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**Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update**

 
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**Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/4/2008 2:29:41 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
I’ve noted a drastic slowing of discussion, and realize a lot of it is due to our preoccupation with working on this monster. I’ll let you all in on a little secret. We have our own developers forum for AE and it is a busy place. Much testing and reporting is being logged, and issues are being found and fixed. Here is the latest from the Air Team.

The biggest news I have to report is a crowd favorite. We had a bit of a database issue with A/C ranges. We found that using data from stock caused key issues with certain A/C so Thomas and I personally reviewed all A/C in the Database, and double and triple checked figures, made concessions where conflicts in sources arose, always eyeing the TYPICAL capabilities of an Airframe rather than making the excetion the rule.

I concluded that we needed to implement Drop Tanks. I drew up a rough draft design doc, and we created a build to complement the data. So we now have Drop Tanks. So far so good, but this change has occurred late and is one of many loose threads across all areas that has induced delay.

But…we have them. Here’s a little sample. All A/C that carried them can equip. Some gained them after the war started so we gave the option to date-delay them. The UI is basic, simply click “use Drop Tanks” and you unit will display the drop tank ranges in the Data page. There are now 4 range rings the normal range rings, same colors as stock, and the Normal DT and Extended DT ranges in Pink and Grey.

Extended range has been redfined. It is more of a gamble to operate at Extended range particularly when damaged, and the intent is for it to not be a sustainable prospect. What we gained…A6M2-21 & A6M3-22 can reach Lunga from Rabaul, P-47s can reach Wewak from PM, B-29s can reach Tokyo (at ext. Range) from Saipan, P-51Ds can reach Tokyo with drop tanks, and Oscars can fly offensive missions of most of Malaya from Indochina.

Currently testing centers around the old Grudge matches. I am running a “dirty” scenario based on Coral Sea to test historical likenesses between the Lae Wing and the RAAF and 8th PG. The old P-40/P-39 vs. Zeke duel.

Others are looking at the Offensive missions in "Clean" scenarios or Sandbox testing up the slot with Corsairs, P-40s, P-38s and Hellcats against a mix of INAF and IJAAF units. We are looking at the effects of radar, Pilot EXP, LDR ratings, HQs, and Altitude under the new code.

Heavy bombers are being tested vs. Strong Radar supported CAP to see how they behave. A few snags, but we are working on them.

Results have been promising. I can assure you the days of the Zero killer (under certain circumstance), are by no means a certainty. If you can field a strong IJ Air component there tends to be a greater variety of results, again dependent on the Tactical situation and the state of your units. The F4U is still a handful above 20k’ even between equal EXP opponents. Altitude is making a difference and the Bent wing bird can still carve Zekes out of the sky, just not in the volumes you saw in Stock.

My next order of business is looking at the new Attack Bombers in action. This is a little tested feature that bears significant attention.

We’ve also reviewed Pilot replacements. You’ll find a more significant supply on both sides. This was based on almost 2 years of research on and off, between myself, Thomas, and several Air Team members. Both sides will have more depth, but you still need to manage your forces. Staying on the offensive and pressuring the IJ player is a key to victory. You’ll have to look to force his hand a create the war of attrition somewhere if he avoids it in the Solomons. Likewise it’s going to be tough for the IJ player to whittle down the Allies supply of well trained and organized pilots!

The other area we are putting a lot of energy into is Raid coordination. Initial testing showed that too many Raids were going unescorted. Part of this was due to a misunderstanding of how this feature works. Essentially you set air units to the Same altitude in order to TELL the code you want them to Coordinate. Then a variety of factors are checked to see how well a raid is put together. The code is good to go, and we are getting our first look at the latest tweaks. More testing is required.

That’s it for now. Feel free to fire off questions, but try to avoid turning this thread into a debate forum. Thanks.

