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Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/12/2008 3:30:51 PM   
RevRick


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Hijacked by swarming wannabe PT boat jockies, that is, I have a small humble request. Since I don't have the time to wander through threads trying to find a table which can be named anything, and hence, in all likelihood, will not respond to a search reliably, could someone in the inner sanctum of knowledge post all of the charts concerning things like ship missions, air esoterica, ground grapplings, etc., which has been promulgated to date, and then lock the blooming thing so that those of us who are having premature withdrawal of information symptoms can spend another hour or two drooling on our keyboards in anticipation of the long awaited arrival without having to wade through interminable posts bewailing that which is supposedly wrong with the thinking of those who have composed these tables or the presumptions upon which they were based, ad nauseum.

< Message edited by RevRick -- 10/12/2008 3:32:20 PM >


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RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/12/2008 4:29:11 PM   
JWE

 

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Don’t want much, do ya Reverend ?

I think that’s a good idea. Can’t speak for the other teams, but in terms of naval missions, there is a table (there’s lots of tables) that will be in the manual. Right now, it’s still going thru a teensy bit of tweaking.

I’ll see what I can do about having it posted. However, it’s rather large. Currently, there are 25 missions, and 83 ship types, so it’s a 25 column by 83 row table. Woof !

BTW, some of the missions have the same name, as of old, but work differently; ‘Escort’ mission, for example, is for moving the CripDivs to sanctuary. There will prolly have to be an errata posted with the table so’s it’s contents make more sense (damp out the wailing and gnashing of teeth). Ciao.


< Message edited by JWE -- 10/12/2008 4:32:08 PM >

(in reply to RevRick)
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RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/12/2008 4:30:47 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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There isnt any "new" missions.

Edit: As JWE said, there are new restrictions to what can be done with them (ASW groups for example have 4 ship maximums as do minesweep missions). But as far as the missions themselves go, there arent any "new" ones.

< Message edited by Yamato hugger -- 10/12/2008 4:32:43 PM >

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RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/12/2008 4:34:44 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
There isnt any "new" missions.

Yammy's right; sorry, age induced brain fart. There are 25 TF types. So the table is what kinds of ship types can play in what kinds of TFs.

So just substitute 'TF' for where I said 'mission'. Ciao.

< Message edited by JWE -- 10/12/2008 4:53:51 PM >

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RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/12/2008 5:16:16 PM   
Don Bowen


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Actually I think you're both right. There are 25 TF types and each TF type has a mission.

The new TF types/missions are:
Amphibious - a variation of Transport for amphibious landings (which makes regular transport pier-to-pier)
Landing Craft - a variation of Barge for amphibious landings (barge TFs are better at landing supplies at friendly bases)
Midget Submarine - specifically for midget subs
Support - Repair ships, tenders, oilers and ammo ships (plus escort) - oriented toward creating forward bases.
Local Minesweeping - a variation of minesweeping for a single hex. The AI is very fond of this TF type.
Midget Sub Carrier - a special mission for one suitably capable I-boat and one midget sub.

And, as mentioned, there are some minor changes to existing TF types. Escort (sometimes called Cripple) now has the ability to move ships that are offline for repairs (emulating towing).

The differences between amphibious and regular transport missions will fill a book - and many forum threads I am sure. Basically, a TF type specifies the mission that a TF is tasked to perform and the ships in the TF specify how well it can perform that mission. Putting one regular freighter into an "amphibious" TF does not gain any amphibious ability for the freighter. But adding in a couple of APA does - and the landing craft of the APA can help the poor old freighter unload over the beach.




(in reply to JWE)
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RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/12/2008 5:54:19 PM   
RevRick


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quote:

And, as mentioned, there are some minor changes to existing TF types. Escort (sometimes called Cripple) now has the ability to move ships that are offline for repairs (emulating towing).


So, I'll break my own rule and ask a question. Does this mission mean that there will be a better use for all of those fleet tugs which where called 'PCs' in the previous versions? Do they have to be combined with the victim in the TF? If so, that sounds like a great dose of reality in the game. HOORAHH!! (though that may be a tad premature!)

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RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/12/2008 6:06:59 PM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

quote:

And, as mentioned, there are some minor changes to existing TF types. Escort (sometimes called Cripple) now has the ability to move ships that are offline for repairs (emulating towing).


