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OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 12:51:56 AM   
scout1


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Just how incredibily stupid would it be for Somalian pirates to hijack a supertanker filled with oil ...... ?
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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 12:54:13 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: scout1

Just how incredibily stupid would it be for Somalian pirates to hijack a supertanker filled with oil ...... ?


I just hope that the crew gets off safely, and that all that oil doesn't end up on the surface of the Indian Ocean.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 1:14:48 AM   
Brady


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Acording to an AP article,  Piarets are making Big money, they estimate over 30 million this year alone in ransoms have been paid out.



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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 1:28:07 AM   
scout1


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Perhaps, but their lack of selecting

1) low/moderate value ships/cargo (ie a low profile)
2) countries/organizations that feel constrained in their response

Will eventually result in a very ugly point being made at a lot of locals expense ....

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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 1:40:29 AM   
Kingfisher

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: scout1

Just how incredibily stupid would it be for Somalian pirates to hijack a supertanker filled with oil ...... ?


Stupid why?

It would have been stupid to go hundreds of miles off their coast to hijack a run down coastal chugger hauling avocados.

A billion dollar ship carrying millions of gallons of the world's hottest commodity...well, thats another thing entirely...



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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 1:43:20 AM   
bigbaba


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the pirates are not stuppid..they exactly know that they can do that without getting trouble with the weak western nations.

how were the pirates in the caribian sea eliminated? how were the islamic pirates in the mediteranian sea defeated? through dialog? through TV debates?

no, they were hunted down..their bases were destroyed and they had no mercy to expect from the maritime powers which hunted them.

few months ago, a pirate boat fired at a german navy chopper in this area...the german frigate did NOTHING to eliminate the pirates..they just made a report to the HQ. and dont forget the once impressive and today paper tiger british royal navy which allowed that small speed boats of the "waffen SS" of the mullah dictatorship in iran captured 15 british soldiers, although a british DD was in visual range.

i came from iran...and i know, that only strengh does impress such people...islamic dictatorr or islamic pirates in somalia. they laugh about weak reactions like the people laughed at the british navy after they took no action to prevent their own soldiers from beeing captured. if you show weakness to this people, they even want more and more.

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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 1:53:14 AM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: scout1
Just how incredibily stupid would it be for Somalian pirates to hijack a supertanker filled with oil ...... ?

20 Somalian pirates, boom, dead;
20 Somalian pirates, boom, dead;
20 Somalian pirates, boom, dead;
20 Somalian pirates, boom, dead;
20 Somalian pirates, boom, dead;
20 Somalian pirates, whoops, $3 million in ransom;
20 Somalian pirates, boom, dead;
20 Somalian pirates, boom, dead;
Since a Somalian pirate (or any pirate) might get maybe $120 a year normally, the math looks pretty good, so long as they don't kill the goose, and nobody ever said pirates were stupid.

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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 2:05:56 AM   
Tactics


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Didn't they already hijack a bunch of Russian tanks?

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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 2:26:13 AM   
wdolson

 

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Once upon a time, merchant ships were armed to protect against pirates.  Most modern pirate vessels are small and very vulnerable.

By taking such a large ship, the pirates may have taken a bit enough prize to wake up the world to do something about the problem.

Bill


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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 2:32:15 AM   
Gem35


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Pirate ships fly the jolly roger, they sail around plundering unsuspecting ships and....
Argghhhh.....

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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 2:47:19 AM   
Nomad

 

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When I think of pirates I think of Keiras chest.

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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 2:55:16 AM   
Gem35


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Ahoy!!!

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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 5:14:14 AM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

When I think of pirates I think of Keiras chest.


Non-existent, you mean?

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Post #: 13
RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 6:44:21 AM   
goodwoodrw


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JWE, what part of the world do you come from. You just can't go out in the ocean, and shoot up a few defenceless under nourished starving deprived Somalian pirates. Just like you can't give your kids Golliwogs,or smack them for being naughty, tell Irish and polish jokes, call your dog nigger, opening a car door for some sheila, or picking your nose in public, Anmesty International would sanction you, blacklist you,place a permanent embargo on you or worst of all stop you from buying any decent war game for the next ten years so u could spend time with a distant Somalian tribe to understand their exotic culture.
Ron
PS if this post gets me banned well so be it I feel good about it.

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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 9:29:09 AM   
tocaff


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Some day the West will wake up & smell the coffee, but until that day comes pin ****s will be tolerated.  Once the hit is large enough something will be done, but not by the UN. 

