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Space sims...again... - 1/1/2009 4:27:59 PM   
JudgeDredd


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I didn't want to hijack someone elses thread...

I would like to know...what space sims are out there that allow for manual insertion/execution of land forces?

I'd like a space sim that allows me to control a fleet (either immediately, or through prgression...either or) and, using that fleet, select planets to land forces on and control those forces.

I know the creator of Battle Cruiser 2000AD created a game that suggested you could do that...but two things...1, I couldn't force myself to play a game by that self righteous git and 2, I didn't believe it!

So...is there anything out there?

Thx
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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/1/2009 4:59:30 PM   
sabre1


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Hey JD, I never mind someone hijacking a thread.

Good question. Lurk mode on.  The only one I remember is MOO2, and that was VERY abstracted.

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/1/2009 5:06:39 PM   
String


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It's called EvE Online. The AI can be a bit of a bitch sometimes though

EDIT:

Goddamnit! I thought i read the OP and then when I reread it I realised that i had missed the point totally. You won't get that from eve online for a few years atleast, although it's being planned.

I do think that a game called Star General, from the five general series should do it.

< Message edited by String -- 1/1/2009 5:08:03 PM >

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/1/2009 5:28:30 PM   
hadberz


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Emperor of the Fading Suns might be what your looking for. It has fleet and planet combat. The AI is not the greatest. The game is old, so you may have a hard time finding a copy for sell. There are user mods out there. Check out this site for some mods. http://hyperion.twarriors.com/

I just reread your post, Emperor is more of a 4x game.

< Message edited by hadberz -- 1/1/2009 5:31:20 PM >

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/1/2009 6:05:13 PM   
Mike Dubost

 

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If you can find a copy of Space General, the mechanics are essentially Panzer General (hardly a shock, since it is part of the same series). You have space battles, and then you land your forces on the target planet and switch to air/ground combat. It has simplistic technological "levels", but each race has slightly different ships, so there is an element of R&D in it. I enjoy doing it in "expansion war" mode where the map is a randomly generated square "galaxy" and you start with one world and have to explore the "galaxy" to see what else is there.

The major drawback I have found is that it won't run under Windows XP. I haven't tried it under Vista though, since I still have my old Windows 95 desktop (I feel like an antique collector sometimes ). I got it many years ago so I don't know if it can be purchased anywhere.

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/1/2009 7:32:45 PM   
Brigz


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I'm not so sure about Star General. I got it a long time ago when it first came out and it just didn't hold my interest. I've also read many negative comments on the game over the ten plus years since it came out. It was supposed to be Panzer General in space but was never the game that Panzer General was. You might be able to still find reviews on it scattered around the various websites and possibly abandon ware sites might have it. But I don't think it's the game JD is looking for.

It will run on XP but the 3D ship renderings don't come out very sharp. The rest of the graphics do look good though. To run it on XP you have to use the windows compatibility program when you install the game.

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/1/2009 8:41:04 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: String

I do think that a game called Star General, from the five general series should do it.

That's strategy/wargame, NOT sim! Only thing that comes to my mind (besides Battlecruiser 3000 A.D. serie) is Imperium Galactica 2, and it's RTS...

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/1/2009 9:00:45 PM   
noxious


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Judge, you were right : i bought battlecruiser 3000 AD Gold on a Dare (second hand, dirt cheap), and even with all patches, it was unrunnable, much less enjoyable. And yeah, you could land troops, more or less : the sky in ground environments was a messed up cube, where you could always feel the sky was a low height flat ceiling, yes the planets were huge, but also empty.
I won't even get into the AI.
Nasty.
That Phd ain't smart ;)
He considered Torque back then for that project, and I now fully realize why he didn't : simply doesn't have the technical chops to lead a software or game project.
Imagine the result : they built the engine from the ground up and the game in record time...
He got lucky with that one : the Strategy First and Dreamcatcher Interactive scandal/fiascos turned the "fanbase" focus on those problems rather than the fact the game was released in as bad a state as that infamous 20 wheeler game that got the worse score on gamespot a few years back ;)

Rant off.

