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New Vista Boy - 12/16/2008 3:59:54 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
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Before I get started, if under Xp a file is dated 2001, does that mean your computer was that old, or that is when the file was created? Because there was afile that old on my XP.

Okey-dokey. About 4 days ago I ran a popup blocker I hadn't ran in over a year for the XP. It tried to install a ton of stuff, although it worked perfectly fine about a year ago. It didn't even let me update it as I was going to do. Norton screened them, but I gave them the go ahead. I didn't approve all of them but something was certainly amiss. Then, I guess you could say I paniced. I'm not sure if the aforementioned caused the problem, or what I did next. I decided to get into Norton's log. There I found three programs, which looked greek to me, which had made like 600 changes on my computer at that time. So I immediately had Norton delete them, despite Norton warning of possible system consequences to doing so (IOW, I think Norton states that as a dummy message and doesn't actually know whether the programs concerned are integral to the computer). I considered them to be outsiders, so delete.

Then I started thinking. I'm not sure when it happened, but I lost both my cd and dvd drives. They just wouldn't load anything anymore. they had always been fairly skitzy, particularly the cd, as it was so bad I had been only using the dvd for years. So then I decided that I better get back into Norton's log and see if I can recover the deleted programs. All three seemed to work, but one of them had some problem initially, but later Norton showed it as a fine recovery. Nothing changed with my drives.

So to make a long story somewhat shorter, I decided my days of XP-only were over. I have bought a http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9081325&type=product&id=1218017465909. I'm still considering the possibility of running dual-OS, but for now the most sensible thing seems to be to use the XP for XP-only programs, though that restricts me to no more installs (no working drive) on XP, and run new stuff on the Vista. It seems my Gateway isn't even a month old according to the sticker from the manufacturer stating to not sell it before 11/16/08. I have a small flash stick I got free from work, so that helps in some of this transition.

The Gateway is a real honey (I cannot believe how quiet it is. It's almost annoying), though I haven't loaded a single game on it just yet. It sounds like it can handle just about anything. It was either that or their Alienware Aurora floor model, which was like $1700. As a sidenote, I got Best Buy (I would had used my old standby IMS computers to buy from, and failing that CompUSA, but neither seem to be in business anymore) to do what they called an optimization. Things like changing your internet settings to accept higher speeds. One guy I spoke to also said that it involves removing the bloatware which I was fairly worried about. Later, I got on the subject of bloatware again with somebody else, and he acted like he didn't know what I was talking about and that Gateway didn't have it. I'm sad to say they didn't touch the bloatware. Great. What's worse is not only don't I have a cd or manual of the ATI vid card, but I don't have either for the OS!!! I talked to the Geek Squad geeks and they said it didn't come with those things. Great, so Gateway has to buy a Vista from MS and they throw it away? And the disk too? Perhaps this fits into some sort of mass copying permission from MS, but I always thought MS was real strict about single seperate copies of at least the disk. So now I wonder what I'm going to do when I need the OS disk (other than just a stupid backup)? I think the Vista 64 bit Home Premium is like $130. Maybe Gateway support can satisfactorily help me with this? I will bet Alienware would had gave me all the documentation and disks.

Oh, I'm running UPS for the first time to protect the circuits and what not, and one thing I appreciate quite a bit, is that it disables my data flow through the cable modem when the computer is either sleeping or off. I fear of people piggy backing on my modem (10MB line) so with the XP I regularly pulled out the cable when the internet wasn't being used. That convenience alone almost pays for the the difference between that and the surge protectors I was contemplating.

Oh, nice story I suppose, but the main reason I write is to get a response to this Vista question, and seeing how Matrix's search function is so cock-eyed I'm not even going to bother. Just what is the .dll file people have been talking about that is necessary to delete (or what that a delete?) for some or all games? I have the 64 bit Home Premium SP1 package at the moment.

Oh, one more little spec thing. My first HDTV was a 22' LCD from Insignia. I replaced that with a larger plasma later, so I bought the plsma with the understanding that I would use the LCD in some capacity somewhere later. So now that is what I am running this under, a 22' LCD Insignia 720p. Seems real nice for the computer, but as I haven't run any games on it yet I cannot be too certain if it will hold up on that end. Most of my games are quite low graohic requirements anyway. With my current setup, one thign occurs to me apart from getting one of those no-disk rips, is that I will never play Civ3 again as it requires a disk in the drive. Civ4 does as well, but it can probaly run on the Vista.

Hmm, the link doesn't appear to work at the moment, so I will spell it out. It's a Gateway FX6800-01e. Uses DDR3 Strips.

< Message edited by Charles_22 -- 12/16/2008 4:17:01 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: New Vista Boy - 12/16/2008 4:52:33 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
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Ouch. Quite a story.

First off, I'm not sure of any "bloatware" he's talking about. Generally speaking, when people refer to "bloatware", they are talking about programs which use resources but are of no real use to yourself...ergo "bloatware" is specific to the user. As an example, if I had Norton Anti Virus installed, but decided to use another AV product, then Norton, to me, would be bloatware on my system.

As for a specific DLL? No idea m8...

Onto the disk issue. When you buy a new system, you get an OEM copy of the software. It's simply a licence. The companies that sell these get the licences heavily discounted from MS, which is why you don't see your new shiny laptop costing an extra $200 because of the OS being pre-installed. Normally, manufacturers include a package on the system which allows you to backup your system to a DVD. It doesn't always work (as I found out with my laptop) and so I have no backup of my OS.

Generally speaking, I stay well clear of any "pre-built" systems and build my own. That way if I want to put crap in it to keep the cost down, thn I know what crap I'm putting in. I do not trust computer companies to fit decent motherboards or memory. If they can get away with it, they'll generally put crap in to keep costs down (I'm not saying that's happened with your system...simply that I do not trust them). I always build my own. That way I KNOW what's going in it.

As for your modem...if it's a router modem, then you should be able to set an encrypted password on it. I'm not entirely sure on that as I have a different setup...I have a router which sits between my PC and cable modem. The router has a 128bit encrypted password which would prevent anyone from using my wireless router to gain access to my home system or cable modem.

