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Possible AI issue. - 8/21/2008 8:59:00 PM   
ulver

 

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I’m playing my first game, trying out the UK. Having a lot of fun I must say – I’m very impressed with many of the game concepts.

However, as the Axis attack Greece I intervene and fortify the narrow ismus to shield Athens, Which is fine – except the AI mass a massive army across my lines and just stand there. Surely this can’t be right?





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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/21/2008 9:17:12 PM   
ulver

 

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While The Germans are fighting the decisive battle in Russia: This is getting silly.




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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/22/2008 12:11:15 AM   
Lucky1

 

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This is the result of minor powers moving and attacking independently. Frankly, it appears to me (despite other areas of promise) that this game is deeply flawed as a result  -- especially for one that was originally designed for play against AI.

I really think it necessary to allow combined attacks with allies. To suggest that no operational coordination occurred is flawed. Furthermore, it just makes for bad gaming.

In a similar vein, the AI should consider other allied units when making its decisions. That way, you don't have every country piling up at the same area when it is obvious that sufficient force exists....

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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/22/2008 12:48:11 AM   
jjarred

 

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So, does this mean that the AI will continue to build in this area until the end of the game...or will the AI eventually make an attack at one point or another? It does appear laughable to see this superior force just sitting there!!!

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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/22/2008 2:09:10 AM   
Toby42


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Every time I get ready to buy, something like this pops up and I change my mind!!!!

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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/22/2008 6:37:36 AM   
jjarred

 

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I came back to see if ulver had posted another attachment of his game. I was curious to see if the AI was still building up, or if maybe it made an attack yet. If you have another chance ulver, please give an update....thanx

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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/22/2008 9:32:00 AM   
JMass


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This is the same problem I reported around Odessa. I am modding Europe 1940 to give also a more historical flavour to the game, regarding Greece Italian AI declares war too soon (1 september 1940 instead of 28 october as historically) and it is helped by Axis minor that tried to attack Thessaloniki, this can cause the traffic jam so I am testing a situation where the Axis Minor AI is forbidden to attack Greek cities.

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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/22/2008 9:52:05 AM   
ulver

 

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I’ll finish the game tonight and post some screenshots. At this point I confidently expect the Soviets to overrun Europe while I tie down the axis forces with my brilliant “stand and look at them” strategy.

I’m sure the issue will eventually be resolved. Apart from this issue I’m quite impressed with the game so far.

< Message edited by ulver -- 8/22/2008 9:56:58 AM >

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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/22/2008 10:52:18 AM   
doomtrader


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Some AI tweaks already has been done for next patch, and we are working over best solution for that.


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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/22/2008 2:35:40 PM   
winky51

 

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I feel that once a minor country goes your way, you should have total control over it.

The Romanians didnt do as they please in WW2, they were told what to do by Germany.  For the most part.

While Italy did its own foolish adventures... I still hold firn on that this is not a historical game, its a wargame.  Hindsight comes into play.  I think someone put it best when combining the 2 "put an option in that falters from history".

In reality one of us could go back in time and take over Germany in 1939, Im fairly certain we could do a better job... god forbid.

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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/22/2008 3:12:02 PM   
cpdeyoung


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I, on the other hand, am always surprised at how often I make the same mistakes the Axis did. The urge to make the best armor, at the expense of the most armor, comes to mind. Given a chance to enter Barbarossa with Tigers; I always am tempted. I am drawn to the side campaigns, North Africa, for example. The more I think about it the more I am willing to allow the decision makers on the spot the credit due them.

This is what I like about games on this level. You get a chance to try.

Chuck

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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/22/2008 5:17:57 PM   
winky51

 

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We are human but we do have WW2 hindsight.  But we are human and still make mistakes.  Most are new ones.  I have played WIF since 3rd edition and have played many a game.  I see lots of strategic mistakes by players, but they shouldnt be forces in a strict set of historical rules to repeat the past.  Let em make it on their own.

BTW if you allow countried to work together then you dont need that city surrender adjustment.   Actually for a surrounded city I was going to recommend simply dropping their supply level.

