

< Message edited by Nomad -- 3/2/2009 5:02:24 PM >


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Post #: 62
RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM - 3/2/2009 6:36:23 PM   
Miller


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Has happened several times when playing UV, as has been said it is rare but does happen. I suspected an IJN player was re-running turns in a game I played a year or two ago....but when I mentioned the possibility of doing this I was shouted down.

Not seen this problem yet in any of my WITP games but it obviously exists.

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Post #: 63
RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM - 3/2/2009 11:04:12 PM   
Ron Saueracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Has happened several times when playing UV, as has been said it is rare but does happen. I suspected an IJN player was re-running turns in a game I played a year or two ago....but when I mentioned the possibility of doing this I was shouted down.

Not seen this problem yet in any of my WITP games but it obviously exists.


Who shouted you down? Your opponent or someone else?


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Post #: 64
RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM - 3/3/2009 1:55:18 PM   
floydg

 

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In my Turning Point game against CoachZ, we have had some sync bug issues.
One turn, I tried running numerous times and kept getting the same results, which were different than when he ran it (he is Japan). So I asked him to re-run it and he got different results from his original, which matched mine.

Another time, he re-ran a turn on a different computer and got different results.

No, we don't have save files, so we can't prove it. And for the record, I never claimed to have seen Bigfoot.

The truth is out there.

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 65
RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM - 3/3/2009 4:28:07 PM   
Miller


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker




Who shouted you down? Your opponent or someone else?



It was a long time ago so I don't want to drag up old wounds, some people mentioned the sync bug, but there is no way that that was the problem.......

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 66
RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM - 3/3/2009 4:56:40 PM   
Xargun

 

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I have also run turn 1 several times - not to see if I sent enough men or such to win a battle, but to make sure I didn't forget something - like load a division -- have done that several times. Have it written on paper, but never entered the commands.

[Working from my old - and often wrong memory] As for the 'bug' everyone is talking about:
If you reran the turn in the original version you could get different results - but one of the first major patches fixed that.

I have never crashed midturn so do not know about that. I do not discount that it may happen, but if not reproducable, its not a problem in my eyes.

Xargun

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Post #: 67
RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM - 3/3/2009 10:51:33 PM   
medicff

 

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I have always played allies so I have never experienced to tried to rerun turns. However I had wondered at times about constant "bad" luck with certain opponents.

This Absolutely should be ruled out or fixed. But I guess it depends on who you play and that viewpoint.

I dont think the above posts are describing the sync bug as that is well known.


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Post #: 68
RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM - 3/4/2009 1:24:05 PM   
Oldguard1970

 

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Hi Medicff - As I read this thread, the problem has been ruled out. 

Those who have seen different results report them as strange events rather than as something they can make happen.  If the game can or might generate different results only when there is an undefined combination of shut downs, freezes, power spikes, background programs, last reboots, operating system quirks, etc., then the issue should be seen as an odd glitch rather than an avenue for a Japanese player to seek better results.

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Post #: 69
RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM - 3/5/2009 1:37:50 AM   
medicff

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OldGuard1970

Hi Medicff - As I read this thread, the problem has been ruled out. 

Those who have seen different results report them as strange events rather than as something they can make happen.  If the game can or might generate different results only when there is an undefined combination of shut downs, freezes, power spikes, background programs, last reboots, operating system quirks, etc., then the issue should be seen as an odd glitch rather than an avenue for a Japanese player to seek better results.


Reading this thread I believe it was still in dispute. However was awaiting this tester's results... Anything yet?


"If someone has the saves and the steps to see the problem PM me. I'll look at them and report back. Why would I want to spend my time doing this? Well if only to end some of the bad attitude that is creeping into this discussion is good enough for me. In the end this is a game, yet some of the comments in this discussion I believe have challenged peoples credibility and/or honor. And that is sad." Flipperwasirish



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Post #: 70
RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM - 3/5/2009 1:43:27 AM   
wworld7


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Don't be waiting on me, my take on the discssion this is not a 100% repeatable happening. So it is difficult to prove. Hence no saves.

That's all folks.

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Post #: 71
RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM - 3/7/2009 1:37:41 AM   
medicff

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

Don't be waiting on me, my take on the discssion this is not a 100% repeatable happening. So it is difficult to prove. Hence no saves.

That's all folks.



Well I agree with no saves and no proof then its dismissed, unless someone comes up with the proof.


(in reply to wworld7)
Post #: 72
RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM - 3/8/2009 7:15:44 PM   
modrow

 

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Hi everyone,

I would like to suggest a way which (hopefully)

a) may help to make those who are concerned about being cheated less concerned or
b) may help to generate hard facts which will help to trace the bug, if there is one.

Would it not be possible that YH or someone he trusts provides a PBEM save as Allied and provides the file along with the password for the Japanese player to those who feel concerned ? Then, everyone who fears he is constantly cheated out of his victory could check whether repeatedly running this turn will generate a different result at all; if this is not always the case but only sometimes establish what needs to be done to obtain a different result and if he would think it worth to repeat the turn until he finally obtains the desired result as a Japanese player ? At the same time, one might get a bit of statistics about systems on which this occurs or not, if it is dependent on the system.

At the same time, I would think this has the appropriate effect that people who feel most affected by the bug -if it exists- can contribute to its solution rather than pointing at a guy that he should do something against the problem and claiming he does not even look at the problem if he can't reproduce it. I for one firmly believe that YH is doing his best to identify the problem, if there is one.

My experience from playing against AI is that only if I change something between running the turn for the first and the second time I get different results.

My -very limited- experience as PBEM player playing Nippon is that I have never noted a change of result when I ran a turn first at home on my desktop to see what happened and then had to rerun it on my laptop because I was not at home when I did the turn or vice versa. This situation was the only one in which I reran turns in a PBEM. Still, I recall occasions in AARs where people stated they obtained changing results, thus I guess it can happen.

What I presently don't think is that it can actually be exploited - unless there is a systematic approach that leads to changes each time you run it. Who would rerun a turn 50 times to finally obtain a better result ?

Just my thoughts

Hartwig

(in reply to medicff)
Post #: 73
RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM - 3/8/2009 7:52:56 PM   
witpqs


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The idea has merit, and there is an easier way. Any one who wants to can just do it all himself, no AE team member need be involved. After they achieve success in generating the problem they just send in all the before and after saves as was previously asked for.

(in reply to modrow)
Post #: 74
RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM - 3/8/2009 9:24:57 PM   
modrow

 

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Witpqs,

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The idea has merit, and there is an easier way. Any one who wants to can just do it all himself, no AE team member need be involved. After they achieve success in generating the problem they just send in all the before and after saves as was previously asked for.


On the one hand, I agree. One can even simulate sending the turn to oneself via e-mail.

On the other hand, I would like to have a well defined starting point plus eliminate the possibility that accidentially/unintentionally something is changed in the Allied file. Otherwise, YH may end up chasing ghosts and this discussion (which I thought had died already) will continue forever.

Hartwig

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 75
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