Happy new year all


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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/1/2009 9:28:53 PM   
JudgeDredd


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Yes...Mr Derek Smart. I had the unfortunate experience of posting on his forums many, many moons ago. Basically, a very, very angry crowd. He seemed to surround himself with yes men and get rid of the naysayers. Even people who had genuine gripes...I've never seen anyone get away with treating their customer base with such obnoxious self righteousness and get apologies from those who started to question the mechanics. Needless to say I never visited the forums again, shelved the broken game and never bought another piece of software.

But I digress...

If people consider what Battlecruiser 3000AD was meant to be, it's along those lines what I'm looking for.

Be in charge of a battlecruiser and target a system, load marines onto their transports and send them in. Not necessarily control the ground forces....simply that I am given the power and the tools to load and send an invasion force....a bit like Carrier Command, but on a planetary scale.

For my sim kicks, I have X3 Terran Conflict....but there are not any troop/invasion force managements. And it would have to be RTS I guess.

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/1/2009 11:07:06 PM   
Zap


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cancel


< Message edited by Zap -- 1/1/2009 11:40:05 PM >


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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/1/2009 11:46:35 PM   
mllange

 

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Supremacy: Four Paths To Power is a unique, fast-paced but deeply strategic game of interplanetary combat for one or two players. In the tradition of games such as Alpha Centauri and X-Com, Supremacy is a turn-based strategy game where players attempt to colonize planets in a variety of quadrants within a very unusual galaxy. Players choose one of four commanding officers, each with their own unique backstory, advantages and disadvantages, and start with at least one planet and one spaceship. From those humble beginnings, they must build up a fighting force and expand their empire while dealing with the opposition, a Commanding Officer of equal rank who is building up his own forces. In addition players will have to deal with merciless space pirates, who lurk hidden in the shadows of deep space. Scripted narrative segments move the story but the essential gameplay is extremely open-ended and non-linear, giving players unprecedented strategic freedom. In space or on land, through resource management, choice of vessels and ground troops, clever maneuvering or brute force, you must conquer the galaxy. Supremacy perfectly combines easy-to-learn addictive strategy gameplay with unprecedented depth and replayability.

It's been years since I fired up this game, but if memory serves it wasn't too bad.

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/2/2009 1:00:40 AM   
Mike Dubost

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Briggs

I'm not so sure about Star General. I got it a long time ago when it first came out and it just didn't hold my interest. I've also read many negative comments on the game over the ten plus years since it came out. It was supposed to be Panzer General in space but was never the game that Panzer General was. You might be able to still find reviews on it scattered around the various websites and possibly abandon ware sites might have it. But I don't think it's the game JD is looking for.

It will run on XP but the 3D ship renderings don't come out very sharp. The rest of the graphics do look good though. To run it on XP you have to use the windows compatibility program when you install the game.



Well, everyone has their own taste in games. It is fun for me. I do still dust it off every now and then even after so many years, but maybe others would not like it as much.

I am not real computer savy some ways, so I never thought about the compatibility program. I may want to try that.

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/2/2009 2:24:12 AM   
mllange

 

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Another I forgot about earlier is Space Empires V.

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/2/2009 3:09:24 AM   
Valkyrie


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Way, way, way off the wall, but...

Would it be possible to Mod WiTP into a space sim? If we envisioned the naval forces as space ships, the fighter units as space going interceptors and bombers and the ground units as Space marines etc etc? It seems like the mechanics would actually transfer pretty well into a "space opera" type universe.

If not possible as a mod (I'm not experienced in such things) it certainly would be appealing as a new game design utilizing this level of detail and time scale as a space sim. WiTG... War in the Galaxy

< Message edited by Valkyrie -- 1/2/2009 3:10:25 AM >


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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/2/2009 6:39:31 AM   
sabre1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nim8or

Another I forgot about earlier is Space Empires V.


I wondered about that one, never played it, but I haven't heard great things about it. SEIV Deluxe was very good from all accounts. SEV was buggy on release from what I recall.

Something to look up and research, my favorite thing to do, check on interesting games, dang, I guess someone has to do it.



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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/2/2009 6:46:38 AM   
sabre1


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JD,

Are you looking for turn based or RTS?  There is a game called Dropship, same place you got CMSF.