As a side note, I'd get Norton the hell outta there. I cannot abide Norton. Some people love it. It caused me nothing but headaches once and I never went back to it...ever.

Protect your system with aVast anti virus. It's free. If you have a router that could be your firewall. If not, you can use Zonealarm...or install ZoneAlarm also as an added protection system. Vista also comes with Microsoft Defender built in...so your part way protected anyway.

All you really need is a router which is password protected, free avast anti virus software, free Zone Alarm and MS Defender. Scan every now and again and keep the system clean.

(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 2
RE: New Vista Boy - 12/16/2008 5:35:43 PM   
Challerain

 

Posts: 270
Joined: 6/16/2001
From: Mansfield, Texas
Status: offline
I believe in this case the "bloatware" is referring to all of the added software that companies add such as AOL that take up a lot of disk space.....

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 3
RE: New Vista Boy - 12/16/2008 9:01:49 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Ouch. Quite a story.

First off, I'm not sure of any "bloatware" he's talking about. Generally speaking, when people refer to "bloatware", they are talking about programs which use resources but are of no real use to yourself...ergo "bloatware" is specific to the user. As an example, if I had Norton Anti Virus installed, but decided to use another AV product, then Norton, to me, would be bloatware on my system.

As for a specific DLL? No idea m8...

Onto the disk issue. When you buy a new system, you get an OEM copy of the software. It's simply a licence. The companies that sell these get the licences heavily discounted from MS, which is why you don't see your new shiny laptop costing an extra $200 because of the OS being pre-installed. Normally, manufacturers include a package on the system which allows you to backup your system to a DVD. It doesn't always work (as I found out with my laptop) and so I have no backup of my OS.

Generally speaking, I stay well clear of any "pre-built" systems and build my own. That way if I want to put crap in it to keep the cost down, thn I know what crap I'm putting in. I do not trust computer companies to fit decent motherboards or memory. If they can get away with it, they'll generally put crap in to keep costs down (I'm not saying that's happened with your system...simply that I do not trust them). I always build my own. That way I KNOW what's going in it.

As for your modem...if it's a router modem, then you should be able to set an encrypted password on it. I'm not entirely sure on that as I have a different setup...I have a router which sits between my PC and cable modem. The router has a 128bit encrypted password which would prevent anyone from using my wireless router to gain access to my home system or cable modem.

As a side note, I'd get Norton the hell outta there. I cannot abide Norton. Some people love it. It caused me nothing but headaches once and I never went back to it...ever.

Protect your system with aVast anti virus. It's free. If you have a router that could be your firewall. If not, you can use Zonealarm...or install ZoneAlarm also as an added protection system. Vista also comes with Microsoft Defender built in...so your part way protected anyway.

All you really need is a router which is password protected, free avast anti virus software, free Zone Alarm and MS Defender. Scan every now and again and keep the system clean.


Yes, i don't technically know what bloatware is, but I used the understanding that it was programs on your computer that you didn't want and was put on in such a manner as mine. I don't think any are using any system resources, but I haven't checked just yet either. Most of them that I have seen are MS type 60 day trial things, which I will ignore for a while.

As for the OS software costing $200 more if they gave me a disk, that does make some sense, however, what my Xp dealer gave me for it makes me think they did not charge extra. they told me they had to provide the copies to the customer. From what I understand they built an awful lot of computers for individuals and organizations around here. I will make sure and look into backing up the OS pretty soon.

As far as pre-built comps go, the IMS boys were precisely like you doing it yourself, only it costing you more to pay them to do it. You picked all the options, changed periferals at will, etc. You exchanged parts with them in a sense. If their vid card costed $300 and you wanted the $200 one, you saved $100. I can barely get my head around the most immediate issues dealing with an OS I know so very little about, much less deal with building it myself. I couldn't build a 98SE either for that matter.

as for the modem, I do have a router, but whether it's pasword encrypted I don't recall. I just stopped using it on the XP because it really proved a hassle for internet connectivity. I thought Norton did a good job and it didn't interfere with much of anything as far as I could tell. It was far better than my experiences with McAfee. I'm currently using Windows firewall combined with the anti-virus/firewall of Kaspersky, which Best Buy guys raved about (not that I list BB as my most trusted advisors by any means - probably just a sales technique, you know...). It's supposed to be pretty resource free anyway. They claimed they had a Norton machine that claimed the computer had no viruses, than ran Kaspersky and found over 160. I got a slight discount buying a full three years coverage with it, as I know how much I prized the Norton subscription. Yes, Norton is on here somewhere, whether it's a trial or not. It hasn't raised it's head just yet though. I hope that 60 day stuff will fly away after that time, but I suspect it's 60 days after you 'start' it, not 60 days after it's on the computer. Naturally, I won't start them, so I will have to rid them in some way over time. At least they keep the computer from looking nude . I have added windvd9 Plus Blu-Ray for dvd activities.

As for ZoneAlarm, I used to use it on the XP free, but the patches became so unstable often enough, that I decided to get what seemed ot me a more serious AV, one that has a yearly subscription with fairly frequent updates or better. One thing I can say for Norton, not s single update, out of what must had been well over a 100, ever gave me instability in any way. I learned I couldn't trust a free product about delivering stability all the time; just sometimes. Maybe that is not so with this other one you mention, however, I'm already covered for three years with Kaspersky and ol' sorry Windows can back that up in firewall.

I might check on my router again, to add to things, but I suspect it isn't Vista compatible and will just prove to be the annoyance it once was.

yes, if you didn't know it, there's definitely some .dll file that's supposed to be taken care of, but perhaps that's was a 32 bit Vista problem. I don't recall if it was all the Vistas or not. A brief glance I have had of customer complaints, repeat, just a brief glance, suggests that Vista Ultimate is the most troublesome.


< Message edited by Charles_22 -- 12/16/2008 9:05:23 PM >

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 4
RE: New Vista Boy - 12/16/2008 10:36:30 PM   
hadberz


Posts: 1590
Joined: 5/11/2000
From: Moncks Corner, SC
Status: offline
d3drm.dll is needed to play Spartan, Gates of Troy, and For Liberty. That is the only .dll for any Matrixgame that I know of. You can find it here http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1719896


(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 5
RE: New Vista Boy - 12/16/2008 10:51:36 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
Thanks a lot hadberz. I suppose other games elsewhere share the same problem, perhaps with a different dll.