The shortest war in history was over an English merchantman's skipper losing his ear to Madagascar pirates in the 1800s.  He appeared before Parliament and the MPs were outraged and decided that this couldn't & shouldn't be tolerated so they sent the RN.  The RN bombarded the island's fortress for about 1/2 an hour before securing a surrender.

A certain amount of resolve to protect what's yours with maybe a little help from your friends, who share the same concerns, will go a long way in this area and in Asia too.

I won't get into this subject any deeper for fear of violating the political or religious taboos here.


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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 10:13:53 AM   
Przemcio231


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Well send in the troops to the ports where the ships are held shoot any one there on sight... 2 or 3 such actions and no more pirates becouse the rest will be sceared to death that some one may come to his home port and kill all his family and friends. So the simplest and only certain solution is to level every port in Somalia.

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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 10:18:09 AM   
Tofke


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new weapon against pirates (the sonic canon)

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,385048,00.html

Tofke


< Message edited by Tofke -- 11/19/2008 10:24:34 AM >


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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 10:30:15 AM   
wild_Willie2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

Well send in the troops to the ports where the ships are held shoot any one there on sight... 2 or 3 such actions and no more pirates becouse the rest will be sceared to death that some one may come to his home port and kill all his family and friends. So the simplest and only certain solution is to level every port in Somalia.


Sure, why not nuke the entire continent....

I think that the only effective way to block those pirates would be to agressivly patrol their "hunting grounds" and to blockade their harbours.
Suspected vessels at the high sea would be "asked" to heave to for inspection, if they refuse to be inspected, I am sure a 75mm round would convince them real quick..

I do however support the punishment of on the spot hanging for the crew of these pirate vessels ...

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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 11:23:17 AM   
goodwoodrw


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

Well send in the troops to the ports where the ships are held shoot any one there on sight... 2 or 3 such actions and no more pirates becouse the rest will be sceared to death that some one may come to his home port and kill all his family and friends. So the simplest and only certain solution is to level every port in Somalia.


Sure, why not nuke the entire continent....

I think that the only effective way to block those pirates would be to agressivly patrol their "hunting grounds" and to blockade their harbours.
Suspected vessels at the high sea would be "asked" to heave to for inspection, if they refuse to be inspected, I am sure a 75mm round would convince them real quick..

I do however support the punishment of on the spot hanging for the crew of these pirate vessels ...


Aye matie angun from the yard arm,and make their families walk the plank, a little bit keel hauling would be fun.

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Post #: 19
RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 11:33:39 AM   
HansBolter


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What I can't figure out is how this rag tag bunch with machine guns and RPGs in speedboats are commandeering these huge ships.

It's not like the pirates have a powerful combatant ship that is forcing these ships to submit or be blown out of the water.

It's typically 30-40 feet, or more, from the waterline to the deck of one of those huge ships. Can't they simply pull up the boarding ladders? Are these guys scaling the sides of these ships with ropes and grappling hooks? All it would take is one armed man with a machine gun at the railing to take out an entire puny boatload of pirates.

Why the hell aren't the shipping companies who run through that area placing armed security teams aboard these ships to repel borders?

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Post #: 20
RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 11:53:23 AM   
Terminus


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Because arming the cargo vessels would cause the pirates to escalate their armament level as well, putting the lives of more cargo ship crews at risk and driving up insurance premiums even higher. Civilian ships carrying nuclear waste for reprocessing are armed, but ones carrying Wii consoles aren't.

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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 12:03:38 PM   
Dixie


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There is also the fact that the entire crew of the cargo vessels is rarely more than 30-40.  Which includes crew who have to stay below to work the engine rooms and the bridge crew there won't be that many crew to fight them off.  Maybe a dozen or so guys, bearing in mind the size of the ships (especially tankers) you can't cover the entire deck with people to fend them off.

Luckily my old man is not around that neck of the woods.

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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 12:20:06 PM   
EUBanana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tocaff

Some day the West will wake up & smell the coffee, but until that day comes pin ****s will be tolerated.  Once the hit is large enough something will be done, but not by the UN. 

The shortest war in history was over an English merchantman's skipper losing his ear to Madagascar pirates in the 1800s.  He appeared before Parliament and the MPs were outraged and decided that this couldn't & shouldn't be tolerated so they sent the RN.  The RN bombarded the island's fortress for about 1/2 an hour before securing a surrender.

A certain amount of resolve to protect what's yours with maybe a little help from your friends, who share the same concerns, will go a long way in this area and in Asia too.