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/2/2009 6:49:18 AM   
sabre1


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Sheesh, my son reminded me that there is a Star Wars game, that transitions to the planet for battles.  I was just never into the Star Wars Universe.

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/2/2009 7:04:50 AM   
sabre1


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SEV is up to 1.77 patch and was just recently fixed, so the game is still being supported. 

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/2/2009 7:38:06 AM   
Valkyrie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sabre1

SEV is up to 1.77 patch and was just recently fixed, so the game is still being supported. 


Thanks, I was still at 1.74. Downloading the latest now.

For those interested in SEV, here's the support site that I check fairly regularly:

http://www.spaceempires5.com/

The patches come very frequently as they fine tune the game. Just finished reading a few threads over there and the heavy duty players still think it is somewhat buggy, but not game stopping. I've never gotten deep enough into a game to hit any of them. It's fun and quite an ongoing project, it seems. As you can see, the patches are numbered sequentially so 1.77 reflects a LOT of patches.

Version 1.77:
Fixed - Mines will no longer detonate if they cannot damage the ship.
Fixed - A few more conditions where vehicle design statistics would not record a destroyed ship.
Fixed - The solar system display was not repainting and removing marked minefields.
Fixed - After all enemies are dead in combat, ships will hold position.
Fixed - Starting technology points were still incorrect.
Fixed - Starting techs from racial traits were not being supplied.


Version 1.76:
Added - "Display Speed Improvements" to the Options window. These settings allow you to turn off the display of certain column in the Ships, Colonies, and Systems window. Turning off the display of some columns will greatly increase the time is takes to display these windows when large numbers of objects are present.
Fixed - Text wrapping was incorrect.
Fixed - Error in intelligence events script preventing messages.
Fixed - Mines will no longer detonate if they cannot damage the ship.
Fixed - Fleets selected to move together were losing an extra movement point.
Fixed - Damaged ships were not receiving their full movement on the turn they were repaired.
Fixed - Ships were not getting their crew back when unmothballed even if a crew source was available.
Fixed - On a deconstruction and analyze, you might get a message for an impossible tech level.
Fixed - Units would lose supplies and ordnance when recovered during combat.
Changed - Units launched will take supplies and ordnance from their parent object if they do not have their maximum. They will only take supplies down to the level of "Ship Supply Amount for Low Supply Warning" in Settings.txt.
Fixed - Units recovered on a ship will add their supplies and ordnance to the parent ship until it reaches its maximum.

Version 1.75:
Fixed - Units entering combat from space would not have their full allotment of supplies and ordnance.
Fixed - Using orders, you could remove the last 1M population from a planet.
Fixed - Destroyed organic armor would still regenerate.
Fixed - Some system wide facility abilities were not stacking correctly.
Fixed - Some planet damaging weapons would not fire on planets.
Fixed - A critical failure on a ship will result in zero movement and no weapons fire from that ship. A critical failure is when a ship loses its bridge, master computer, all life support, all crew quarters, or all of its crew.
Fixed - Starting technology points were including race trait supplied tech areas.
Fixed - Alliance proposal vote requirements will now round up. For example, if the rules say that 60% of votes are needed to pass and there are 3 possible votes, then 2 votes are required to pass the proposal.
Fixed - Religious Studies should have only 1 tech level.
Fixed - You can only retrofit a ship once per turn.
Fixed - When you join an alliance, your empire becomes aware of all empires and alliances that any of the members are aware of.
Fixed - A component's supply and ordnance usage can never be lowered below 1 by abilities if the original value was greater than zero.
Fixed - Error in event script changing a planet's value.
Fixed - Error in event script increasing a population's anger.
Fixed - Fixed some overflow errors that could be generated in scripts.
Added - Field "Compress Savegames" to Settings.txt data file. This determines whether the game will compress and decompress savegames, map files, empire files, game setup files, and player order files. Setting this to false has trade offs: Your savegames will load and save much faster, but will be much larger in size (instead of a 30MB savegame, you'll have a 300MB savegame file). Also, with this setting false, the game will no longer be able to load compressed games. This field is really intended for single player games where the load times have become unbearably long. If you wish to manually compress\decompress a savegame file use the program SE5Compressor.exe in the se5\utilities directory.
Fixed - Treaties that shared designs could cause the savegame to bloat with designs kept around long after they were no longer being used.
Changed - Old designs are now deleted when no longer in use, marked as obsolete, and haven't been seen in at least 2 years.