(in reply to hadberz)
Post #: 6
RE: New Vista Boy - 12/17/2008 1:37:59 AM   
Gem35


Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
Hello Charles, I am a bit confused about what your post is actually asking.

However, it looks like your new gateway has the famous core I7 processor and a very nice video card(ati4850 is a great workhorse that can play any of the latest games flawlessly) and DDR3 RAM.
Nice hardware but the fact it is a gateway makes me make dirty faces.
Windows Vista will run like a champ on that hardware though.

I just upgraded to Vista 64 bit home premium myself and just love it, no issues at all.
Use Vista with confidence, for one it is ALOT more secure than XP will ever be(XP is hacked so bad by now, afterall it is a 9 year old OS)and though Vista does not like "older" programs, think about it, do you really need older stuff anyways?
I would wager that Vista can and will run any Matrix game title without issue.
Relax and enjoy that new PC, I'd love to have an Intel Core I7 now but will upgrade later when prices for those new chips come down a bit.

_____________________________

It doesn't make any sense, Admiral. Were we better than the Japanese or just luckier?


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(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 7
RE: New Vista Boy - 12/17/2008 5:24:24 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
Thanks gem35. Everybody always says that about new OS's, that they're always so much more secure, but I think it's more a cliche than anything. We just assume the latest version is always best, and naturally, there's always somebody in the company that is willing to tell us it will do everything we ever dreamed. It's just like we assume that the lastets patch on a game is always the best. That used to be true. Well, actually, a lot of times the latest patch is the most stable, but if you were stable in the first place you may not be thereafter, and even if that isn't so, I have seen games (Civ4 comes to mind) where some of the patches were to be dreaded. Not because they were unstable, but because some looney decided the game wasn't hard enough, or it was so bland that the entire point of the game had to be switched to something else.

Vista has done some fairly peculiar things to me so far. I have had at least one total collapse, and things are fairly dodgy becuase I have a BUNCH of stuff that is totally new to me. New OS, new AV, new UPS (have never had one before to make matters worse), a little used LCD HDTV converted to be the monitor, among other things. This morning say arounf 6:15 power went out in the area. My UPS is supposed to enable you to be powered while runninng the computer for up to 79 minutes I think. So I wake up anbd see it's lit solid green on noth lights, as though it's fully charged, or at least not low yet. I turn on the computer, and lo and behold what happens? Within a minute or two it completely shuts me down, which is expected when it runs out. Within minutes, one of the green lights flashes red, and shortly after it's completely dead. Now tell me, if all I have is a modem and answering machine being powered by UPS (when the computer and monitor are off), and the power has been down for only 90 minutes by that point, just where is the ability to keep my computer running. I can't see those two devices drawing that much power in that length of time. Anyway so many new things.

No, wait, it's worse than that. If the power is off, the UPS is powering nothing, unless you turn those devices back on manually, such as I did with the computer and monitor (OTOH I'm not entiely sure those 2 devices weren't being powered by it). Hmm, seems there's more to learn about that UPS. Other than cutting off modem data when the computer is down or off, this UPS if it works at all, could had provided me with the means of contacting the electric company instead of having to go for an outside phone somewhere. My, this UPS, if it works, is a pretty durn good thing to have for things that are not quite so obvious like keeping a steady flow of power to the computer and allowing a graceful shhutdown during power loss. If it will only stay up for 70 minutes after power is lost, whether anything is drawing that power or not, it's not quite as useful as one might think. I guess I will have to, ugh, do some more reading or call the UPS support.

< Message edited by Charles_22 -- 12/17/2008 5:27:11 PM >

(in reply to Gem35)
Post #: 8
RE: New Vista Boy - 12/17/2008 7:24:40 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
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Here's a good article about Vista:

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/windows-vista-solutions,review-1179.html

PoE (aka ivanmoe)


_____________________________

Government is the opiate of the masses.

(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 9
RE: New Vista Boy - 12/17/2008 7:47:16 PM   
E

 

Posts: 1247
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

...and though Vista does not like "older" programs, think about it, do you really need older stuff anyways?

Very much so, yes. (I still play games from the 80's... needless to say, no vistas on my horizon)

(in reply to Gem35)
Post #: 10
RE: New Vista Boy - 12/17/2008 11:42:49 PM   
Gem35


Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

Thanks gem35. Everybody always says that about new OS's, that they're always so much more secure, but I think it's more a cliche than anything. We just assume the latest version is always best, and naturally, there's always somebody in the company that is willing to tell us it will do everything we ever dreamed. It's just like we assume that the lastets patch on a game is always the best. That used to be true. Well, actually, a lot of times the latest patch is the most stable, but if you were stable in the first place you may not be thereafter, and even if that isn't so, I have seen games (Civ4 comes to mind) where some of the patches were to be dreaded. Not because they were unstable, but because some looney decided the game wasn't hard enough, or it was so bland that the entire point of the game had to be switched to something else.

Vista has done some fairly peculiar things to me so far. I have had at least one total collapse, and things are fairly dodgy becuase I have a BUNCH of stuff that is totally new to me. New OS, new AV, new UPS (have never had one before to make matters worse), a little used LCD HDTV converted to be the monitor, among other things. This morning say arounf 6:15 power went out in the area. My UPS is supposed to enable you to be powered while runninng the computer for up to 79 minutes I think. So I wake up anbd see it's lit solid green on noth lights, as though it's fully charged, or at least not low yet. I turn on the computer, and lo and behold what happens? Within a minute or two it completely shuts me down, which is expected when it runs out. Within minutes, one of the green lights flashes red, and shortly after it's completely dead. Now tell me, if all I have is a modem and answering machine being powered by UPS (when the computer and monitor are off), and the power has been down for only 90 minutes by that point, just where is the ability to keep my computer running. I can't see those two devices drawing that much power in that length of time. Anyway so many new things.

