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AI Mini Spoiler - dont look if you really don't want to... - 1/14/2009 10:19:29 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Har gotcha

OK this may help I have picked a really late war speculative script to show off the AI scripting engine - if you ever see this one activate in an AI game you are in serious trouble !!!

This script basically orders elements of 14th Army to support Operation Olympic - so many prerequisites required for this one to kick in that its safe enough to demonstrate the AI engine but even on this one I am going to be carefull

Happy to take any questions but I will be restricting myself to this one script to avoid spoilers.








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< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 1/14/2009 10:25:35 PM >
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RE: AI Mini Spoiler - dont look if you really don't wan... - 1/15/2009 12:54:30 AM   
rjopel

 

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I'm so giddy looking at that I don't even know what to say.

COOL

(in reply to Andy Mac)
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RE: AI Mini Spoiler - dont look if you really don't wan... - 1/15/2009 2:11:33 AM   
Blackhorse


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:: Andy's straight man::

That looks great Andy, but it only shows the units that are attacking.

How do you tell them where to attack?

How do you hold a base and set up air/port operations after you've captured it?

And what happens if you lose a captured base to a counter-attack?

I'll bet you can't answer those questions!


_____________________________

WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to Andy Mac)
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RE: AI Mini Spoiler - dont look if you really don't wan... - 1/15/2009 2:31:18 AM   
Crimguy


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Looks cool. I really have no idea what I'm looking at though.

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RE: AI Mini Spoiler - dont look if you really don't wan... - 1/15/2009 3:24:50 AM   
Kull


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

:: Andy's straight man::

That looks great Andy, but it only shows the units that are attacking.

How do you tell them where to attack?

How do you hold a base and set up air/port operations after you've captured it?

And what happens if you lose a captured base to a counter-attack?

I'll bet you can't answer those questions!



I'm not on the team, but let me hazard some guesses:

1) "Where to attack?" Pretty much a given. Once the petri net recognizes the presence of a particular grouping of tokens (i.e. the pre-reqs), tree/script# 623 is triggered, and one of the fundamental blocks in every tree is "goto" location.

2) "Hold Base/Setup Air Ops?" Once the goal of Tree 623 is accomplished (i.e. ownership of Base X changes hands from Japan to Allies), that releases a token which triggers a different tree (we'll call it 623a for grins). The 623a tree/script sends various air units to the new base (presumably not the Base Ops force, as it makes more sense for that to be part of the 623 invasion force)

3) "Lose the base to a counter attack?" (Good luck with that, given the massive land force shown in the editor graphic!) Once tree 623 results in the capture of the base, the same token that triggered 623a can also trigger 623b, which is the tree/script that looks for the presence of the completed 623 tree AND a subsequent change in ownership of the base from Allies back to Japan. 623b presumably summons additional forces to support the Allied counterattack, and is probably quite similar to 623.

(in reply to Blackhorse)
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RE: AI Mini Spoiler - dont look if you really don't wan... - 1/15/2009 3:42:10 AM   
Blackhorse


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Now that's a well thought out answer.

Not necessarily the right answer, but well thought out.



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Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to Kull)
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RE: AI Mini Spoiler - dont look if you really don't wan... - 1/15/2009 3:55:02 AM   
Kull


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse


Now that's a well thought out answer.

Not necessarily the right answer, but well thought out.



Back in the day I heard almost the same comment from a Medieval History professor as she handed back my "D" paper!

(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 7
RE: AI Mini Spoiler - dont look if you really don't wan... - 1/15/2009 4:48:56 AM   
Blackhorse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse


Now that's a well thought out answer.

Not necessarily the right answer, but well thought out.



Back in the day I heard almost the same comment from a Medieval History professor as she handed back my "D" paper!



LOL! In this case though, the comment is for the exact opposite reason -- your answer is
more intelligent than the AI code we have to work with!

However, the final result is, we hope, fairly close to what you outlined above.

I'll leave it to Andy, when he returns online, to show how these issues are actually addressed in the AE AI Scripts.

_____________________________

WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 8
RE: AI Mini Spoiler - dont look if you really don't wan... - 1/15/2009 10:33:27 AM   
Andy Mac

 

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OK work has went nuts I will be back to explain more in about 12 hours

Basically though the lists have 2 functions

1. Bases in order to attack
2. List of units
3. Air bases
4. Air units
5. Defence LCU's

The one highlighted above is 2. from that list which tells the Ai which units to use when on the attack.

1. tells the AI which bases to attack
2. tells the Ai which units to use
3. Tells the AI which bases to move air units to in order
4. Tells the AI which air units to use and allows you to drop them off en route
5. Tells the AI what units to use to passively defend a base or garrison it

The prerequisite is that script 476 needs to have moved to defence mode or ended in order for this script to trigger

(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 9
RE: AI Mini Spoiler - dont look if you really don't wan... - 1/15/2009 10:41:13 AM   
Apollo11


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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

OK work has went nuts I will be back to explain more in about 12 hours

Basically though the lists have 2 functions

1. Bases in order to attack
2. List of units
3. Air bases
4. Air units
5. Defence LCU's

The one highlighted above is 2. from that list which tells the Ai which units to use when on the attack.

