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New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/21/2008 9:18:39 PM   
Greg Wilcox

 

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A new version of the 1.30 Update is now available as a Public Beta via our Members Club. While we do final testing we figured we'd offer you a change to get it early as well. This is still a beta, but it's stable and solid as far as we can tell. Barring any major issues being found, this will become the official update.

You can download this as a Registered Download as long as you have registered your Guns of August serial number in our Members Club (click on the MEMBERS link in the top nav bar).

Changes from 1.25

Features
1. Upgraded the AI to make it more active, less "stand pat".
2. Upgraded AI to make it a bit "smarter" tactically
3. Upgraded CP AI so as to produce a greater chance of the CP AI not following an "east first" strategy.
4. Increased possibility of other neutrals being outraged by attacks on Belgium and Holland.
5. Allowed neutrals to be concerned by more than 1 invasion of a neutral per turn.
6. Increased size of naval groupings. Affects battles and searches.
7. Completely rewrote transfers of RMs, food and Industry points between countries. There are now overland and overseas transfers, the overseas requiring a port which is a national port if available or an allied one. It should now be possible as an example, to transfer food from Britain to Russia by using shipping in the Atlantic, West Med and East Med to the Greek port of Salonika and then overland through a conquered Bulgaria and an allied Romania to Odessa. I still have some tweaks to do on this but it should be pretty close. One thing that is not done at this time is the limits on transfers caused by the value of the route and another is allied minor country resources are not available.
8. Added a small piece of text to the display of hex data, to the right of the trench strength will now display somehting like "F:1 R:0 I:0" as you pass the mouse over. Its the actual amount of food, raw material and industry in a hex which should clear up concerns where more than one is in a hex but that isn't displayed by the icon.


Fixes
1. Fixed an isolated city problem. The case mentioned here being a surrounded Posen.
2. Fixed a 1 impulse delay on British units amphibbing to France before they could use rail movement in France.
3. The fact the the TE player wasn't getting the "sunk" message for his own ships.
4. New York overstacking problem.
5. Terrain value of hexes 31,41 and 32,41
6. Fixed naval transport icon


_____________________________

Greg Wilcox
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Post #: 1
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/21/2008 10:38:58 PM   
Lascar


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Just installed the latest update and I have noticed a few problems.

1.The rail capacity of all nations is reduced.
Germany=down to 24 from 36
Austria=10 (I thought they were going to be increased from 12 to 18.
Turkey=down to 4 from 10

Russia=20 instead of 24
Britain=16
France=16

2.Testing the Mar/Apr Strategic phase Britain has the option to transfer to both Petrograd and Sevastopol, bypassing CP controlled Constantinople and Baltic Sea. Likewise Russia can now transfer to the British ports and India.

3.The Jan/Feb winter turn now has two impulses instead of the previous one impulse.


That's it for now.


< Message edited by Lascar -- 11/21/2008 11:06:32 PM >

(in reply to Greg Wilcox)
Post #: 2
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/21/2008 11:39:18 PM   
FrankHunter

 

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I didn't make any changes to rail capacity. As of the Nov-Dec 1914 turn, Britain still has 24, Russia still has 24, France still has 18, Germany still has 36 and Austria still has 12.

You had a blank in the Transfers box? Which country?

Britain is allowed to order transfers of material to Sevastopol and Petrograd regardless of who controls the Baltic Sea or Constantinople.

There were no changes to the number of impulses per turn and I'm still seeing just 1 impulse for Jan-Feb.

I can't explain the results you're getting, perhaps there's been a data mixup. I'll check to make sure the right scenario data was uploaded.



(in reply to Lascar)
Post #: 3
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/21/2008 11:58:07 PM   
Lascar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

I didn't make any changes to rail capacity. As of the Nov-Dec 1914 turn, Britain still has 24, Russia still has 24, France still has 18, Germany still has 36 and Austria still has 12.

You had a blank in the Transfers box? Which country?

Britain is allowed to order transfers of material to Sevastopol and Petrograd regardless of who controls the Baltic Sea or Constantinople.

There were no changes to the number of impulses per turn and I'm still seeing just 1 impulse for Jan-Feb.

I can't explain the results you're getting, perhaps there's been a data mixup. I'll check to make sure the right scenario data was uploaded.





There is no blank in the transfer box after I double checked so I deleted that one from my list of possible bugs.

I should note that I observed the option for Britain to transfer materials to Russia in the Mar/Apr 1915 turn so there was no alternate overland route through the Balkans allowing Britain to transfer materials to Russia.

This will really tilt the balance of the game strongly in favor of the TE. Forcing Russia into revolution will now become virtually impossible.