No, wait, it's worse than that. If the power is off, the UPS is powering nothing, unless you turn those devices back on manually, such as I did with the computer and monitor (OTOH I'm not entiely sure those 2 devices weren't being powered by it). Hmm, seems there's more to learn about that UPS. Other than cutting off modem data when the computer is down or off, this UPS if it works at all, could had provided me with the means of contacting the electric company instead of having to go for an outside phone somewhere. My, this UPS, if it works, is a pretty durn good thing to have for things that are not quite so obvious like keeping a steady flow of power to the computer and allowing a graceful shhutdown during power loss. If it will only stay up for 70 minutes after power is lost, whether anything is drawing that power or not, it's not quite as useful as one might think. I guess I will have to, ugh, do some more reading or call the UPS support.


I used to be one of those Vista haters, but since Service Pack one came out, I wouldn't consider running any other OS on my PCs.
And trust me, XP is about as secure as your front and back doors left wide open.

Vista is overkill in the security department and I love it just for that simple fact alone.
I have yet to have ANY spyware or malicious little bugs since going to Vista where before running XP I would have to run anti-spyware daily to remove hundreds of spyware files.

You can believe what you like sir, XP is a good OS but Vista and the upcoming Windows 7 are/will be many times better.
I am sorry you are having trouble. Good luck to you.

_____________________________

It doesn't make any sense, Admiral. Were we better than the Japanese or just luckier?


Banner By Feurer Krieg

(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 11
RE: New Vista Boy - 12/17/2008 11:43:17 PM   
Arctic Blast


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Status: offline
One good way to help backwards compatibility with older games is making sure you have the older frameworks installed on your system. I have Vista as well, and I haven't had that many issues running older titles. Install Direct X9.0c (it installs alongside DX 10)...whatever the newest re-dist of it is. Then install all of the older .Net frameworks and any service packs for them.

_____________________________

Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily.

(in reply to E)
Post #: 12
RE: New Vista Boy - 12/18/2008 12:23:10 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

Vista is overkill in the security department and I love it just for that simple fact alone.
I have yet to have ANY spyware or malicious little bugs since going to Vista where before running XP I would have to run anti-spyware daily to remove hundreds of spyware files.


If it's so secure, why does Microsoft keep issuing security patches for it?

PoE (aka ivanmoe


_____________________________

Government is the opiate of the masses.

(in reply to Gem35)
Post #: 13
RE: New Vista Boy - 12/18/2008 7:18:59 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35


quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

Thanks gem35. Everybody always says that about new OS's, that they're always so much more secure, but I think it's more a cliche than anything. We just assume the latest version is always best, and naturally, there's always somebody in the company that is willing to tell us it will do everything we ever dreamed. It's just like we assume that the lastets patch on a game is always the best. That used to be true. Well, actually, a lot of times the latest patch is the most stable, but if you were stable in the first place you may not be thereafter, and even if that isn't so, I have seen games (Civ4 comes to mind) where some of the patches were to be dreaded. Not because they were unstable, but because some looney decided the game wasn't hard enough, or it was so bland that the entire point of the game had to be switched to something else.

Vista has done some fairly peculiar things to me so far. I have had at least one total collapse, and things are fairly dodgy becuase I have a BUNCH of stuff that is totally new to me. New OS, new AV, new UPS (have never had one before to make matters worse), a little used LCD HDTV converted to be the monitor, among other things. This morning say arounf 6:15 power went out in the area. My UPS is supposed to enable you to be powered while runninng the computer for up to 79 minutes I think. So I wake up anbd see it's lit solid green on noth lights, as though it's fully charged, or at least not low yet. I turn on the computer, and lo and behold what happens? Within a minute or two it completely shuts me down, which is expected when it runs out. Within minutes, one of the green lights flashes red, and shortly after it's completely dead. Now tell me, if all I have is a modem and answering machine being powered by UPS (when the computer and monitor are off), and the power has been down for only 90 minutes by that point, just where is the ability to keep my computer running. I can't see those two devices drawing that much power in that length of time. Anyway so many new things.

No, wait, it's worse than that. If the power is off, the UPS is powering nothing, unless you turn those devices back on manually, such as I did with the computer and monitor (OTOH I'm not entiely sure those 2 devices weren't being powered by it). Hmm, seems there's more to learn about that UPS. Other than cutting off modem data when the computer is down or off, this UPS if it works at all, could had provided me with the means of contacting the electric company instead of having to go for an outside phone somewhere. My, this UPS, if it works, is a pretty durn good thing to have for things that are not quite so obvious like keeping a steady flow of power to the computer and allowing a graceful shhutdown during power loss. If it will only stay up for 70 minutes after power is lost, whether anything is drawing that power or not, it's not quite as useful as one might think. I guess I will have to, ugh, do some more reading or call the UPS support.


I used to be one of those Vista haters, but since Service Pack one came out, I wouldn't consider running any other OS on my PCs.
And trust me, XP is about as secure as your front and back doors left wide open.

Vista is overkill in the security department and I love it just for that simple fact alone.
I have yet to have ANY spyware or malicious little bugs since going to Vista where before running XP I would have to run anti-spyware daily to remove hundreds of spyware files.

You can believe what you like sir, XP is a good OS but Vista and the upcoming Windows 7 are/will be many times better.
I am sorry you are having trouble. Good luck to you.

Interesting that we have such different experiences. I never had any spy sort of thing that I recall on XP, or it was so far back that the memory fails. Running spybot was always a waste of time, though I did it anyway just in case. I can't say the system was always clean though, as I did pick up something that Norton would clear every once in a while.

So you reach a dilemma. I have more to learn about my new AV, Kaspersky that is, but tell me where the failure is one this one matter. The matter is that I can't ever recall having any intruder alerts on my pc with Norton. Maybe it was switched off, maybe it didn't screen for that. I don't know. And now Kaspersky is very regularly letting intruders onto my Vista. So which is the bad AV? I have emailed support at Kaspersky since I don't entirely understand the intrusion thing. I suspect that allows people to get on, but then they can't do anything. Elsewise, what's the point in telling me the intrusion wasn't blocked? I haven't seen anything to suggest the message has a point beyond making me feel like it's open season on me. So again, is that an AV fault or OS? Strangely enough, they haven't intruded all day today.