So, I'll break my own rule and ask a question. Does this mission mean that there will be a better use for all of those fleet tugs which where called 'PCs' in the previous versions? Do they have to be combined with the victim in the TF? If so, that sounds like a great dose of reality in the game. HOORAHH!! (though that may be a tad premature!)


Nope, save those Hurrahs. We did not include tugs in AE. Looked at it, and could quickly see the hinges on Pandora's box moving. What size tug can tow what ship? What ships other than tugs can tow - and what ships? What size this, what size that, what speed, what fuel consumption, what chances for towing accidents?? Not hooray, but argggggg.

Towing is still abstracted.


(in reply to RevRick)
Post #: 7
RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/12/2008 6:17:33 PM   
khyberbill


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Good. I didnt want to worry about towing. That is something I dont want to micro-manage.

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RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/12/2008 6:56:33 PM   
pad152

 

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Amphibious Mission - I sure hope you can stop the AI from throwing away all of it's AP's!


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RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/12/2008 7:09:32 PM   
pad152

 

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Is everyone working on the same project?

quote:

Yamato hugger - There isnt any "new" missions.
JWE - Yammy's right.
Don Bowen - The new TF types/missions are:


or is it just on a need to know basis?

I feel real sorry for whoever got stuck trying to write the manual!





< Message edited by pad152 -- 10/12/2008 7:24:43 PM >

(in reply to pad152)
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RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/12/2008 7:41:27 PM   
cantona2


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If i can also break the Rev's rules, if AMC's are inculded will they have the ability to have SC missions unlike in CHS where the allied AMC's (one off that i know off) cannot be part of a SCTF or in RHS where they are classed as CL,s?

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RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/12/2008 7:59:56 PM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

Is everyone working on the same project?

quote:

Yamato hugger - There isnt any "new" missions.
JWE - Yammy's right.
Don Bowen - The new TF types/missions are:


or is it just on a need to know basis?

I feel real sorry for whoever got stuck trying to write the manual!







Purely semantics - as I mentioned in the part of the post that you did not quote.



(in reply to pad152)
Post #: 12
RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/12/2008 8:01:45 PM   
Dili

 

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Any kind of ship with a troop quantity and or cargo set in editor will be able to transport? In witp i ended giving APD class to many PG/PC because they weren't able to any transport with that class.

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RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/12/2008 8:02:17 PM   
jwilkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2

If i can also break the Rev's rules, if AMC's are inculded will they have the ability to have SC missions unlike in CHS where the allied AMC's (one off that i know off) cannot be part of a SCTF or in RHS where they are classed as CL,s?


I just had one of my AMC (Allied) spotted by Japanese air - and at least in the spotting report - it was reported as a CL. I haven't experimented with the various TF types for this class.



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RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/12/2008 8:09:01 PM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

Any kind of ship with a troop quantity and or cargo set in editor will be able to transport? In witp i ended giving APD class to many PG/PC because they weren't able to any transport with that class.


The game will obey the settings from the editor WITHIN THE MISSION OF THE TASK FORCE.

If you give a PG a troop and/or cargo capacity and put it in a transport TF, the assumption is that it is an escort and does not carry anything. Put it in a fast transport TF and it will carry troops/cargo.

In stock WITP, certain ship types (like DD) had a fixed cargo capacity. Just be a DD and you get 250 cargo, without regard to size, etc. In AE this capacity has been extended - warships can still carry stuff only when in Fast Transport TFs but their capacity is set in the editor. Big DD - big capacity, small DD - small capacity, tiny ship (like a PT or MGB), no capacity. However, in this and lots of other things, the game follows the scenario designer's specifications. If the designer wants PTs that convert into Yamato class BBs and DDs that carry a thousand troops in fast transport TFs, so be it.





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RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/12/2008 8:43:33 PM   
Dili

 

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quote:

If you give a PG a troop and/or cargo capacity and put it in a transport TF, the assumption is that it is an escort and does not carry anything. Put it in a fast transport TF and it will carry troops/cargo.


Thanks. Good solution.

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RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/12/2008 10:20:29 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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One thing I really like is the FoW. In 1 test I ran it was reported to the Japs that the Maryland had sunk. Even showed up on the sunk ships report as Maryland. On the allied side, it was the Oklahoma!