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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/22/2008 8:42:47 PM   
ulver

 

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Most of Germany have been occupied by the Soviets. Let’s just call this a bug shall we?




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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/22/2008 9:12:20 PM   
ulver

 

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Looks like Europe will shortly belong to the Soviets.




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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/22/2008 11:08:12 PM   
jjarred

 

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Thanx for the updates ulver...is appreciated!!!

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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/22/2008 11:36:46 PM   
James Ward

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: winky51

I feel that once a minor country goes your way, you should have total control over it.


You can take control at any time. Just press F1 during your turn and change the country control to human.

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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/22/2008 11:40:12 PM   
James Ward

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucky1

This is the result of minor powers moving and attacking independently.


The ability of minors to attack with the major isn't the cause of this. It's the combat results table. A human could probably break the line if they committed enough air power to weaken a single unit at a time but it would take a long time.

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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/23/2008 4:17:55 AM   
Jim D Burns


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I think the best solution for the problems with different countries going on different turns, thus negating any chance of allied cooperation in combats, is to simply allow countries to lend forces to each other.

For minor countries, it should be automatic. If their units enter a major powers territory, they become units of that major country automatically. They’d still retain all their national characteristics and tech of course, but they’d move and be controlled by that major power until it opted to return the unit.

Then add in force pool limits (prevents over-building) and don’t allow minors to have more than half their on-map army outside their home borders at any one time, and it would go a long way to making allied cooperation a nice part of the game instead of the headache it is today.

For major powers, lending forces should be optional instead of automatic, but there should be a way for an ally to select an allied unit in his controlled territory and ask for its control if he doesn’t already have it. But only if he controls the territory, if his ally controls the territory instead of him, then he should be lending his units to the ally, not vice versa.

Jim


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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/23/2008 5:52:39 AM   
Twotribes


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Sorry, did I miss something? In WW2 the germans did not suborn their troops in Rumania to them. In fact they attached the smaller nations forces to their Corps and Army.

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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/23/2008 10:58:24 AM   
Lucky1

 

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The fact that minor power units are in the way prevents the higher concentration of firepower. Furthermore, it does not allow one to do a group attack, move the group attacking units out of the way and then move in individual units for direct assault. This is a real hindrance.... And of course, it appears all the various country units do not seem to recognize that sufficient allied firepower is in place and therefore they all rush in to like a school of sardines. If I were to identify the single most important issue of the game to be resolved, it is the AI and small power interaction....

p.s. I do not wish to give the impression that this game should be eschewed. Rather, my comments are intended to allow the developers (who appear to be genuinely supporting the game) to consider options that might allow WW2RTV to live up to its potential. I think the game has a lot of promise....

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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/23/2008 12:43:23 PM   
Jim D Burns


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes
Sorry, did I miss something? In WW2 the germans did not suborn their troops in Rumania to them. In fact they attached the smaller nations forces to their Corps and Army.



Right, but for game play purposes if you prefer not to control every minor power personally, but want to create a Rumanian 3rd Army, the best way to do that would to be to simply lend those German units to the Rumanians for use during their turn.

That way the in-combat cooperation effect still exists without the need to micro-manage every one of your allied minor powers personally. So the Rumanian 3rd Army can then do its thing during Rumania’s turn even though historically it was attached to Army Group South.

And the fact it’s under AI control helps to somewhat mitigate the fact the human player has such a huge advantage over the AI.

Jim


< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 8/23/2008 12:51:50 PM >


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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/24/2008 5:47:04 PM   
doomtrader


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Already know how it should be solved so we will check is the best solution possible to implement.

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RE: Possible AI issue. - 8/24/2008 8:52:47 PM   
Twotribes


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Another AI problem. I am playing allies, Germany over ran France but refuses to attack Paris. They have captured almost every city and most of the Maginot line with a large force near Paris. They refuse to attack and refused to surround Paris when they could have now because of inaction there are 3 new units on 3 sides of Paris as well , it is late 40 and of Course France has not fallen.

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