< Message edited by Valkyrie -- 1/2/2009 7:44:07 AM >


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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/2/2009 11:10:34 AM   
Hertston


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nim8or

Another I forgot about earlier is Space Empires V.


Yes.. you might want to check that out, JD. It seems to fit your requirements. I actually got it yesterday in view of these threads and the Steam sale price (£4.49) to play about with and while it's far too early to comment on quality it certainly seems very deep, with both space and ground tactical combat as well as all the usual 4X stuff.

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/2/2009 1:33:51 PM   
leastonh1


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SEIV was great with all the patches. I'm not a fan of the system myself as I prefer to have an actual file on my pooter, but both SEIV and SEV are available to buy on Steam now for £6.99 as a pack.

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/2/2009 3:23:15 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

If people consider what Battlecruiser 3000AD was meant to be, it's along those lines what I'm looking for.

Be in charge of a battlecruiser and target a system, load marines onto their transports and send them in. Not necessarily control the ground forces....simply that I am given the power and the tools to load and send an invasion force....a bit like Carrier Command, but on a planetary scale.

Space sim which comes pretty close of that: Starshatter. No ground units though, but otherwise player can command carrier battlegroup. On the plus side, all the fleet assets have been modelled by real military navies (carrier is ONLY ship capable of maintaining fighter operations). Planets are there too, where player mostly engages enemy airfields and defense structures (AA batteries), and sometimes escorts shuttle from space down to planet (what shuttle holds is anybody's guess)

[edit]
Check out demo

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/3/2009 6:50:27 PM   
mllange

 

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@Sabre1 re: Star Wars

Actually, the Star Wars: Empire at War games (core w/ expansion) are quite good. Even if you don't like the Star Wars universe, the gameplay is engaging with strategic and to a lesser extent, tactical depth. My teenage boys bought me the gold pack for my birthday last year and I found myself enjoying it much more than I would have imagined. For $19.99 at Amazon it provides solid entertainment; I highly recommend giving it a go.

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/4/2009 4:31:04 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

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Not a bad game, but IMHO Imperium Galactica 2 is STILL better game

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/4/2009 6:03:19 PM   
sabre1


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Imperium Glactica 2 does look interesting.

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/6/2009 5:23:36 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sabre1

Imperium Glactica 2 does look interesting.

Imperium Galactica 2 and Empire at War are very similar with some variations. What I can tell from playing the demos, Empire at War has more weight on tactical scale combat, and ground combat in particular is more detailed. Everything else (like getting new units) is straigthforward and simple.

IG2 has much more detailed economy, research, and diplomacy. Some parts of those (colony construction) need some micromanagement. Space combat happens on mostly empty space, where starships can be moved around, but for fighters is only slidebar which defines how far they are allowed to depart from starships. Even though it is possible to move around and engage at long range, there isn't need for that with superior endurance and firepower. Ground combat features only combat vehicles, fortifications, and everything else are unarmed colony structures. When own weapons outrange enemy fortifications, only tactical depth is to destroy forts beyond their range. Combination of MBTs and some kind of (rocket) artillery gets the job done. Customizing starships and combat vehicles is fun though.

So if you're interested about tactical level combat with some strategy, EAW is way to go. For more 4X style game, IG2. Both are RTS all the way.

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RE: Space sims...again... - 1/6/2009 5:39:51 PM   
wdboyd


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Salutations,

UNIVERSAL COMBAT Collectors' Edition should meet your requirements.

It is a final compilation of ALL EIGHT GAMES from Derek Smart.

I know, I know, Smart comes across as a opinionated jerk, but his game(s) are actually very good, albeit very challenging. You might want to check it out.

Oh, as a measure of difficulty and depth... it comes with a 97 page game tutorial. Mr. Smart used to adamantly disparage all those desiring a tutorial for his complex games. It looks like he came to his senses in this regard at least.

< Message edited by wdboyd -- 1/6/2009 5:48:14 PM >

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RE: Space sims...again... - 2/6/2009 9:27:36 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sabre1

Imperium Glactica 2 does look interesting.