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RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/13/2008 5:26:31 AM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152
Is everyone working on the same project?

quote:

Yamato hugger - There isnt any "new" missions.
JWE - Yammy's right.
Don Bowen - The new TF types/missions are:

or is it just on a need to know basis?
I feel real sorry for whoever got stuck trying to write the manual!

"scuse the heck out of me.. won't be doing any more posting so I won't be worrying your little head.

(in reply to pad152)
Post #: 18
RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/13/2008 1:47:10 PM   
RevRick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


Actually I think you're both right. There are 25 TF types and each TF type has a mission.

The new TF types/missions are:
Amphibious - a variation of Transport for amphibious landings (which makes regular transport pier-to-pier)

which makes distinguishing between AP/APA and AK/AKA all the more important. Does that also portend a more active use of the LCI/LCVP independent forces, referenced next?

quote:

Landing Craft - a variation of Barge for amphibious landings (barge TFs are better at landing supplies at friendly bases)
Midget Submarine - specifically for midget subs
Support - Repair ships, tenders, oilers and ammo ships (plus escort) - oriented toward creating forward bases.


Hooray, the fleet train appears. Would the repair vessels function as they do in port if they are anchored somewhere, as in an atoll, like Bikini or Ulithi?

quote:

Local Minesweeping - a variation of minesweeping for a single hex. The AI is very fond of this TF type.


Been doing this in current games by setting sweeper on "Patrol do not retire" and making the destination hex the current port. I think that works. They do expend fuel. But, this sounds like it will be a lot easier.

quote:

Midget Sub Carrier - a special mission for one suitably capable I-boat and one midget sub.


BOO!! HISS!!

quote:

And, as mentioned, there are some minor changes to existing TF types. Escort (sometimes called Cripple) now has the ability to move ships that are offline for repairs (emulating towing).

The differences between amphibious and regular transport missions will fill a book - and many forum threads I am sure. Basically, a TF type specifies the mission that a TF is tasked to perform and the ships in the TF specify how well it can perform that mission. Putting one regular freighter into an "amphibious" TF does not gain any amphibious ability for the freighter. But adding in a couple of APA does - and the landing craft of the APA can help the poor old freighter unload over the beach.


Mercy!! That sounds good so far. Can't bloomin' wait, but I guess I'll have to - specially since the Local Unit Finance Department/Female already thinks I am nuts with the football season underway.

< Message edited by RevRick -- 10/13/2008 1:50:19 PM >


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RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/13/2008 2:21:22 PM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Actually I think you're both right. There are 25 TF types and each TF type has a mission.

The new TF types/missions are:
Amphibious - a variation of Transport for amphibious landings (which makes regular transport pier-to-pier)

which makes distinguishing between AP/APA and AK/AKA all the more important. Does that also portend a more active use of the LCI/LCVP independent forces, referenced next?




Don't understand this question....


quote:


quote:

Landing Craft - a variation of Barge for amphibious landings (barge TFs are better at landing supplies at friendly bases)
Midget Submarine - specifically for midget subs
Support - Repair ships, tenders, oilers and ammo ships (plus escort) - oriented toward creating forward bases.


Hooray, the fleet train appears. Would the repair vessels function as they do in port if they are anchored somewhere, as in an atoll, like Bikini or Ulithi?


They must be at a "port" - level 0 or greater. So yes, Ulithi is fine.


quote:


quote:

Local Minesweeping - a variation of minesweeping for a single hex. The AI is very fond of this TF type.


Been doing this in current games by setting sweeper on "Patrol do not retire" and making the destination hex the current port. I think that works. They do expend fuel. But, this sounds like it will be a lot easier.

quote:

Midget Sub Carrier - a special mission for one suitably capable I-boat and one midget sub.


BOO!! HISS!!



You mispelled "Thanks, this is a great feature".



quote:

And, as mentioned, there are some minor changes to existing TF types. Escort (sometimes called Cripple) now has the ability to move ships that are offline for repairs (emulating towing).

quote:



The differences between amphibious and regular transport missions will fill a book - and many forum threads I am sure. Basically, a TF type specifies the mission that a TF is tasked to perform and the ships in the TF specify how well it can perform that mission. Putting one regular freighter into an "amphibious" TF does not gain any amphibious ability for the freighter. But adding in a couple of APA does - and the landing craft of the APA can help the poor old freighter unload over the beach.


Mercy!! That sounds good so far. Can't bloomin' wait, but I guess I'll have to - specially since the Local Unit Finance Department/Female already thinks I am nuts with the football season underway.