I won't get into this subject any deeper for fear of violating the political or religious taboos here.



I think you're getting a bit mixed up here...

The War of Jenkins Ear was in the 18th century, started over a captain's ear being cut off by Spanish coastguards (he did indeed display it in Parliament to outraged MPs), lasted almost ten years and ended up in British defeat.

The shortest war in history on the other hand was fought by Britain against Zanzibar in the 19th century, involved deposing an uncooperative Sultan rather than anything to do with pirates, and lasted forty minutes.

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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 12:32:48 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Because arming the cargo vessels would cause the pirates to escalate their armament level as well, putting the lives of more cargo ship crews at risk and driving up insurance premiums even higher. Civilian ships carrying nuclear waste for reprocessing are armed, but ones carrying Wii consoles aren't.



Escalate with what? The captured Russian tanks? All these guys have is machine guns, RPGs and speedboats. It's not like they will suddenly start sortying in destroyers as a reaction to escalation on teh part of the shipping companies.

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Post #: 24
RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 12:37:17 PM   
Terminus


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Maybe we WILL see something like what you mention in the future... Hopefully not followed by the deaths of too many innocent people.

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RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 12:37:37 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

There is also the fact that the entire crew of the cargo vessels is rarely more than 30-40.  Which includes crew who have to stay below to work the engine rooms and the bridge crew there won't be that many crew to fight them off.  Maybe a dozen or so guys, bearing in mind the size of the ships (especially tankers) you can't cover the entire deck with people to fend them off.

Luckily my old man is not around that neck of the woods.



I could accept your argument IF the pirates were swarming the ship by the hundreds in too many locations simultaneously to be effectively repelled. I do not think this is the case, I may be wrong. If, on the other hand, it is a half dozen or less speedboats with 30-50 men attempting to board at 5-6 different locations, even a squad with a two man macchine gun team at each boarding point would pretty quickly make mincemeat out of the borders. Not to mention what an RPG used in defense of the ship would do to one of their speedboats.

I think it comes down to a simple matter of what Tocaff mentioned above: resolve or a serious lack thereof.

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Post #: 26
RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 12:39:12 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Maybe we WILL see something like what you mention in the future... Hopefully not followed by the deaths of too many innocent people.



Agreed. Hopefully a few demonstartions of real resolve to put a stop to it will convince the "pirates" that it is no longer an easy source of plunder.

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Post #: 27
RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 1:02:07 PM   
Cav Trooper


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From what the news reported, an Indian Destroyer left a "Mother ship" adrift on fire off the Somalian coast recently. From what the news reports, is that the Destroyer spotted the ship, with two speedboats in tow, ordered it to stand to, but the hapless pirates shot back at the India Destroyer with RPG's and gunfire. The Indian Destroyer engaged the "Mother Ship" left it burning then, caught one of the two speedboats later that was trying to escape. They left the "Mother Ship" just burning in the ocean..

AS far as I"m concerned, more actions like that need to be taken. Salute to the Indians for showing some resolve. However, it did point out that they only fired back when fired upon. And if you ask me, what kind of idiot, would fire on a heavily armed, modern day warship with an RPG?????



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Post #: 28
RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 1:05:04 PM   
Terminus


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The kind who are desperate not to be captured... I believe the Royal Navy was also involved in an incident with some pirates the other day.

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Post #: 29
RE: OT Pirate Question - 11/19/2008 2:12:50 PM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
I could accept your argument IF the pirates were swarming the ship by the hundreds in too many locations simultaneously to be effectively repelled. I do not think this is the case, I may be wrong. If, on the other hand, it is a half dozen or less speedboats with 30-50 men attempting to board at 5-6 different locations, even a squad with a two man macchine gun team at each boarding point would pretty quickly make mincemeat out of the borders. Not to mention what an RPG used in defense of the ship would do to one of their speedboats.

I think it comes down to a simple matter of what Tocaff mentioned above: resolve or a serious lack thereof.


The problem with arming the merchant ships is that there would more than likely be an escelation in the weaponary and violence used. It's not difficult to get hold of weapons from dodgy sources after all.

Giving the ships weapons could also cause far more issues in the long run, the pirates won't take kindly to being shot at and it could cause them to change their treatment of the crews. There's also the issue of what happens when a bunch of pirates take over one of the armed merchies and take the weapons for themselves...

EDIT: I think international law also forbids the arming of civilian ships.

< Message edited by Dixie -- 11/19/2008 2:26:12 PM >


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