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RE: Mission types for Ships

 
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RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/9/2008 10:03:08 PM   
Dili

 

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Guess everything will be in 99s failure rate that way starting with conventional aerial bombing missions...

Let's see 3 cruisers hit one of them sunk. Plus least 2 escort ships hit one sunk if i am not mistaken. 2 PT sunk. It certainly can be argued that more intensive operation might bring more casualities while i can argue that without airplanes there would be more chances for other successfull missions.



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Post #: 31
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/10/2008 12:00:03 AM   
spence

 

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quote:

Try using statistical analysis; it's very simple mathematics. #of sorties, # of contacts per sortie, # of weapons fired, # hits per weapon fired, etc, ad nauseum. You will find you have to add some .9's to the 99% figure.,


I think that if you get carried away with your statistical analysis and then apply said criteria to each of the various classes of warships you can prove that all the ships of all the Navies of WW2 were quite useless.




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Post #: 32
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/10/2008 3:58:30 AM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: spence
quote:

Try using statistical analysis; it's very simple mathematics. #of sorties, # of contacts per sortie, # of weapons fired, # hits per weapon fired, etc, ad nauseum. You will find you have to add some .9's to the 99% figure.,


I think that if you get carried away with your statistical analysis and then apply said criteria to each of the various classes of warships you can prove that all the ships of all the Navies of WW2 were quite useless.

You betcha. That's the whole point. Arguing over specific historical outcomes is even worse than statistics.

Ciao.

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Post #: 33
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/10/2008 5:24:25 PM   
Nikademus


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3 kinds of lies......lies, d*amned lies and statistics

One can pretty much argue a set of stats anyway they want and call it factual. This board has certainly seen more than it's share of that.....

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Post #: 34
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/12/2008 12:40:52 AM   
John Lansford

 

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I suppose it is too late to request something like this, but will the Bombardment missions be divided into two groups: Raid and Bombard?  The Raid mission would be like what Bombard is right now; ships sneak in, bombard the port and do some damage, and then hightail it out of there to avoid air strikes.

Bombard would be the preinvasion naval gunfire support and prep that the USN conducted prior to nearly all amphibious landings, resulting in higher disruption to LCU's, knocking out shore defenses, but being more susceptible to aerial and submarine attacks and losing initiative against any enemy surface warfare TF's in the same hex.

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Post #: 35
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/12/2008 1:04:05 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

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Well, if you want to look at it really, bombard with escorts would be the pre-bombardment thing, while escorts off would be the hit and run varity.

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Post #: 36
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/12/2008 1:32:30 AM   
Don Bowen


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In AE you can put heavy bombardment ships into an Amphibious TF and they will bombard each turn.



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Post #: 37
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/12/2008 1:50:30 AM   
wworld7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
In AE you can put heavy bombardment ships into an Amphibious TF and they will bombard each turn.


YES!!!

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Flipper

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Post #: 38
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/12/2008 2:22:01 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
In AE you can put heavy bombardment ships into an Amphibious TF and they will bombard each turn.


YES!!!


Dont you just hate when people stuff their feelings and show no emotion so you can never tell if they like something?

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Post #: 39
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/12/2008 5:01:37 AM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger


quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
In AE you can put heavy bombardment ships into an Amphibious TF and they will bombard each turn.


YES!!!


Dont you just hate when people stuff their feelings and show no emotion so you can never tell if they like something?


Well, before we get too carried away...

Heavy ships (cruiser and battle types) in an amphibious TF will bombard on the first turn (before any troops have landed) and MAY bombard on subsequent turns. It depends on the strength of the enemy ashore. They can also respond with counter battery fire.

Also, during the landings, smaller support ships will move in close and provide gunfire support.



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Post #: 40
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/12/2008 6:12:16 AM   
wworld7


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This sounds all good to me.

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Post #: 41
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/13/2008 4:30:24 AM   
mutterfudder

 

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Hey now wait a min, I seem to recall two BW John Wayne films where PT boats took on the JN and won!



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Post #: 42
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/13/2008 5:23:19 PM   
mdiehl

 

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quote:

One can pretty much argue a set of stats anyway


Stats are only open to abuse when ignorant people use them improperly, or when other ignorant people ignore them when they're properly used.

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Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

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Post #: 43
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/13/2008 6:00:17 PM   
Terminus


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You would know.

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Post #: 44
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/13/2008 6:21:38 PM   
mdiehl

 

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Indeed I would, being both well qualified at their proper use and at recognizing when they've been used improperly.

I find that most of the people who claim "stats can be used to prove anything" are simply underequipped to deal with a statistical argument, and try to level the playing field so to speak by trying to cast doubt on their proper use. It's a bit like a golf handicap I suppose, or perhaps like changing the rules in the Olympics so that Special Olympics competitors can feel like they're really in the same league as the top athletes.

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 45
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/14/2008 2:38:29 PM   
John Lansford

 

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So in AE we'll just stuff the amphibious TF with big and little warships and they'll do their thing vs the shore defenses on their own?  In addition to protecting the transports from enemy ships and adding AA firepower when the planes come over?  There won't be any toggles we'll have to remember to switch on or off like there is for just about everything else?

Cool!

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Post #: 46
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/14/2008 3:02:51 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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Might want to do some prep-work on the shore guns before you load up this amphib TF and sail in there and get the stuffing shot out of you first. I guaranty that someone will do just that and be on the forumns crying at how they got the crap kicked out of them and how unrealistic it is.

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Post #: 47
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/14/2008 4:10:04 PM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Might want to do some prep-work on the shore guns before you load up this amphib TF and sail in there and get the stuffing shot out of you first. I guaranty that someone will do just that and be on the forumns crying at how they got the crap kicked out of them and how unrealistic it is.


Exactly. The intent is to allow ships in an amphibious TF to provide support during the invasion. If you are going after a base with strong defenses, you should send in one or more heavy bombardment TFs and probably some extensive air bombardment before your amphib forces come over the horizon.

The heavy ships in an amphib TF will perform ONE round of bombardment before troop unloading starts. If the enemy CD guns are strong, you are going to be unloading troops while under gunfire. The heavy ships can continue to fire during troop unload, and smaller ships can move in close with the troops for gunfire support, but it is much better to suppress those damn CD guns before fragile transport hulls come within their range.



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Post #: 48
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/14/2008 4:33:55 PM   
RevRick


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Hmmm. Sounds suspiciously like what happened in the real thing. How 'bout that?

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Post #: 49
RE: Mission types for Ships - 10/14/2008 8:23:24 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

Hmmm. Sounds suspiciously like what happened in the real thing. How 'bout that?


"Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it."

We asked for it, Rev!

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Post #: 50
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