I know that Vista has an SP2 pack out, but I don't think I will be touching it until somebody gives me a strong reason for that, because at least for the time being I have to get more used to my setup.


< Message edited by Charles_22 -- 12/18/2008 7:20:32 PM >

(in reply to Gem35)
Post #: 14
RE: New Vista Boy - 12/20/2008 3:55:29 PM   
Gem35


Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35


quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

Thanks gem35. Everybody always says that about new OS's, that they're always so much more secure, but I think it's more a cliche than anything. We just assume the latest version is always best, and naturally, there's always somebody in the company that is willing to tell us it will do everything we ever dreamed. It's just like we assume that the lastets patch on a game is always the best. That used to be true. Well, actually, a lot of times the latest patch is the most stable, but if you were stable in the first place you may not be thereafter, and even if that isn't so, I have seen games (Civ4 comes to mind) where some of the patches were to be dreaded. Not because they were unstable, but because some looney decided the game wasn't hard enough, or it was so bland that the entire point of the game had to be switched to something else.

Vista has done some fairly peculiar things to me so far. I have had at least one total collapse, and things are fairly dodgy becuase I have a BUNCH of stuff that is totally new to me. New OS, new AV, new UPS (have never had one before to make matters worse), a little used LCD HDTV converted to be the monitor, among other things. This morning say arounf 6:15 power went out in the area. My UPS is supposed to enable you to be powered while runninng the computer for up to 79 minutes I think. So I wake up anbd see it's lit solid green on noth lights, as though it's fully charged, or at least not low yet. I turn on the computer, and lo and behold what happens? Within a minute or two it completely shuts me down, which is expected when it runs out. Within minutes, one of the green lights flashes red, and shortly after it's completely dead. Now tell me, if all I have is a modem and answering machine being powered by UPS (when the computer and monitor are off), and the power has been down for only 90 minutes by that point, just where is the ability to keep my computer running. I can't see those two devices drawing that much power in that length of time. Anyway so many new things.

No, wait, it's worse than that. If the power is off, the UPS is powering nothing, unless you turn those devices back on manually, such as I did with the computer and monitor (OTOH I'm not entiely sure those 2 devices weren't being powered by it). Hmm, seems there's more to learn about that UPS. Other than cutting off modem data when the computer is down or off, this UPS if it works at all, could had provided me with the means of contacting the electric company instead of having to go for an outside phone somewhere. My, this UPS, if it works, is a pretty durn good thing to have for things that are not quite so obvious like keeping a steady flow of power to the computer and allowing a graceful shhutdown during power loss. If it will only stay up for 70 minutes after power is lost, whether anything is drawing that power or not, it's not quite as useful as one might think. I guess I will have to, ugh, do some more reading or call the UPS support.


I used to be one of those Vista haters, but since Service Pack one came out, I wouldn't consider running any other OS on my PCs.
And trust me, XP is about as secure as your front and back doors left wide open.

Vista is overkill in the security department and I love it just for that simple fact alone.
I have yet to have ANY spyware or malicious little bugs since going to Vista where before running XP I would have to run anti-spyware daily to remove hundreds of spyware files.

You can believe what you like sir, XP is a good OS but Vista and the upcoming Windows 7 are/will be many times better.
I am sorry you are having trouble. Good luck to you.

Interesting that we have such different experiences. I never had any spy sort of thing that I recall on XP, or it was so far back that the memory fails. Running spybot was always a waste of time, though I did it anyway just in case. I can't say the system was always clean though, as I did pick up something that Norton would clear every once in a while.

So you reach a dilemma. I have more to learn about my new AV, Kaspersky that is, but tell me where the failure is one this one matter. The matter is that I can't ever recall having any intruder alerts on my pc with Norton. Maybe it was switched off, maybe it didn't screen for that. I don't know. And now Kaspersky is very regularly letting intruders onto my Vista. So which is the bad AV? I have emailed support at Kaspersky since I don't entirely understand the intrusion thing. I suspect that allows people to get on, but then they can't do anything. Elsewise, what's the point in telling me the intrusion wasn't blocked? I haven't seen anything to suggest the message has a point beyond making me feel like it's open season on me. So again, is that an AV fault or OS? Strangely enough, they haven't intruded all day today.

I know that Vista has an SP2 pack out, but I don't think I will be touching it until somebody gives me a strong reason for that, because at least for the time being I have to get more used to my setup.



I use Ad-Aware.
It is a nice free program that will remove alot of junk that Nortons won't be able to.
Depending on your internet usage, you may find it helpful, especially in XP.
Nothing is for sure in life except death and taxes but again, for me personally, I trust Vista alot more than XP to be a secure OS.
Another thing, if you do use the internet to purchase anything, use credit cards and not your debit/check card.

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RE: New Vista Boy - 12/20/2008 4:39:57 PM   
Gem35


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

Vista is overkill in the security department and I love it just for that simple fact alone.
I have yet to have ANY spyware or malicious little bugs since going to Vista where before running XP I would have to run anti-spyware daily to remove hundreds of spyware files.


If it's so secure, why does Microsoft keep issuing security patches for it?

PoE (aka ivanmoe



You are joking, right?
Why do they issue new security patches?
Maybe they need to keep out the wonderful people who just love to cause trouble in this beautiful world we live in.


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RE: New Vista Boy - 12/21/2008 9:39:38 AM   
killroyishere

 

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Try running Combat Mission Barbarossa on Vista. In fact try running all of the Combat Mission before CMSF on Vista and tell us how it worked out. Also, try running games like Age of Rifles and give DosBox a whirl on it. If you can get all that going without a hitch then Vista might actually be a good product. But, since it is such a resource hog even moreso than XP for the little that it adds and the much pain and suffering that it causes overall it's just not worth the upgrade until a lot of new games 'require' it. I've seen no need to upgrade to Vista except for those that want to say I got it because it was there types. When there is truely a need like running dual or triple video cards then I might consider it, but, by that time Windows 7 will be out and Vista will just be another memory in the past like the Millenium Edition before XP.