~Elf


< Message edited by TheElf -- 9/7/2008 12:49:23 AM >


_____________________________

IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES


Post #: 1
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/4/2008 2:36:35 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 6874
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
Elf;

Awesome job! Sounds like it will be well worth the wait!

on DROP TANKS, is there a penalty or consequence for using them? If not, why wouldn't you use them every time?

Can you comment a bit further on how the IJN/IJA Pilot replacements are modelled?

Also, I understand that you will no longer be able to on-map train fighters by bombing an airbase for example (they won't learn to dogfight anyway), but will the "Training" feature still be active for on-map training?

_____________________________


(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 2
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/4/2008 2:37:15 PM   
dazoline II


Posts: 398
Joined: 11/5/2007
Status: offline
Awesome, thanks Elf.
I hope your avatar gets her wish soon!

Any conclusions on how the AI will handle the drop tanks?

_____________________________

Moscow by winter? Only if you send Fast Heinz to Kiev.

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 3
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/4/2008 2:40:55 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Elf;

Awesome job! Sounds like it will be well worth the wait!

on DROP TANKS, is there a penalty or consequence for using them? If not, why wouldn't you use them every time?

Can you comment a bit further on how the IJN/IJA Pilot replacements are modelled?

Also, I understand that you will no longer be able to on-map train fighters by bombing an airbase for example (they won't learn to dogfight anyway), but will the "Training" feature still be active for on-map training?

Yes the penalty is that operations conducted with DTs fitted consumes supply at TWICE the normal rate. It ain't cheap, even if you don't actually FLY at DT ranges.

Not sure what you mean by replacement modelling, can you specify?

Training will be possible on map, but only in specific skill sets. Overall EXP does not change as quickly from training.

_____________________________

IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES



(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 4
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/4/2008 3:20:56 PM   
Fishbed

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline
Awesome Elf! Many great thanks!

_____________________________


(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 5
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/4/2008 3:58:06 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
1. Do you model sorties?
2. Do you model how CAS is most effective close to the perimeter of the air base?
3. Do you model the use of forward strips for refuelling/refitting?
4. Do you make weather affect both sides?
5. Do you model strip alert?

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 6
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/4/2008 4:54:43 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41451
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

1. Do you model sorties?
2. Do you model how CAS is most effective close to the perimeter of the air base?
3. Do you model the use of forward strips for refuelling/refitting?
4. Do you make weather affect both sides?
5. Do you model strip alert?


1): Not sure what you mean.
2): See 1.
3): No. One airfield per hex, as always.
4): See 1.
5): To a point. There's such a thing as CAP being reinforced.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 7
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/4/2008 5:10:50 PM   
undercovergeek

 

Posts: 1526
Joined: 11/21/2006
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

1. Do you model sorties?
2. Do you model how CAS is most effective close to the perimeter of the air base?
3. Do you model the use of forward strips for refuelling/refitting?
4. Do you make weather affect both sides?
5. Do you model strip alert?


1): Not sure what you mean.
2): See 1.
3): No. One airfield per hex, as always.
4): See 1.
5): To a point. There's such a thing as CAP being reinforced.


i think number 4 refers to being bombed under a cloud but not launching an attack whilst youre under it

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 8
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/4/2008 5:11:21 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

1. Do you model sorties?
2. Do you model how CAS is most effective close to the perimeter of the air base?
3. Do you model the use of forward strips for refuelling/refitting?
4. Do you make weather affect both sides?
5. Do you model strip alert?


1): Not sure what you mean.
2): See 1.
3): No. One airfield per hex, as always.
4): See 1.
5): To a point. There's such a thing as CAP being reinforced.


1. The Air Tasking Order is written in terms of sorties. Wings, squadrons, etc., are sortie-generators. I think that was the case in WWII, too.

2. CAS is most effective at the shortest mission radius, as long as the aircraft are not under fire at their base. That's one reason the USMC adopted the Harrier--it could land just behind the MLR and be available for immediate CAS.