1. tells the AI which bases to attack
2. tells the Ai which units to use
3. Tells the AI which bases to move air units to in order
4. Tells the AI which air units to use and allows you to drop them off en route
5. Tells the AI what units to use to passively defend a base or garrison it

The prerequisite is that script 476 needs to have moved to defence mode or ended in order for this script to trigger



Thanks Andy!

Thanks guys!!!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 10
RE: AI Mini Spoiler - dont look if you really don't wan... - 1/15/2009 12:08:32 PM   
Apollo11


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Hi all,

I spend some time looking at the picture (and compiling all other info from other threads about it)...

What seems to be missing (or at least I don't see it nor I remeber it written) is the "IF", "THEN" and "ELSE" (or some other kind of switching)?

Does this mean that AI is "linear" and that it can only try to fulfill the predetermined path no matter what?


Thanks for info in advance!


Leo "Apollo11"


P.S.
Long long long time ago I wrote quite nice AI scripts for MS "Age of the Kings" (I was BETA as well)...


_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 11
RE: AI Mini Spoiler - dont look if you really don't wan... - 1/15/2009 3:17:41 PM   
Terminus


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Sort of, but not really, because you can have multiple scripts running simultaneously, and there's nothing to keep you from assigning the same base as an offensive objective in both scripts.

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(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 12
RE: AI Mini Spoiler - dont look if you really don't wan... - 1/15/2009 3:44:44 PM   
aciddrinker


Posts: 135
Joined: 2/22/2008
From: Poland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

OK work has went nuts I will be back to explain more in about 12 hours

Basically though the lists have 2 functions

1. Bases in order to attack
2. List of units
3. Air bases
4. Air units
5. Defence LCU's

The one highlighted above is 2. from that list which tells the Ai which units to use when on the attack.

1. tells the AI which bases to attack
2. tells the Ai which units to use
3. Tells the AI which bases to move air units to in order
4. Tells the AI which air units to use and allows you to drop them off en route
5. Tells the AI what units to use to passively defend a base or garrison it

The prerequisite is that script 476 needs to have moved to defence mode or ended in order for this script to trigger



I hope in some near future, you be able to post some screens of Tab 1,3-5.

There future looks great, is there some limitation of max. number of TF that we can assign to operation support?

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RE: AI Mini Spoiler - dont look if you really don't wan... - 1/15/2009 6:43:56 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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3 per script but you can have multiple scripts I have a lot a Naval only TF's and some attack scripts have 2 or 3 naval only scripts alongside especially late war for the USN

Andy

(in reply to aciddrinker)
Post #: 14
RE: AI Mini Spoiler - dont look if you really don't wan... - 1/15/2009 11:58:19 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14751
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Each scrip can control air, sea and ground forces or just one or 2

You can have up to 1,000 scripts we have about 600 now

smaller scenarios need 0 - 20 depending on size.

scripts have 3 triggers to end them

1. When the closing date is passed
2. When the 'trigger' base is captured'
3. Whent he 'trigger' base is lost 

Naval control allows you to specify 3 support TF's per script which can be set to go to each base in turn folow each other use way points etc etc

Lots of different controls but getting them to all play nice with each other requires testing

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 15
RE: AI Mini Spoiler - dont look if you really don't wan... - 1/16/2009 3:20:00 AM   
Blackhorse


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From: Eastern US
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11
What seems to be missing (or at least I don't see it nor I remeber it written) is the "IF", "THEN" and "ELSE" (or some other kind of switching)?


This is a limitation. As Terminius said, we have found some (limited) workarounds, and we've discussed some promising possibilities that could make it into an early patch . . . but with the code the AE team inherited don't expect this to become the AI version of "the Greatest Story Ever Told."

It will be (IMHO - already is) better than stock. There are many improvements. Some are simple: the AI will now try to defend/retake the Aleutians, for example. Some are more subtle -- the "rear guard" script routines gives the AI an ability to react if a base is unexpectedly captured behind the lines.

Advances will be fairly linear. But with the use of multiple scripts, we've made it difficult for a player to completely halt an AI advance simply by holding it up at one base. And Andy has added some nasty AI surprises to keep it interesting.




_____________________________

WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 16
RE: AI Mini Spoiler - dont look if you really don't wan... - 1/16/2009 4:13:46 AM   
jcjordan

 

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So now the AI will try to take the West Coast & Panama Canal in 41 to prevent the US from sending the massive US fleet of late war into the Pacific ???

 I'll settle for a retake of Wake if the initial fails along w/ a Midway/Nouema gambit.

(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 17
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