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RE: New Vista Boy - 12/21/2008 1:54:22 PM   
Ron

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

Try running Combat Mission Barbarossa on Vista. In fact try running all of the Combat Mission before CMSF on Vista and tell us how it worked out. Also, try running games like Age of Rifles and give DosBox a whirl on it. If you can get all that going without a hitch then Vista might actually be a good product. But, since it is such a resource hog even moreso than XP for the little that it adds and the much pain and suffering that it causes overall it's just not worth the upgrade until a lot of new games 'require' it. I've seen no need to upgrade to Vista except for those that want to say I got it because it was there types. When there is truely a need like running dual or triple video cards then I might consider it, but, by that time Windows 7 will be out and Vista will just be another memory in the past like the Millenium Edition before XP.



I have CMBB and CMAK running on Vista without a hitch. The problem isn't Vista itself but the DirectX 10 drivers for the newer video cards from what I understand. Apparently you can install directX 9 alongside 10 to remedy this but I don't know.

I'm quite happy with Vista, it has matured quite well. People tend to forget that every MS OS has been shaky out of the box, XP and Windows 7 included I'm sure.


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RE: New Vista Boy - 12/21/2008 2:04:07 PM   
Gem35


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron


quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

Try running Combat Mission Barbarossa on Vista. In fact try running all of the Combat Mission before CMSF on Vista and tell us how it worked out. Also, try running games like Age of Rifles and give DosBox a whirl on it. If you can get all that going without a hitch then Vista might actually be a good product. But, since it is such a resource hog even moreso than XP for the little that it adds and the much pain and suffering that it causes overall it's just not worth the upgrade until a lot of new games 'require' it. I've seen no need to upgrade to Vista except for those that want to say I got it because it was there types. When there is truely a need like running dual or triple video cards then I might consider it, but, by that time Windows 7 will be out and Vista will just be another memory in the past like the Millenium Edition before XP.



I have CMBB and CMAK running on Vista without a hitch. The problem isn't Vista itself but the DirectX 10 drivers for the newer video cards from what I understand. Apparently you can install directX 9 alongside 10 to remedy this but I don't know.

I'm quite happy with Vista, it has matured quite well. People tend to forget that every MS OS has been shaky out of the box, XP and Windows 7 included I'm sure.




Yea, directx 10 alone is worth the Vista inverstment.
Games never have looked more beautiful.
You will have to run directx9c along with directx10 for some games.
ALL of my games, even older titles like return to castle wolfenstein play just fine.
If you can't get Vista to run well you either don't have a machine capable or perhaps user error is responsible.
Again, I was a Vista doubter until SP1 was released.

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RE: New Vista Boy - 12/21/2008 10:40:19 PM   
Arctic Blast


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quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

Try running Combat Mission Barbarossa on Vista. In fact try running all of the Combat Mission before CMSF on Vista and tell us how it worked out. Also, try running games like Age of Rifles and give DosBox a whirl on it. If you can get all that going without a hitch then Vista might actually be a good product. But, since it is such a resource hog even moreso than XP for the little that it adds and the much pain and suffering that it causes overall it's just not worth the upgrade until a lot of new games 'require' it. I've seen no need to upgrade to Vista except for those that want to say I got it because it was there types. When there is truely a need like running dual or triple video cards then I might consider it, but, by that time Windows 7 will be out and Vista will just be another memory in the past like the Millenium Edition before XP.


I've had absolutely zero issues getting Dosbox apps to work in Vista. And while there are some graphics glitches in the earlier CM games, that has more to do with DX10-capable graphics cards drivers than Vista itself.

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RE: New Vista Boy - 12/22/2008 10:09:54 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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Well, it appears XP has gotten yet another reprieve:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10128132-75.html

Apparently, a lot of customers are selecting XP as a downgrade.


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RE: New Vista Boy - 12/22/2008 11:30:09 PM   
Gem35


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

Well, it appears XP has gotten yet another reprieve:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10128132-75.html

Apparently, a lot of customers are selecting XP as a downgrade.


Resistance is futile....

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RE: New Vista Boy - 12/23/2008 1:52:28 PM   
z1812


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Hi All,

I have been running XP on all our home computers until last Christmas when I bought my Wife a laptop with Vista as the OS. I was a bit worried about different hardware and software compatibility problems as she would be using this laptop for her business. I am gald to say there have been no problems at all. Zero.

My Step-Daughter now has vista and I have just purchased a new Desktop that also has vista and neither of us has had any difficulties.

At the office I just replaced all the computers and I did downgrade from vista to XP. That was simply because we run some older equipment and specialized software ( read old and no one wants to spend the time changing databases, sigh ), and of course people were nervous about having to learn a new operating system.

That is why I beleive many people stay with XP. They feel intimidated by a new OS. Vista is fine. I have to say I am quite surprised how quickly I adapted to it.

Regards John


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RE: New Vista Boy - 12/23/2008 4:27:20 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812
At the office I just replaced all the computers and I did downgrade from vista to XP. That was simply because we run some older equipment and specialized software ( read old and no one wants to spend the time changing databases, sigh ), and of course people were nervous about having to learn a new operating system.


I participated in a steering committee meeting for my city's IT department recently. They have about eight-hundred computers, mostly desktop/notebook. One of the committee's recommendations was that, pending future developments, the systems will NEVER be moved to Vista. Instead, the plan is to await a newer, less power-hungry OS, with fewer bells and whistles. If a "thinner" version of Windows doesn't arrive in a timely manner, the city will replace the desktops with terminals and move to virtualization technology with an eye towards reducing hardware, software and energy costs. Goodbye Windows OS.


quote:

That is why I believe many people stay with XP. They feel intimidated by a new OS.


Nah, I've got both OS on the computer that I'm using to key-in this post. I use XP for some stuff, and Vista for others. DX10 games are supposed to look better, but I can't see any differences when using an Nvidia 8800GTX. Sound is definitely better under XP using an X-Fi Titanium sound card.