3. Many missions were staged through a forward strip. See 2 for why.

4. Currently, one side can be socked in, while the other experiences OK weather in the same hex. If the side with OK weather is the attacker, the result is an unopposed airstrike on a base or CVTF supposedly defended by CAP (and AA artillery).

5. OK.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 9
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/4/2008 5:24:17 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 23557
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

I’ve noted a drastic slowing of discussion, and realize a lot of it is due to our preoccupation with working on this monster. I’ll let you all in on a little secret. We have our own developers forum for AE and it is a busy place. Much testing and reporting is being logged, and issues are being found and fixed. Here is the latest from the Air Team.

The biggest news I have to report is a crowd favorite. We had a bit of a database issue with A/C ranges. We found that using data from stock caused key issues with certain A/C so Thomas and I personally reviewed all A/C in the Database, and double and triple checked figures, made concessions where conflicts in sources arose, always eyeing the TYPICAL capabilities of an Airframe rather than making the excetion the rule.

I concluded that we needed to implement Drop Tanks. I drew up a rough draft design doc, and we created a build to complement the data. So we now have Drop Tanks. So far so good, but this change has occurred late and is one of many loose threads across all areas that has induced delay.

But…we have them. Here’s a little sample. All A/C that carried them can equip. Some gained them after the war started so we gave the option to date-delay them. The UI is basic, simply click “use Drop Tanks” and you unit will display the drop tank ranges in the Data page. There are now 4 range rings the normal range rings, same colors as stock, and the Normal DT and Extended DT ranges in Pink and Grey.

Extended range has been redfined. It is more of a gamble to operate at Extended range particularly when damaged, and the intent is for it to not be a sustainable prospect. What we gained…A6M2-21 & A6M3-32 can reach Lunga from Rabaul, P-47s can reach Wewak from PM, B-29s can reach Tokyo (at ext. Range) from Saipan, P-51Ds can reach Tokyo with drop tanks, and Oscars can fly offensive missions of most of Malaya from Indochina.

Currently testing centers around the old Grudge matches. I am running a “dirty” scenario based on Coral Sea to test historical likenesses between the Lae Wing and the RAAF and 8th PG. The old P-40/P-39 vs. Zeke duel.

Others are looking at the Offensive missions in "Clean" scenarios or Sandbox testing up the slot with Corsairs, P-40s, P-38s and Hellcats against a mix of INAF and IJAAF units. We are looking at the effects of radar, Pilot EXP, LDR ratings, HQs, and Altitude under the new code.

Heavy bombers are being tested vs. Strong Radar supported CAP to see how they behave. A few snags, but we are working on them.

Results have been promising. I can assure you the days of the Zero killer (under certain circumstance), are by no means a certainty. If you can field a strong IJ Air component there tends to be a greater variety of results, again dependent on the Tactical situation and the state of your units. The F4U is still a handful above 20k’ even between equal EXP opponents. Altitude is making a difference and the Bent wing bird can still carve Zekes out of the sky, just not in the volumes you saw in Stock.

My next order of business is looking at the new Attack Bombers in action. This is a little tested feature that bears significant attention.

We’ve also reviewed Pilot replacements. You’ll find a more significant supply on both sides. This was based on almost 2 years of research on and off, between myself, Thomas, and several Air Team members. Both sides will have more depth, but you still need to manage your forces. Staying on the offensive and pressuring the IJ player is a key to victory. You’ll have to look to force his hand a create the war of attrition somewhere if he avoids it in the Solomons. Likewise it’s going to be tough for the IJ player to whittle down the Allies supply of well trained and organized pilots!

The other area we are putting a lot of energy into is Raid coordination. Initial testing showed that too many Raids were going unescorted. Part of this was due to a misunderstanding of how this feature works. Essentially you set air units to the Same altitude in order to TELL the code you want them to Coordinate. Then a variety of factors are checked to see how well a raid is put together. The code is good to go, and we are getting our first look at the latest tweaks. More testing is required.