I thought you were open to increasing the Austrian capacity to 18 since at 12 they are at half of what Russia has and only two over Turkey even though Austria had a more developed transportation infrastructure than either Russia or Turkey. This not only hinders the Austrians from transferring their corps but also the movement of any German corps within AH territory. One of the few advantages that the CP has of interior lines of communications is significantly diminished by this.





< Message edited by Lascar -- 11/22/2008 12:07:12 AM >

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 4
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 12:13:15 AM   
FrankHunter

 

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But Austria didn't get diminished, its the same as its always been, I didn't reduce their rail capacity. And although I'm open to increasing the number a bit it didn't seem to be a concern as no one else said they wanted to see it raised.

(in reply to Lascar)
Post #: 5
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 12:35:58 AM   
Lascar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

But Austria didn't get diminished, its the same as its always been, I didn't reduce their rail capacity. And although I'm open to increasing the number a bit it didn't seem to be a concern as no one else said they wanted to see it raised.

Perhaps they missed that discussion or haven't been playing the CP as often as I have been recently against a human player. I noticed it recently because in the last couple of games as CP I tried an early Romania invasion strategy in 1914. This allowed the Austrians to gain some surplus food and resources which they themselves didn't need but Germany did. They could only ship at best 4 resources/food per strategic phase to Germany if they were going to have even a very limited capacity to transport corps. I imagine this has not come to others' attention because Austria usually doesn't accumulate significant reserves. I suggested an increase to 18 because it at least, to a small degree, offsets some of the long term disadvantages facing the CP. It would make for a somewhat more balanced game.

< Message edited by Lascar -- 11/22/2008 12:39:50 AM >

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 6
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 1:39:05 AM   
BK6583

 

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"Britain is allowed to order transfers of material to Sevastopol and Petrograd regardless of who controls the Baltic Sea or Constantinople. "

Frank,

If that means food then I must question this strongly. If the Germans control the Baltic and the Turks the Dardenelles (by controlling Constantinople with your game system) then no matter the year, no food whatsoever should be allowed to be transferred - this is straight out historical. Britain did manage to ship a good deal of war materiel (not food) to Archangel, but it just sat there still in its crates as the Russians didn't have the infrastructure to move it. I play exclusively against the AI so I don't know if you have it programmed to take advantage of what seems to be a very ahistorical game situation - if you do, then I must wait a bit longer before I'm comfortable downloading today's version of 1.30.

Sincerely,

Bob

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 7
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 2:22:56 AM   
FrankHunter

 

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BK6583, it depends on how you look at it, as Britain you are also free to order your corps to march to Berlin. I don't prevent the order just because German units are in the way. Same with foreign trade. If you want to order food to be transported through the Baltic to Petrograd the game doesn't prevent you. You will also have to order transports to take up shipping missions in the Baltic and North Sea and again, I don't prevent you from sending those orders regardless of whether or not you have warships in those seas. I leave it up to the player to decide the likelihood of success rather than having the program decide in advance.


(in reply to BK6583)
Post #: 8
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 2:28:15 AM   
FrankHunter

 

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Lascar,

quote:

It would make for a somewhat more balanced game.


Austria is limited in its capacity to move troops around, for example they don't have the capacity to move their army from the Serbian front to the Italian front in one turn. Russia has the same issues trying to deploy its autumn reinforcements forward. I'm not sure this is a bad thing as their railnet lagged behind some of the other powers. Giving Austria the same capacity as France might be a small way to help the CP side but I'm just not convinced its the right thing to do yet although I'm certainly open to hearing what other's think.

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 9
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 2:42:18 AM   
FrankHunter

 

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For those who play mainly solitaire I would appreciate hearing whether you find the artificial opponent improved in 1.30 Both sides have been upgraded and the CP side has been given a sense of urgency.

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 10
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 4:53:07 AM   
FM WarB

 

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The whole purpose of the Gallipoli invasion was to open the Dardenales to Entente shipping. The Brits should not be able to ship food, or pass the Dardenales with naval units as long as Turkey controls the straits (on either side) with land units.

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 11
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 6:18:40 AM   
FrankHunter

 

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But I never changed the naval movement rules, didn't touch them. The inability of ships to move past a Constantinople on the CP side is still in the game.

(in reply to FM WarB)
Post #: 12
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 7:56:47 AM   
hjaco

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

But I never changed the naval movement rules, didn't touch them. The inability of ships to move past a Constantinople on the CP side is still in the game.


Huh? I assume you mean the Entente?

What if Russia builds transports for shipping in the Black Sea?

