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Bomber Group Sizes For Target Destruction

 
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Bomber Group Sizes For Target Destruction - 7/26/2008 4:25:04 PM   
Dobey455

 

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Hi Guys, While waiting for the new game I am happily plugging away on the BTR original that I recently got. (its my first time through, Im upto mid Nov 1943.) I was hoping some old vets coiuld give me advice on how many groups are needed to destoy (ie inflict roughly 50% damage or more) on the various target types.

To explain what I mean.......I have done a few deep penetration mission to "high Value" targets. I hit the Rubber plant that has a capacity of 60, and with about 7 or 8 groups caused approximately 80 - 90% damage. I have also targeted an Aluminium Fac of Capacity 18 and an Engine Fac of Capacity 10 with similar size forces (roughly 250 - 300 bombers). The rubber plant was annihalated but the other two targets only had about 30 - 45% damage.

Weather and other factors didn't seem to play a major part (ie the same for all targets) and my bombers took few losses prior to bombing so I guess that some targets are more "dense" or "concerntrated" and therefore easier to knock out. Is this true?

If so, (or even if not), how many bombers should I be aiming to send to the larger targets to ensure destruction?

Because I am in Novermber and the weather is crap I am flying whatever is available when the weather is good rather than waiting an extra day or two to get more bomber groups ready, only to find the weather has closed in for another week.

Thanks in advance for any advice
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RE: Bomber Group Sizes For Target Destruction - 7/26/2008 6:25:02 PM   
wernerpruckner


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quote:

Im upto mid Nov 1943.) I was hoping some old vets coiuld give me advice on how many groups are needed to destoy (ie inflict roughly 50% damage or more) on the various target types.


you need a good recce and a rested and high exp lead unit.
Usually I tend to use 4 BGs for small industrial targets up to 4points, for bigger industrial targets I sometimes use up to 8 BGs.

quote:

The rubber plant was annihalated but the other two targets only had about 30 - 45% damage.

are you sure of that, you need also a good post raid recce ( only if you know the game very well with how much score you´ll may get from a target you may ignore some post raid recce )

quote:

Weather and other factors didn't seem to play a major part (ie the same for all targets) and my bombers took few losses prior to bombing so I guess that some targets are more "dense" or "concerntrated" and therefore easier to knock out. Is this true?

different targets have different sizes, smallest are POWER sites.
weather does have a major impact on bombing, therefor I only bomb targets inside a city if I expect some heavy clouds over the target => you may miss your target, but most bombs will hit the city.
It is quite early in the game and you do not yet have enough units for a major offensive. I´d suggest to keep long range raids by the 8th and 15th at a minimum, just to keep a nice score.

quote:

Because I am in Novermber and the weather is crap I am flying whatever is available when the weather is good rather than waiting an extra day or two to get more bomber groups ready, only to find the weather has closed in for another week.

except for maximum effort times, I let most bomber units rest for one to three days between raids. if the pilots are too tired and low on morale they tend to retreat very fast without coming close to the target, such bomber boxes are magnets for enemy interceptors.


For your bombing campaign you may consider a strategy and stick to it, because jumping between the target types does not stop the German production. You need to bomb a industry below a certain number and that it has a major impact on production.
So you can concentrate on ALUM => as soon as you hit it hard enough the Axis wont build many fighters or stick with rubber ( probably a easier way ) or power ( a hard way, but you may shut down everything).......or you concentrate on the fuel sector, or the A/C industry.....

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RE: Bomber Group Sizes For Target Destruction - 7/26/2008 9:48:29 PM   
Hard Sarge


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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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Weather and damage to the the groups has a effect, as does luck

a pathfinder sec can do major damage to a target and then the rest of the raid can miss !, or only one group out of the whole raid will hit the target well

Alt also effects the damage, but then Flak damage will be higher the lower you are

use the 2nd target as the same will make the raid try to bomb though clouds if it the target is covered (which may then miss)

I used to do a target of the month idea, when for each month, i would pick what I wanted to try and damage

if you go after aircraft production, try to work on one type, and make a bottle neck, or try to be fancy, and hit ME Frame factories and FW Engine factories

but in the short run, the LW itself is the main target, you break the LW, you can bomb to your hearts content, but that can be very HARD to do




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RE: Bomber Group Sizes For Target Destruction - 7/27/2008 12:49:19 AM   
K.Pooley


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

a pathfinder sec can do major damage to a target and then the rest of the raid can miss !, or only one group out of the whole raid will hit the target well



That's interesting Sarge, how are you able to tell if that happens in the game (or are you talking about the real world)?