That’s it for now. Feel free to fire off questions, but try to avoid turning this thread into a debate forum. Thanks.

~Elf



Very very nice - many many thanks (for AE effort and this info)!

One quick question - can you please show us how the new 5-band maneuverability data for aircraft will be shown for player in side game WitP-AE?


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 10
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/4/2008 5:31:06 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41451
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

1. Do you model sorties?
2. Do you model how CAS is most effective close to the perimeter of the air base?
3. Do you model the use of forward strips for refuelling/refitting?
4. Do you make weather affect both sides?
5. Do you model strip alert?


1): Not sure what you mean.
2): See 1.
3): No. One airfield per hex, as always.
4): See 1.
5): To a point. There's such a thing as CAP being reinforced.


1. The Air Tasking Order is written in terms of sorties. Wings, squadrons, etc., are sortie-generators. I think that was the case in WWII, too.

2. CAS is most effective at the shortest mission radius, as long as the aircraft are not under fire at their base. That's one reason the USMC adopted the Harrier--it could land just behind the MLR and be available for immediate CAS.

3. Many missions were staged through a forward strip. See 2 for why.

4. Currently, one side can be socked in, while the other experiences OK weather in the same hex. If the side with OK weather is the attacker, the result is an unopposed airstrike on a base or CVTF supposedly defended by CAP (and AA artillery).

5. OK.


Weather can most certainly affect both sides in AE, causing split-up raids, bombers getting lost, fighter escort getting lost... You name it.

As for CAS, what you're suggesting, in WWII terms, is the cab-rank system, which we're not modelling. Remember that there's no hour-by-hour run-down of the turn.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 11
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/4/2008 5:43:43 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41451
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Very very nice - many many thanks (for AE effort and this info)!

One quick question - can you please show us how the new 5-band maneuverability data for aircraft will be shown for player in side game WitP-AE?


Leo "Apollo11"


Looks like this. As you can see, it's a modifier to combat rolls:




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 12
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/4/2008 6:54:22 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
With all the hoopla and fanfare, I had no doubt the ranges would be corrected..(Now, the Martin B 26 will quit stumbling over its' own feet.)..Thank you..

_____________________________




(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 13
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/4/2008 7:59:57 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 7678
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline
Would be nice to have different weapon loads, like "Use Rockets" etc. Or have different weapon loads for different missions. Like PBY Catalina, Night Naval Atack -> use torpedo, ASW patrol -> use depth charges etc.


_____________________________

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(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 14
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/4/2008 8:29:14 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41451
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
Some things had to fall by the wayside, and that last one was one of them. The closest we have is a toggle for torpedo-carrying aircraft to switch between carrying torpedoes or bombs.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 15
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/4/2008 10:38:00 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 6874
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
Side art on that Nate looks good!

_____________________________


(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 16
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/4/2008 11:38:33 PM   
Javakamp


Posts: 172
Joined: 2/17/2004
From: Lakeland, FL.
Status: offline
Awesome stuff Elf. Thanks for the update.

Are there maneuver penalties for Drop Tanks, or are they assumed to drop them if engaged in combat? 

What does the "Refresh a/c" button do?

< Message edited by Javakamp -- 9/4/2008 11:39:34 PM >

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 17
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/5/2008 2:09:34 AM   
mbatch729


Posts: 531
Joined: 5/23/2001
From: North Carolina
Status: offline
Excellent news! This is sounding better and better. Hope we can get it by early '09. Sounds like I'll be playing it for many, many years.

_____________________________

Later,
FC3(SW) Batch
USS Iowa

(in reply to Javakamp)
Post #: 18
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/5/2008 3:50:01 AM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3996
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus
Weather can most certainly affect both sides in AE, causing split-up raids, bombers getting lost, fighter escort getting lost... You name it.


Is this in any way reported to the players so they know what happened during a turn? Or is it as before, only occuuring behind the scenes in the code with no way for players to know about or appreciate what happened?