I might imagine British transports sneak through neutral Scandinavian countries and mine fields to the Baltic but I can't hardly see how that could happen through an active enemy occupied Dardanelles canal.

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 13
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 8:03:21 AM   
hjaco

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

BK6583, it depends on how you look at it, as Britain you are also free to order your corps to march to Berlin. I don't prevent the order just because German units are in the way. Same with foreign trade. If you want to order food to be transported through the Baltic to Petrograd the game doesn't prevent you. You will also have to order transports to take up shipping missions in the Baltic and North Sea and again, I don't prevent you from sending those orders regardless of whether or not you have warships in those seas. I leave it up to the player to decide the likelihood of success rather than having the program decide in advance.



Right but I thought you would make that depending upon the CP not controlling the Baltic? Yes Germany can send out cruisers on raid missions and even declare unrestricted SUB warfare in the Baltics to stop this.

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 14
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 8:42:16 AM   
ulver

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hjaco

What if Russia builds transports for shipping in the Black Sea?

I might imagine British transports sneak through neutral Scandinavian countries and mine fields to the Baltic but I can't hardly see how that could happen through an active enemy occupied Dardanelles canal.


I don't think Russia can build navel units in the black sea

(in reply to hjaco)
Post #: 15
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 11:49:54 AM   
hjaco

 

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With regard to transfer rules to Russia in 1.30 and their possible influence on the game please see the AAR I will make in short time.

(in reply to ulver)
Post #: 16
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 2:48:10 PM   
06 Maestro


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The improvements with the AI are quite noticable. It is making for a more challenging game.

(in reply to hjaco)
Post #: 17
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 4:47:46 PM   
BK6583

 

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Frank,

In what phase, i.e., Mobilization, Strat, Activation, or Orders does the AI 'decide' on its strategy? By that I mean so far with 1.30 with the very beginning in Aug 1914 I have tried restarting a saved mob game as TE, then restarting from the strat phase, then from the activation phase, and each time the AI goes East. If I'm trying to get a France first strategy out of the AI CP, at what phase should I try restarting to see when the 'dice' roll for AI CP France first?

Reagrds,

Bob

(in reply to Greg Wilcox)
Post #: 18
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 6:34:42 PM   
FrankHunter

 

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BK6583, Its right at the game start, just before mobilization. There's a 50% chance of "Schlieffen" being selected and he will go west. There's a 30% chance of "Moltke" being selected and he will go east. There's a 20% chance of "Falkenhayn" being selected and he will go for a balance which off the bat will look like an east-first strategy but over time he's more interested in knocking out Serbia, Romania, Italy. In each of the cases you listed the AI personality has already been selected.

(in reply to BK6583)
Post #: 19
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 6:42:35 PM   
FrankHunter

 

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quote:

Right but I thought you would make that depending upon the CP not controlling the Baltic?


In the end it sort of is. But when you give the order to ship food to Russia via Petrograd that is not resolved till just before the next turn's strategic phase. The game does not know what the situation will be at that time or if Germany will have so much as a single destroyer in the Baltic, so of course the order is allowed.

Whether or not food actually makes it to Russia depends on whether the shipping is sunk or not.

quote:

Yes Germany can send out cruisers on raid missions and even declare unrestricted SUB warfare in the Baltics to stop this.


Exactly, just as Russia can send a squadron into the Baltic to prevent Germany getting raw materials from Sweden. Or how Germany sends subs into the Atlantic to sink British transports, transfers now use the same rules.

Again, the program does not prevent Britain from sending 7 transports into the Atlantic on shipping missions even if the Germans have stationed 10 subs there. That decision is up to the British player. Transfers are the same.

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 20
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 6:48:23 PM   
FrankHunter

 

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quote:

I might imagine British transports sneak through neutral Scandinavian countries and mine fields to the Baltic but I can't hardly see how that could happen through an active enemy occupied Dardanelles canal.


It can't. Naval units cannot move through the Dardanelles if Gallipoli and Constantinople are enemy controlled. But since transfer orders are given a turn ahead of resolution the program assumes you know what you're doing and that you've taken measures to ensure the transfer succeeds before resolution.

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 21
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 7:09:28 PM   
Lascar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

quote:

I might imagine British transports sneak through neutral Scandinavian countries and mine fields to the Baltic but I can't hardly see how that could happen through an active enemy occupied Dardanelles canal.


It can't. Naval units cannot move through the Dardanelles if Gallipoli and Constantinople are enemy controlled. But since transfer orders are given a turn ahead of resolution the program assumes you know what you're doing and that you've taken measures to ensure the transfer succeeds before resolution.

