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Construction speed... - 10/21/2008 8:52:09 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 23589
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
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Hi all,

Long long long time ago (WOW it was in 2004 - can you guys imagine that we are all still here? ) I posted:


09/12/2004

Comprehensive WitP ENG unit testing...


and


08/10/2004

Idea how to slow building speed down - let's limit ENG units stacking!


With latest and upcoming WitP-AE the stacking limits will finally be here - FANTASTIC - thanks to all hard working guys of WitP-AE team!!!


For combat we got our glimpse of what it will look like but not yet for construcion... would some kind WitP-AE sould be so kind to post info regarding WitP-AE construction speed?

Thanks in advance!


BTW, here is excerpt of my original post in 2004:

quote:


Tinian is SPS 1 (Port) - 4 (Airbase) and was set to 0 - 0.

I build it from there to 4 - 7 (i.e. MAX that it can reach).


I used 10 SeaBee battalions.

Since 1 SeaBee in WitP is 30 ENG squads + 30 ENG vehicles equaling 180 ENG squads equivalents altogether it means that 10 Battalions thus are 1800 ENG squads equivalents.


I build both Port and Airbase in parallel.


Port size:

0 turns = Port 0
2 turns = Port 1
5 turns = Port 2
14 turns = Port 3
25 turns = Port 4 (MAX reached - expansion stopped)


Airbase size:

0 turns = Airbase 0
2 turns = Airbase 1
3 turns = Airbase 2
6 turns = Airbase 3
8 turns = Airbase 4
15 turns = Airbase 5
30 turns = Airbase 6
39 turns = Airbase 7 (MAX reached - expansion stopped)


Very very fast... way to fast...



Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE
Post #: 1
RE: Construction speed... - 10/21/2008 12:08:40 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14724
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
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Have not specifically tested these kind of scenarios.

Broadly getting to lvl 3 forts and AF and Port construction is per stock

BUT

(i) on small atolls you cannot stack as many Seabees
(ii) Units need to be in combat mode to build - so occasional days in rest mode will be required so it will be slower

Forts 4 - 6 are still reasonable to build but a little slower than stock.

Forts 7 - 9 are now tough to build and require a large investment of resources - key bases will have them but not all

I think construction is better because you have more bases to build up, slower forts, less stacking of engineer units on fleaspecks.

BUT

Attacker has constraints as well.

One of the things I love now is that if I am say invading a small SOPAC atoll I cannot unload 20,000 men in a single turn including 2 Seabee Bns and an Aviation Regt and have the AF (that I pulversised with 16" shells the day before) open for ops that night.

Attacker needs to bring a more combat heavy mix to take places because of stacking limits so the insta capture/operational airbase is a thing of the past except on the biggest islands

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 2
RE: Construction speed... - 10/21/2008 12:30:28 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 23589
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Have not specifically tested these kind of scenarios.

Broadly getting to lvl 3 forts and AF and Port construction is per stock

BUT

(i) on small atolls you cannot stack as many Seabees
(ii) Units need to be in combat mode to build - so occasional days in rest mode will be required so it will be slower

Forts 4 - 6 are still reasonable to build but a little slower than stock.

Forts 7 - 9 are now tough to build and require a large investment of resources - key bases will have them but not all

I think construction is better because you have more bases to build up, slower forts, less stacking of engineer units on fleaspecks.

BUT

Attacker has constraints as well.

One of the things I love now is that if I am say invading a small SOPAC atoll I cannot unload 20,000 men in a single turn including 2 Seabee Bns and an Aviation Regt and have the AF (that I pulversised with 16" shells the day before) open for ops that night.

Attacker needs to bring a more combat heavy mix to take places because of stacking limits so the insta capture/operational airbase is a thing of the past except on the biggest islands


Thank you very much for quick and informative answer Andy!


If you (or someone else from WitP-AE team) finds some time to test please just quickly check the conctruction build-up of Tinian (I think that is rather small place and should have limitations and we know historic time for building up)!

IMHO the quickest way (this is how I did it in original WitP in 2004) is to simply create just small scenario in editor with Tinian and few other islands around. Then put troops and supply on it (I made all that in 5 minutes in WitP editor back in 2004) - turn resolutions are also fast because just have just tiny map and few trrops around...


Thanks in advance!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 3
RE: Construction speed... - 10/21/2008 12:53:30 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14724
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From: Alexandria, Scotland
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All the focus is on the AI for now after we get that if we get time we will re run tests

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 4
RE: Construction speed... - 10/21/2008 12:57:46 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 23589
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

All the focus is on the AI for now after we get that if we get time we will re run tests


Much obliged - thanks!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 5
RE: Construction speed... - 2/13/2009 2:30:04 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 23589
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

Shameless BUMP!


With increase of AARs and postings here it is obvious that Witp-AE has reached certain maturity!