Jim


_____________________________


(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 19
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/5/2008 7:44:57 AM   
pad152

 

Posts: 2871
Joined: 4/23/2000
Status: offline
The load out changes for some aircraft (fighter bombers) with the use of drop tanks, less bombs (only so many hard points), so how is this handled?


Max Range? Does max range for aircraft transfers to/from bases now require drop tanks, thus requiring more supply?



< Message edited by pad152 -- 9/5/2008 7:51:01 AM >

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 20
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/5/2008 8:37:58 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 23557
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Very very nice - many many thanks (for AE effort and this info)!

One quick question - can you please show us how the new 5-band maneuverability data for aircraft will be shown for player in side game WitP-AE?


Looks like this. As you can see, it's a modifier to combat rolls:





Thanks "T"!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 21
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/5/2008 8:45:21 AM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

1. Do you model sorties?
2. Do you model how CAS is most effective close to the perimeter of the air base?
3. Do you model the use of forward strips for refuelling/refitting?
4. Do you make weather affect both sides?
5. Do you model strip alert?


1): Not sure what you mean.
2): See 1.
3): No. One airfield per hex, as always.
4): See 1.
5): To a point. There's such a thing as CAP being reinforced.


1. The Air Tasking Order is written in terms of sorties. Wings, squadrons, etc., are sortie-generators. I think that was the case in WWII, too.

2. CAS is most effective at the shortest mission radius, as long as the aircraft are not under fire at their base. That's one reason the USMC adopted the Harrier--it could land just behind the MLR and be available for immediate CAS.

3. Many missions were staged through a forward strip. See 2 for why.

4. Currently, one side can be socked in, while the other experiences OK weather in the same hex. If the side with OK weather is the attacker, the result is an unopposed airstrike on a base or CVTF supposedly defended by CAP (and AA artillery).

5. OK.


Weather can most certainly affect both sides in AE, causing split-up raids, bombers getting lost, fighter escort getting lost... You name it.

As for CAS, what you're suggesting, in WWII terms, is the cab-rank system, which we're not modelling. Remember that there's no hour-by-hour run-down of the turn.


The problem with weather as it is now modelled is that--and everyone has had this happen--it can be so bad for the CAP that nothing flies and yet be so perfect for the attackers that everything on the ground is smashed.

I'm not suggesting a cab rank system, but I am suggesting that the distance from the airfield to the battlefield be factored into the effectiveness of the CAS. In particular, air units based in a hex under attack should be particularly effective, rather than suppressed as they now are.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 22
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/5/2008 9:17:59 AM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Would be nice to have different weapon loads, like "Use Rockets" etc. Or have different weapon loads for different missions. Like PBY Catalina, Night Naval Atack -> use torpedo, ASW patrol -> use depth charges etc.


This is an Air Team Priority for Patch 1...

_____________________________

IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES



(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 23
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/5/2008 9:20:33 AM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Javakamp

Awesome stuff Elf. Thanks for the update.

Are there maneuver penalties for Drop Tanks, or are they assumed to drop them if engaged in combat? 

What does the "Refresh a/c" button do?

No MVR penalty, they are assumed to be dropped.

_____________________________

IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES



(in reply to Javakamp)
Post #: 24
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/5/2008 10:02:55 AM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

1. Do you model sorties?
2. Do you model how CAS is most effective close to the perimeter of the air base?
3. Do you model the use of forward strips for refuelling/refitting?
4. Do you make weather affect both sides?
5. Do you model strip alert?


1): Not sure what you mean.
2): See 1.
3): No. One airfield per hex, as always.
4): See 1.
5): To a point. There's such a thing as CAP being reinforced.


1. The Air Tasking Order is written in terms of sorties. Wings, squadrons, etc., are sortie-generators. I think that was the case in WWII, too.

2. CAS is most effective at the shortest mission radius, as long as the aircraft are not under fire at their base. That's one reason the USMC adopted the Harrier--it could land just behind the MLR and be available for immediate CAS.