Got the game installed earlier this week, and beated one of the campaigns just moment ago! There are 3 campaigns, each on its separate disc. First campaign on list was Solarian (comes from our star, Sol). I decided to play it through as peacefully as possible... but then on one of my planets was rebellion/revolt, and it changed flag to Kra'Hen. I decided it was without doubt it was work of Kra'Hen spies. When I retook planet back with force, Kra'Hen declared war. Kra'Hen was at war with everybody else too, and kicked serious ass. Tide turned when my heavy cruisers fought off series of battles against main Kra'Hen fleet (AI pools all warships to one fleet, which may get HUGE).

It started with 7 warships against 29 & 300 fighters. Kra'Hen ships were armed with torps, which takes same item slot as shield, so they all were unshielded. Therefore I swapped torps of my ships to shield and ECM. ECM fooled off enemy torps while shields absorbed brunt of other weapons. When HPs of my ships got low, I pulled them to edge of map and hit retreat button. Repeat couple times, and Kra'Hen fleet was beaten with 2 casualties for myself! Then it was just matter of time: cruiser fleet & associated tanks rolled over one planet at the time while lesser formations were hunting fighters & occasional ship that were Kra'Hen's attempt of restoring its fleet assets. Planets with too strong ground defences for cruiser fleet's tank force, were left for slow mobile space base, which can carry whopping 20 tanks alone! (other ships below battleship can take just 2 without additional cargo which is away from other equipment). Alliance with two other empires secured inevitable victory, and as last planet & ships of Kra'Hen fell, campaign was over.

There is more to it. Traders cry help against pirates, powerful religious sect is looking for data crystals all over galaxy, earth quakes threaten existence of planet, mercenaries offer their services... There are enough events, but much of them are scripted. Everything are not thrown at the player at once: it all starts with small region of space where greatest threat are small pirate bands. Later map area is expanded larger and larger, just like in first game of the serie and Supreme Commander. Anyways this was just one campaign out of 3, and there are plenty of scenarios too.

One small gripe about it: at some point there are so many planets that some people (including me) don't want to bother to micromanage. I concentrated on handful of planets, and others were there just for tax pay. Otherwise I have just 2 other complaints: discs were dirty even though seller says they have machine for cleaninig them (game's used), and sometimes cut scenes lag like they were played by 4x CD-ROM drive even though they're coming from disc image loaded on DAEMON Tools Lite (same with original CDs). But it's still great game if real-time play and other points mentioned aren't showstoppers.

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Post #: 28
RE: Space sims...again... - 2/6/2009 10:01:00 PM   
cdbeck


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I enjoyed Imperium Galactica 2, back in the day. Now it is a bit long in the tooth and certainly harder to abide by the poor graphics and old style UI. Emperor of the Fading Suns is a game whose sun shall never fade, but you practically MUST have the Hyperion or Nova fan-made patches. Both of the games are turn based fleet to planet warfare games - you won't control only your fleet but all units out there. EotFS is far more of a "wargame" and IG2 is real time and includes a more fast-paced MoO2 feel.

Otherwise the pickings are slim. You have the X3 series for fleet control, but no ground combat and far more oriented toward trade than anything. I have recently come across a series of Elite style games, the Evochron series. A new one released yesterday, Evochron Legends. You can only have one ship, and it is much more a survival "lone wolf" space game, but you can land on planets and do some pretty nice dog-fighting. Not even close to what you are looking for (more like a competitor to X3), but it is pretty cool.

I never played Derek Smart's games, but I understand some of them are out there for free now. They always seemed rather ambitious, and were literaly panned worse than a Uwe Boll film. I would love to be proved wrong, as the it would be awesome to have the BSG style experience that they might provide.

Other than that, I would say the X3 series gives you the best "fleet control" even without the troops.

I would love to see if other come up with some good stuff here, I'm always up for space control games!




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"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to Kuokkanen)
Post #: 29
RE: Space sims...again... - 2/7/2009 4:34:02 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3279
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

I would love to see if other come up with some good stuff here, I'm always up for space control games!

Homeworld and Starshatter series

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to cdbeck)
Post #: 30
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