As I've outlined in the past, there were truly enormous benefits in moving to XP:

1) Use of the NT Kernel meant that XP systems shouldn't crash from an application failure

2) Usable memory went from 256MB to 3GB+

3) The NTFS file system is much more efficient, secure and robust than FATx

Again, I've been looking at Vista on my home systems for two years now, and I don't see those sorts of benefits from the new OS. Vista doesn't have the level of "raw socket" vulnerability that XP did, but those problems have been ameliorated. IMO, what's fair to say about security issues is that Vista was more secure when it was released than was Windows XP. However, I'd once again note that Vista is downloading security updates on a more or less weekly basis, so all's not well with Vista, or the downloads wouldn't be occurring.

BTW, I've never had a virus on any of my home computers. I operate behind a NAT router and keep my systems patched. I'm careful about what I download and open. That's pretty much kept me covered in Windows XP since RC1.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)







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RE: New Vista Boy - 12/23/2008 10:04:05 PM   
Gem35


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Most older business use older computers, so going with a 64-bit OS like Vista would not be smart.
However there is no reason other than sheer cost that these same PCs could not run the "thinner" 32-bit version of Vista.

z1812 is correct, most folks don't want to learn a new OS or are afraid to try. Or simply do not have the knowledge of computer hardware to be able to discern if they can upgrade to Vista or not.
People don't like change.

As for the security patches, most are for windows defender a pretty much useless anti-spyware program.
They update the databases for known spyware.
If anyone uses anti-spyware programs or anti-virus programs they will have weekly or even daily updates as well.
Vista is alive and well folks.

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RE: New Vista Boy - 12/23/2008 11:36:22 PM   
Charles2222


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quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

Try running Combat Mission Barbarossa on Vista. In fact try running all of the Combat Mission before CMSF on Vista and tell us how it worked out. Also, try running games like Age of Rifles and give DosBox a whirl on it. If you can get all that going without a hitch then Vista might actually be a good product. But, since it is such a resource hog even moreso than XP for the little that it adds and the much pain and suffering that it causes overall it's just not worth the upgrade until a lot of new games 'require' it. I've seen no need to upgrade to Vista except for those that want to say I got it because it was there types. When there is truely a need like running dual or triple video cards then I might consider it, but, by that time Windows 7 will be out and Vista will just be another memory in the past like the Millenium Edition before XP.

In my case, my XP machine had partially broken down, and you're looking at repairs being several hundred dollars. I thought it was better spent on a new machine with Vista. I had noticed that in the last year or so the games I played almost exclusively were Vista capable. It's not that I won't miss the XP games, but I'm not totally left out anyway, as I can spend several hundred dollars to run dual OS on this Vista. I guess WITP AE won't be Vista compatible.

Now I have quite a while before I have to worry about my video card(s) being left in the dust. This machine, I'm sure, will run Battle of Britain very well, it's now just a matter of whether I really want the game or not. I suppose the all-out best thing to do would be to have a new machine with Vista and XP both, but for now I don't see spending the extra for a dual OS. If I get lonesome for some winSPWW2 again, that may soon change.

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RE: New Vista Boy - 12/23/2008 11:38:17 PM   
Charles2222


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So how can you run two directx's? Wouldn't 10 overwrite the earlier one?

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RE: New Vista Boy - 12/24/2008 12:50:19 AM   
2ndACR


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I have yet to find a game published in the last 5 years that I can not run on Vista........WITP runs without a problem on Vista. Mine anyway. AE will run just as smoothly.

Every Matrix game I own runs with no problems on Vista.

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RE: New Vista Boy - 12/24/2008 7:21:47 AM   
killroyishere

 

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This is one of the most important features that sealed Vistas doom.

quote:


The Benchmarks
We take a quantitative look at Vista and XP performance to determine exactly what penalty, if any, you pay when you upgrade to Windows Vista
To test Vista versus XP performance, we built what we think is a fairly middle-of-the-road rig—an Intel Q6600 quad core with 2GB of memory and a GeForce 8800 GTS videocard. We then ran a battery of benchmarks in three different OS environments: XP with Service Pack 3, Vista sans Service Pack 1 (with modern Nvidia drivers installed), and Vista with SP1. Our tests measure everything from overall system performance to network speed to gaming prowess.
Overall Performance
Unsurprisingly, Windows XP remains faster in almost all of our standard system benchmarks. More noteworthy is how SP1 has improved Vista’s performance, narrowing the gap between that OS and XP in key tests and even allowing Vista to surpass XP in our MainConcept encoder test.
Unfortunately for Vista, our desktop benchmarks do reveal areas where Vista continues to suffer substantial performance hits compared to XP, namely in ProShow and Quake 4. We’ve talked to the ProShow developers, and they don’t know what causes the slowdown with their app in Vista, but they’re investigating. We attribute the Quake 4 performance hit to poor OpenGL drivers in Vista.
As we mentioned before, we’re perfectly willing to sacrifice a few percentage points of performance from an operating system upgrade. However, the difference between Vista SP1 and XP SP3 in ProShow and Quake 4 reaches a dismal 10 to 25 percent.


It's not the fact that it merely runs things it's the fact that it doesn't run them well or at optimum performance levels vs XP.

More quoteable quotes from Microsoft itself about Vista. They even admit they botched it all up and tried to blame it on everybody else but themselves.

quote:

Microsoft Concedes Vista Launch Problems
Abandoning the pretense that Vista is the perfect OS, Microsoft reps sat down with us to discuss the OS’s problems in a (kind of) frank conversation

We were surprised when Microsoft reps agreed to discuss Vista’s launch problems and what the company has done to fix them. We were surprised not only that they agreed to answer our questions with candor, but that they were speaking to us at all. Our initial conversation occurred in June and set the stage for the article you’re reading. This dialogue also marked the first time in eight years that we had a private conversation with any Microsoft employee without a PR manager present.

The answers we got during this mid-June background conversation were brutally honest: Our source, a high-ranking Windows product manager, conceded that Microsoft botched the Vista launch. He added that the company’s biggest concern wasn’t the OS but rather the eroded faith in Microsoft’s flagship product among users of all types and experience levels.