3. Many missions were staged through a forward strip. See 2 for why.

4. Currently, one side can be socked in, while the other experiences OK weather in the same hex. If the side with OK weather is the attacker, the result is an unopposed airstrike on a base or CVTF supposedly defended by CAP (and AA artillery).

5. OK.

1. Having written an ATO, I can say with some certainty that the architechure of this game does not lend itself to replicating one.

2. There has been discussion of tying distance flown to the number of sorties generated. But we decided this would/could swing the balance of gameplay in a direction we don't want to go. This is an operational game that toys with tactical aspects.

3. Again the structure of the game does not lend itself to shuttle missions and staging. It could be done, but the problem would be how do you make it the exception rather than the rule?

4. Weather is SAIEW. We are looking at it in the next patch. If you have specific issues send me a detailed summary and I can look into solutions. I'd be particularly interested in what you submit is unequal treatment.

5. Actually T is mostly right. Strip alert is modelled in the sense that a portion of CAP is Airborne and the rest are on "Strip Alert" That is rearming/refuelling or getting ready to relieve the airborne CAP. Further. Other A/C not assigned a mission, can be drawn into the CAP however at a much greater delay owing to not being "ready" or "strip Alert". this is of course driven by early warning, else they won't be up in time.

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IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES



(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 25
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/5/2008 10:17:00 AM   
herwin

 

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Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
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Amen, bro. (I was system engineer for a system that wrote ATOs.) Looks like my concerns are being addressed as far as they can be.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 26
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/5/2008 12:31:39 PM   
cantona2


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Thank to T and The Elf and all the others involved. If loose threads that are causing delays are being seeing to then you guys carry on. Better dealy the release till you guys are happy. I'm sure the community as a whole would appreciate the end product and extra effort. Yet again thanks.

< Message edited by cantona2 -- 9/5/2008 12:38:11 PM >


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(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 27
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/5/2008 12:34:23 PM   
Terminus


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Joined: 4/23/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus
Weather can most certainly affect both sides in AE, causing split-up raids, bombers getting lost, fighter escort getting lost... You name it.


Is this in any way reported to the players so they know what happened during a turn? Or is it as before, only occuuring behind the scenes in the code with no way for players to know about or appreciate what happened?

Jim



It's shown in text during turn resolution, i.e. you might get a message telling you that an escorting fighter squadron can't find the bombers it's meant to escort and has turned back.

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(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 28
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/5/2008 1:21:43 PM   
Terminus


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As an addendum to the CAS discussion above, the whole point of Close Air Support in the game is kinda moot, isn't it? I submit that there is no CAS in the literal sense in WitP or AE, since that would have to take place in the land combat phase. What we have is more correctly Battlefield Air Interdiction, or BAI.

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We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 29
RE: **Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update** - 9/5/2008 5:23:08 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4623
Joined: 9/10/2004
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quote:

I concluded that we needed to implement Drop Tanks. I drew up a rough draft design doc, and we created a build to complement the data. So we now have Drop Tanks. So far so good, but this change has occurred late and is one of many loose threads across all areas that has induced delay.


How game will handle a mix of drop tanks and bombs? Let's say i have a fighter bomber with 3x250kg bomb and that i can replace 2 of them with drop tanks will the game allow the remaining one when i choose ground attack and will delete the bomb increasing the range when i choose transfer or any of air combat modes? Also can we make all those bomb bay tanks in bombers as drop tanks to have extended ferry range in bombers? or will it means that they will still take the bombs too? and when half a bomb bay can be a tank and the other half bombs? Issue here is how many bombs a bomb bay tank represents we would need to tell the game in plane editor an alternative let the game assume by tank weight.


Separate issue. Aircraft radar(anti ship and air to air will it work?) I ask because i think there were some issues in Witp that i dont know if they were adressed in patches.

< Message edited by Dili -- 9/5/2008 5:30:01 PM >

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 30
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