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Jackson - 7/4/2008 6:50:56 AM   
sirduke_slith

 

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I have recently played a game as the confederacy and was doing quite well up to jan. of 1864. Jackson was killed in a previous battle and the next battle i was attacked i suffered a grand defeat. Now probably this defeat is unrelated from his death but it peaked my curiosity. I know he wasn't the all perfect general so many make him out to be, but i would like to hear people's opinion to what kind of differences would have resulted from his survival of the battle of Chancellorsville (in real life i mean)? Would Lee have invaded the north again? Would he have been successful,would the south win the war? Obviously no clear answer, just looking for feedback, thanks!
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RE: Jackson - 7/4/2008 7:48:38 AM   
Ingtar

 

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Jackson had Lee's ear.  At Gettysberg, Jackson and Longstreet could have convinced Lee to return to a battle of maneuver.  A different approach on Little Round Top or a flanking move on day three could have turned the entire war.  This is not to mention the effect Jackson would have had the day after he was wounded historically.

(in reply to sirduke_slith)
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RE: Jackson - 7/4/2008 10:33:14 AM   
Conny D

 

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quote:

I believe like the Catholic priest of New Orleans when he said in his prayer at the unveiling of the Jackson monument: "0 Lord, thou hadst to remove Stonewall Jackson, that the war might end."

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RE: Jackson - 7/4/2008 5:50:27 PM   
Jonah


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I'm writing a book on this issue
actually. But if Jackson was not shot, He would've went out with the rest of his plan by sending A.P. Hill's 12,000 men to the United States ford, if so he would've had Hooker trapped with his back to the river. With the High ground at Hazel grove and the ford It would've been only a matter of time 'till Hooker Surrendered. At Gettysburg he would've made a difference but not as much. Lee considered Longstreet his superior Commander, and if he didn't listen to him, Why would he listen to Ol' Jack?  

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RE: Jackson - 7/4/2008 7:40:51 PM   
Ingtar

 

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He considered Longstreet to be Jackson's superior.  However, at Chancellorsville, he lost one of his best field general (Jackson) due to a flanking move.  He was not about to risk his other good one in the next major campaign in another flanking move.  Without the loss of Jackson, he wouild have tried a bold maneuver (in all likelihood) rather than a direct assault.  He was called "Granny Lee" at first because he was overprotective of his assets.  Jackson helped to change some of that.  I do not fall completely into the cult of Jackson, but he had rare enough tactical skills and an even more rare ability to inspire love in his men.  Jackson and Longstreet working together were an incredible pair.  In all honesty, I've thought that those two were the real skill numbers that usually are assigned to Lee. 

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RE: Jackson - 7/4/2008 8:10:42 PM   
morganbj


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I think Jonah has the first part about right.  But if that had happened, there would have been no Gettysburg as we know it.  Lee might have invaded the north, but I would argue that with Jackson still in the field, the ANV would not have been reorganized.  This means that Jackson would not have reacted in any way like Hill and Ewell did during the invasion, so it's only sheer speculation what would have happened.  The ANV might well have been in even a better position to defeat the Army of the Potomac in detail, or, the AP might have been able to catch Jackson too far away from any support and defeated him.  Not likely, I guess, but who knows?

No matter what, it is certain that Jackson was missed.  His tactical and motivational skills were without equal.  Whatever course the war took, his presence would have been bad for the boys in blue.

I've not seen the quote that Connie D posted before, but that may very well be a good way to look at it.  His biggest influence may have been political, if the ANV had kept winning battles.  Lincoln might have been defeated in '64, and the new government might have just tossed in the towel and opted for a political settlement.  But, again, who knows?


(in reply to Ingtar)
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RE: Jackson - 7/4/2008 8:13:53 PM   
Jonah


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Definitely Ingtar. Jackson was practical, Lee was the ideals and Longstreet was the 'brains'. The Army of Northern Virginia was the greatest single millitary formation in the history of the world. Its officers corps was outstanding. While both Lee and Longstreet were better than Jackson, He comes in third place so to  speak, with Nathan B. forrest coming in fourth. As far as being aggresive at Gettysburg, the battle of Gettysburg was lost because of Lee's one plan that was never changing, his love of ground (Even if it wasn't important) and his two new corps commanders. If I were Lee, I would've given the II and III corps to D.H.Hill and J.B. Hood. Not Ewell and A.P.Hill

(in reply to Ingtar)
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RE: Jackson - 7/6/2008 5:35:23 AM   
morganbj


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jonah

Definitely Ingtar. Jackson was practical, Lee was the ideals and Longstreet was the 'brains'. The Army of Northern Virginia was the greatest single millitary formation in the history of the world. Its officers corps was outstanding. While both Lee and Longstreet were better than Jackson, He comes in third place so to  speak, with Nathan B. forrest coming in fourth. As far as being aggresive at Gettysburg, the battle of Gettysburg was lost because of Lee's one plan that was never changing, his love of ground (Even if it wasn't important) and his two new corps commanders. If I were Lee, I would've given the II and III corps to D.H.Hill and J.B. Hood. Not Ewell and A.P.Hill


I agree.

But, my only problem with Hood is that sometimes he was a tad too aggressive. But, had he been corps commander instead of Hill at Gettysbirg., the North might have had a very, very bad day. (Ah, what a thought.....)

But, here again, who really knows for sure?

One thing I definitely know, anybody who fought in that war is welcome to my canteen. Anytime. I salute them all. Yellow bellied, stinkin' Yank invader, or honorable, patriotic, God-fearing, Southern Gentleman defending the Southern rights from the degenerate Yankee shopkeeping pigs.

(Just kidding guys. I'm red-white-and-blue to the core. Next time, though ....)

We Southern boys always talk about the South fondly, but, I'm sure none of us support that abhorrent instutition that had a part in starting that conflict. I'm ashamed that my ancentors thought slavery was acceptable, in any form. (Hear that Yanks? Ever heard of indentured servants?)

We've demonstrated our loyalty to the USA by serving in numbers way out of proportion since then. We all shiver when we see the Stars and Stipes.

Happy birthday USA! We're all one people now! (Why, some of my best friends are Yankees. No, really!)



(in reply to Jonah)
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