Our conversation was refreshingly frank, and no topic appeared off limits. To wit:

Our Microsoft source blamed bad drivers from GPU companies and printer companies for the majority of Vista’s early stability problems.|
He described User Account Control as poorly implemented but defended it as necessary for the continued health of the Windows platform.
He admitted that spending the money to port DirectX 10 to Windows XP would have been worth the expense.
He assailed OEM system builders for including bad, buggy, or just plain useless apps on their machines in exchange for a few bucks on the back end.
He described the Games for Windows initiative as a disaster, with nothing more than 64-bit compatibility for games to show for years of effort.
He conceded that Apple appeals to more and more consumers because the hardware is slick, the price is OK, and Apple doesn’t annoy its customers (or allow third parties to).
Yes, the June conversation was dazzlingly candid, and we were looking forward to an equally blunt follow-up meeting—a scheduled late-July on-the-record interview with Erik Lustig, a senior product manager responsible for Windows Fundamentals. But then the universe as we know it returned to normal, and Microsoft became Microsoft again. Our interview with Lustig was overseen by a PR representative and was filled with the type of carefully measured language that we’ve come to expect from Microsoft when discussing “challenges.” A “challenge” is Microsoftese for anything that isn’t going according to the company’s carefully choreographed plans. In the text that follows, we’ve combined the information conveyed during the mid-June background conversation with decoded translations of the “on the record” conversation we had in July. The contrast between the two interviews is stunning.

We herewith give you a snapshot of Microsoft’s take on Vista launch problems.

Stability
According to now-public internal Microsoft memos, 18 percent of all Vista crashes reported during the months immediately following its launch were due to unstable Nvidia graphics card drivers.

Microsoft has never issued any public comment concerning who’s to blame for the driver crashes, but during our background conversation, our source conceded that hardware OEMs were writing WDDM (Windows Display Driver Model) drivers for a moving target during Vista’s beta and release-candidate periods. Our source told us that because of low-level OS changes, hardware vendors didn’t have sufficient time to develop and test their drivers. This mirrors what Steven Sinofsky, the head of the Windows team, said in an interview with Cnet earlier this year: “The schedule challenges that we had, and the information disclosure weren’t consistent with the realities of the project, which made it all a much trickier end point when we got to general availability in January.”

Launch problems aside, once Vista is updated with SP1, it seems much more reliable than it was early on. The Maximum PC Lab isn’t equipped for long-term stability testing, but in our anecdotal experience, Vista’s stability problems are largely fixed, even on somewhat exotic hardware. Whether Vista is more stable than WinXP really depends on the actual hardware configuration you’re using more than anything else.

Compatibility

While discussing this story on background, Microsoft placed blame for incompatible software and hardware on its third-party partners. However, during our on-the-record chat, Lustig simply said, “I honestly don’t have the exact numbers for that,” in reference to the ratio of crashes attributed to Microsoft versus third-party entities.

Regardless, we’re well aware that Microsoft had been talking to hardware and software developers about Vista compatibility issues since the 2005 Meltdown, Microsoft’s annual gaming conference. At that conference, Microsoft informed game developers that they needed to write apps that behaved well, or they would face problems with Vista. The requirements were, for the most part, simple—caveats like not writing to C:/Program Files/ or C:/Windows/.

It’s also important to note a shameful truth that everyone in the PC industry is aware of but rarely discusses: When a new OS comes out, third-party vendors will often withhold compatibility support in order to drive sales of new units, turning the cost of supporting a new OS from a liability into a source of revenue. The same goes for software like antivirus utilities and some CD/DVD burning apps, both of which hook into the OS very closely.



And now the light at the end of the tunner or the "I Told you So Syndrome"

quote:

After Windows Vista's disappointing performance versus Windows XP, and controversial benchmarks of a pre-beta build of Windows 7, everyone's wondering how Windows 7 compares, not just with Windows Vista, but also with the "operating system that will not die" (Windows XP SP3).

ZDNet's Hardware 2.0 maven, Adrian Kingsley-Hughes, rose to the challenge and has put Windows 7 build 6956 up against Vista SP1, Vista RTM (the original and worst), and Windows XP SP3 in three benchmarks: boot time, Passmark Performance Test 6.1, and Cinebench R10.

Not surprisingly, Windows Vista SP1 blew the doors off its RTM ancestor, but was similarly run off the road by Windows 7, which also made Windows XP SP3 eat its dust in virtually every test. The only test in which Windows XP SP3 held off its two-generation newer rival was in the OpenGL version of the Cinebench R10 benchmark. If this performance level continues until Windows 7 sees the light of day sometime next year, Windows 7 users will be very happy, and Windows XP diehards who have resisted "Mojave" will finally upgrade.



Windows 7 is showing it is going to blow XP and Vista off the map in performance and as stated just like Millenium faltered and fell so to will Vista as Windows 7 makes it to the forefront in the near future. As someone else said about 'resistance is futile' Windows 7 will rule the day. Going to be a nice OS upgrade with the new Intel processors I7's kinda coincidental don't you think? I7 and Windows 7?

One more fact in closing. Most users just weren't ready for a new OS when Vista was released. XP was running fine and well and the immediate turn off was no directx 10 capability for their well beloved XP OS. Microsoft even admitted it wouldn't have been that much of an expense to convert dx10 to XP, but, for 'projected' sales and revenue I'm pretty sure that's why they didn't do it and it backfired on them as anyone can see just reading the articles and the uproar about Vista.

For those that have Vista and are happy with it I don't begrudge you I'm glad you don't have the headaches that Vista once was out of the chute. But, had you waited you could have gotten the better performing Windows 7 in a few more months since Vista just isn't necessary for gaming atm. It hardly has a library of dx10 games only and the ones that it does certainly doesn't warrant an upgrade to it. I'm more than happy with XP still and will take a good look at Win7 before I buy as I did Vista and didn't buy. I was a diehard Win98 user as well though when XP came out and I did the 'I told you so's' about Windows Millenium as well. Does anyone still run Windows Millenium by the way here?

< Message edited by killroyishere -- 12/24/2008 7:51:59 AM >

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Post #: 29
RE: New Vista Boy - 12/24/2008 10:10:50 PM   
Arctic Blast


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

So how can you run two directx's? Wouldn't 10 overwrite the earlier one?


I'll be honest, I really don't understand how it works. I do know, though, that I keep my DX 9C updated all the time, and my DX10 setup is still intact.


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