Therefore I am humbly asking some good WitP-AE tester soul to check the data (please see my first post) regarding changes in construction speed from current WitP and new and upcoming WitP-AE!

Thanks in advance!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 6
RE: Construction speed... - 2/13/2009 6:18:17 PM   
pad152

 

Posts: 2871
Joined: 4/23/2000
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

All the focus is on the AI for now after we get that if we get time we will re run tests


One would hope, this info will be in the manual!

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 7
RE: Construction speed... - 2/13/2009 7:03:52 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14724
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
Sorry guys I am still churning the AI trying to get it to do all the things it needs to do to get there its getting better build by build

We are also still playing with some of the construction formulas so any test I run will be invalidated quite quickly

What I said above still stands building in general will be slower because fewer engineers can be concentrated on a single base.

(in reply to pad152)
Post #: 8
RE: Construction speed... - 2/13/2009 7:11:05 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 23589
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Sorry guys I am still churning the AI trying to get it to do all the things it needs to do to get there its getting better build by build

We are also still playing with some of the construction formulas so any test I run will be invalidated quite quickly

What I said above still stands building in general will be slower because fewer engineers can be concentrated on a single base.


Thanks for info Andy!

When you are done with AI (fingers crossed!) and when the construction formulas are fixated please do test and post some results...


Thanks in advance!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 9
RE: Construction speed... - 4/3/2009 9:14:38 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 23589
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

Shameless BUMP!

Almost 2 months have passed and we hear more and more good things that WitP-AE is close to being done ... thus I humbly ask if this has been, possibly, checked...


Thanks in advance!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 10
RE: Construction speed... - 5/17/2009 12:25:04 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 23589
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

Shameless BUMP!

Almost 4 months have passed and we hear more and more good things that WitP-AE is close to being done ... thus I humbly ask if this has been, possibly, checked...


Thanks in advance!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 11
RE: Construction speed... - 5/17/2009 12:37:24 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
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Well, not sure about the speeds, but a limit of 250 engineers working at a base was put in long before I joined the team going on 2 years ago. Read that to mean 250 engineering points, meaning 250 engineers or 50 engineer vehicles or whatever combination.

< Message edited by Yamato hugger -- 5/17/2009 12:38:42 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 12
RE: Construction speed... - 5/17/2009 12:59:22 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14724
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
We have not to my knowledge went out and ran unit test like this frankly because even now if we did something small could change that would invalidate the test so its a pointless exercise

It is better to run the game, test the game and if an outlier result jumps out test it to find the cause of that outlier.

That is the type of testing we are performing.

Andy


(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 13
RE: Construction speed... - 5/17/2009 3:58:20 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 23589
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

We have not to my knowledge went out and ran unit test like this frankly because even now if we did something small could change that would invalidate the test so its a pointless exercise

It is better to run the game, test the game and if an outlier result jumps out test it to find the cause of that outlier.

That is the type of testing we are performing.

Andy




OK - thanks for info Andy!


Leo "Apolo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 14
RE: Construction speed... - 5/17/2009 4:15:18 PM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10449
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline
As an example fortification level-1 through level-3 happen a bit faster (digging fox holes, clearing fields of fire, bore sighting weapons, setting up a few hasty obstacles, things like this do not take so long) the level-4 through level-6 probably take a bit longer on average - especially for larger bases - the level-7 through level-9 will take a lot longer.

It is still possible to build level-9s ... but not as many as quickly ... and on smaller islands we have a cap of level-6 ...



_____________________________

AE Project Lead
New Game Project Lead

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 15
RE: Construction speed... - 5/17/2009 4:36:00 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 23589
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

As an example fortification level-1 through level-3 happen a bit faster (digging fox holes, clearing fields of fire, bore sighting weapons, setting up a few hasty obstacles, things like this do not take so long) the level-4 through level-6 probably take a bit longer on average - especially for larger bases - the level-7 through level-9 will take a lot longer.

It is still possible to build level-9s ... but not as many as quickly ... and on smaller islands we have a cap of level-6 ...


Thanks for info Joe!

If not sooner by you guys I will test this when WitP-AE becomes available... the Tinian base buildup would be good test (i.e. we know how long it took historically to build it to MAX for B-29's)...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 16
RE: Construction speed... - 5/18/2009 3:31:34 PM   
Czert

 

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Will only enegeniers count for these "grunts jobs" (building of forts - up to certain level - as writen diging trenches, fox holes...etc) or it will count normal soldiers too (at reduced efficiency)? After all, building of trenches is normal soldier life in WWII.  And for expanding of ports/airfiled - I thing normal soldiers can help up to lever 1 or 2.

_____________________________


(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 17
RE: Construction speed... - 5/18/2009 6:47:32 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14724
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
Yes only engineers but its one reason why forts 1 - 3 are so easy to build

(in reply to Czert)
Post #: 18
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