So does that mean the only alternative route for transfers to Sevastapol is via Salonika and overland from there to Sevastapol?

Also, with regard to transfer to Petrograd, the TE would be required to have transports in both the North and Baltic seas?

< Message edited by Lascar -- 11/22/2008 7:13:26 PM >

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 22
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 10:12:03 PM   
FrankHunter

 

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quote:

So does that mean the only alternative route for transfers to Sevastapol is via Salonika and overland from there to Sevastapol?


That would be one alternative route. You could also ship food through the Middle East if you controlled Mesopotamia. But the limits of that line would be computed at the time.

quote:

Also, with regard to transfer to Petrograd, the TE would be required to have transports in both the North and Baltic seas?


Yes, which would have to survive that forthcoming turn's naval combat phases before they could take part in any transfers before the next strategic phase.


(in reply to Lascar)
Post #: 23
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 11:49:54 PM   
Lascar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

quote:

So does that mean the only alternative route for transfers to Sevastapol is via Salonika and overland from there to Sevastapol?


That would be one alternative route. You could also ship food through the Middle East if you controlled Mesopotamia. But the limits of that line would be computed at the time.

quote:

Also, with regard to transfer to Petrograd, the TE would be required to have transports in both the North and Baltic seas?


Yes, which would have to survive that forthcoming turn's naval combat phases before they could take part in any transfers before the next strategic phase.



OK, thanks Frank, now I am seeing the reasoning behind this and it now makes sense both historically and logically in terms of the game mechanics.

One other question, is the ratio for sea transfer a one to one ratio? In other words each transport allows the transfer of one food, IP or resource point.

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 24
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/22/2008 11:50:47 PM   
hjaco

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

quote:

Also, with regard to transfer to Petrograd, the TE would be required to have transports in both the North and Baltic seas?


Yes, which would have to survive that forthcoming turn's naval combat phases before they could take part in any transfers before the next strategic phase.



That depends Frank. I am currently engaged in a 1.30 game against Ulver albeit the previous beta version 0f 1.30. In that only shipping in the North Sea is required to send food resources to Russia.

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 25
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/23/2008 12:25:50 AM   
lordhoff


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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: hjaco

What if Russia builds transports for shipping in the Black Sea?

I might imagine British transports sneak through neutral Scandinavian countries and mine fields to the Baltic but I can't hardly see how that could happen through an active enemy occupied Dardanelles canal.



I don't think Russia can build navel units in the black sea


Ditto that. I have tried building Russian transports and they are built in Petrograd plus when I tried to rebase them to the Black Sea (all sea areas except Baltic were TE controlled which ended up contested that turn) they just disappeared (must be a Bermuda triangle somewhere between ) . I'm guessing that six-sea area movement is beyond the three-pulse system.

(in reply to ulver)
Post #: 26
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/23/2008 12:33:45 AM   
FrankHunter

 

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hjaco, I wasn't finished writing the new transfers module when the 1.30 test version was uploaded. Only in the one posted yesterday is it finally finished.

(in reply to lordhoff)
Post #: 27
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/23/2008 12:35:22 AM   
FrankHunter

 

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quote:

One other question, is the ratio for sea transfer a one to one ratio? In other words each transport allows the transfer of one food, IP or resource point.


One transport can carry 2 food/RMs/Indy. I had considered going 1:1 but other shipping is already 2:1 so I left it as is.

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 28
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/23/2008 9:08:19 AM   
hjaco

 

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So I have upgraded the latest 1.30 beta patch and have some comments:

1) The diplomacy bug has been fixed.

2) Britain still don't need transports in the Baltic in order to transfer resources to Russia. It is sufficient with transports on shipping orders in the North Sea.

3) Transfer in general works brilliant and is easy and logical to operate

4) German DOW on Belgium should be toned down a grade as worst case is having Italy enter 3 turns earlier and Bulgaria 3 turns later which is to steep (frankly I don't think they gave a damn). The rest is fine as it is.

5) Giving Britain the ability to transfer food to Russia in turn 1 where they for a large part was a neutral bystander and in any case where it was unclear whether Russia would be in need of that should not be allowed IMO. This is only possible because Britain as the only (and semi neutral) country has rail movements.

6) Removing the movement orders from rear areas speeds up execution of turns immensely

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 29
RE: New version of the 1.30 Public Beta has been uploaded - 11/23/2008 9:09:18 AM   
hjaco

 

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Oh I forgot. Can it be correct that the readme file on latest changes in the patch has not been updated?

(in reply to hjaco)
Post #: 30
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