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RE: Bomber Group Sizes For Target Destruction - 7/27/2008 2:24:35 AM   
Hard Sarge


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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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pause the game after each unit bombs and check the SD score (if you know what it was before the raid started, you can work out if you if unit did good or not)




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RE: Bomber Group Sizes For Target Destruction - 7/27/2008 9:46:22 AM   
Dobey455

 

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Thanks for the advice and quick replys eveyone.

What level do I need to damage industry to to cripple it? ATM I have damaged rubber over 50% and I was assuming that it was therefore crippled and moved onto something else.

Also what good does damaging Armaments factories do? Does it simply reduce the rate of AA gun and Armour production or will it actually move the ground war faster? I have looked at production from the axis side of the game and several armament factories seem to produce nothing (ie no guns, armour or artillery). Does this represent supplies or something similar? And is the need to equip the eastern front factored into the game?

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RE: Bomber Group Sizes For Target Destruction - 7/27/2008 11:07:46 AM   
wernerpruckner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dobey

What level do I need to damage industry to to cripple it? ATM I have damaged rubber over 50% and I was assuming that it was therefore crippled and moved onto something else.



The Allied player does not see the critical damage level, only the Axis side sees it.
The rubber starts with around 1000 points and the critical level is 500.
for the Germans it is shown as 995(500).

if you damage the industry below the 500 points, lots of production linked to rubber will be stopped,
but be aware that the German industry will adapt to the situation and than the critical level goes down until it will be no longer critical.
to keep an industry down you have to inflict serious damage for all the time => you have to fight the repair rates and the downsizing of the critical level.

Therefore I suggest not to use this as a strategy too early in the game, you just do not have the forces in 43 to keep an industry pinned down.
But on the other hand, you can stop the enemy´s production of certain goods for a few days/weeks.....that may help you in the long term.....

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RE: Bomber Group Sizes For Target Destruction - 7/27/2008 11:10:56 AM   
wernerpruckner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dobey

Also what good does damaging Armaments factories do? Does it simply reduce the rate of AA gun and Armour production or will it actually move the ground war faster? I have looked at production from the axis side of the game and several armament factories seem to produce nothing (ie no guns, armour or artillery). Does this represent supplies or something similar? And is the need to equip the eastern front factored into the game?


The ground war is fixed to certain dates, but you can advance it.

Bombing ARM can stop the production and therefore the replacement of AFV and ART for the frontlines.
You may not see all the goods that are produced


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RE: Bomber Group Sizes For Target Destruction - 7/27/2008 12:46:14 PM   
Hard Sarge


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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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on Crits
remember also, that once below the crit level, you get more points for damage done to it, but it gets HARDer to damage a damaged plant

the trick is, to damage a couple of them, and then try to keep all of them under the Crit levels (and as Swift says, they change)

now Chem and Rubber sort of work togeather, and hurting one can hurt the other, but hurting both, will hurt other areas

ARMs do make things, but, over all, I would look at it as targets for points, score, more then for trying to shut down a area of production (I mean, I would like to put in all of the Rifle and MG makers, the trucks and other goodies and have them damaged, would hurt this or that, but that is too much programming right now)

overall, ARM makes AFV and Arty and AA, but not all of them do, some are just empty plants as far as the player would see them, you hurt something, the AI will, make changes and start building something someplace else if it has to, so thinking you can go in and cripple every AFV factory and the AI will no longer have tanks, will not work

plus, keep your recon up to date, the game will lie to you, and in the new one, good old Harley, has even added a chance for the recon birds to get bad info back to you, so not only can't you trust the AI , you can't trust your pilots

also, some of the importent target types will be come smaller targets once you start attacking them (clubber that nice size 15 AFAC and it will shut down and become a number of smaller plants)




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RE: Bomber Group Sizes For Target Destruction - 7/27/2008 1:19:18 PM   
wernerpruckner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

on Crits
remember also, that once below the crit level, you get more points for damage done to it, but it gets HARDer to damage a damaged plant

the trick is, to damage a couple of them, and then try to keep all of them under the Crit levels (and as Swift says, they change)




and they change fast...the critical level goes down 10 points per day !!!!

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