We all wish it was ready now...



(in reply to RevRick)
Post #: 20
RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/13/2008 4:42:36 PM   
RevRick


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From: Thomasville, GA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Actually I think you're both right. There are 25 TF types and each TF type has a mission.

The new TF types/missions are:
Amphibious - a variation of Transport for amphibious landings (which makes regular transport pier-to-pier)

which makes distinguishing between AP/APA and AK/AKA all the more important. Does that also portend a more active use of the LCI/LCVP independent forces, referenced next?




Don't understand this question....




In WitP, present edition, there are independent LCI and LCVP created out of supply at bases. If they are still included in the AE version, and, further, if one were to include them in an Amphibious TF to accompany the Gator Freighters and the other non amphibious type supply ships, would that have any positive impact on the ability for non Amphib types to unload over the beach.

I know this is getting picky, but with the hints of all this new stuff coming up, these questions just keep popping up my my pesky little head, and somehow matriculate themselves the the keyboard.


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Post #: 21
RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/13/2008 5:11:57 PM   
NormS3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

One thing I really like is the FoW. In 1 test I ran it was reported to the Japs that the Maryland had sunk. Even showed up on the sunk ships report as Maryland. On the allied side, it was the Oklahoma!



fantastic! Any idea how long it will show up on the other sides list?

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Post #: 22
RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/13/2008 8:13:39 PM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Norm3


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

One thing I really like is the FoW. In 1 test I ran it was reported to the Japs that the Maryland had sunk. Even showed up on the sunk ships report as Maryland. On the allied side, it was the Oklahoma!



fantastic! Any idea how long it will show up on the other sides list?


Random, based on size of ship. Bigger ships sooner, little ships long time, little tiny ships, maybe never.



(in reply to NormS3)
Post #: 23
RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/13/2008 11:22:38 PM   
erstad

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


You mispelled "Thanks, this is a great feature".



I shouldn't really bite the hand that feeds my addiction, but I can't resist...

You misspelled "misspelled"



< Message edited by erstad -- 10/13/2008 11:23:55 PM >

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 24
RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/13/2008 11:32:31 PM   
Don Bowen


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From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


You mispelled "Thanks, this is a great feature".



I shouldn't really bite the hand that feeds my addiction, but I can't resist...

You misspelled "misspelled"




Actually misttyttype, as I can ideeedeed spell missspelllled.


(in reply to erstad)
Post #: 25
RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/13/2008 11:40:42 PM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Actually I think you're both right. There are 25 TF types and each TF type has a mission.

The new TF types/missions are:
Amphibious - a variation of Transport for amphibious landings (which makes regular transport pier-to-pier)

which makes distinguishing between AP/APA and AK/AKA all the more important. Does that also portend a more active use of the LCI/LCVP independent forces, referenced next?




Don't understand this question....




In WitP, present edition, there are independent LCI and LCVP created out of supply at bases. If they are still included in the AE version, and, further, if one were to include them in an Amphibious TF to accompany the Gator Freighters and the other non amphibious type supply ships, would that have any positive impact on the ability for non Amphib types to unload over the beach.

I know this is getting picky, but with the hints of all this new stuff coming up, these questions just keep popping up my my pesky little head, and somehow matriculate themselves the the keyboard.




You are not the first devious devil to think of this one.

The answer is no. First, small landing craft can not be put into Amphibious TFs. In this regard, small is LCM, LCT, LB, LCVP. Larger landing ships and craft (LST, LCI, and LCI/LSM(G/M/R)) can go into Amphib TFs but are not considered to assist in unload of other ships.

We considered various methods of controlling unload, including even the use of amtracs, but decided on a simple emulation based on ship type - for simplicity and a desire to finish coding this millennia.






< Message edited by Don Bowen -- 10/13/2008 11:41:52 PM >

(in reply to RevRick)
Post #: 26
RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/14/2008 12:23:26 PM   
undercovergeek

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

One thing I really like is the FoW. In 1 test I ran it was reported to the Japs that the Maryland had sunk. Even showed up on the sunk ships report as Maryland. On the allied side, it was the Oklahoma!


"yup, that'll be the sync bug" - Yamato Hugger



(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 27
RE: Since the Mission Thread was Hijacked - 10/14/2008 1:39:42 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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No, actually thats working as designed as Don said.

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Post #: 28
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