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Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/1/2008 3:20:46 PM   
Tronjer

 

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quote:

We're Sorry.

We were unable to verify your payment information. Please use an alternate payment option if available. Thank you

(Error Number: 30024901 - 0)


That's what I just got by trying to order a game at DigitalRiver and choosing paypal for payment. Is that a temporary error ? Since last time paypal worked fine for me.
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RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/1/2008 4:11:47 PM   
Greybriar


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I suspect the problem is due to Matrix Servers On The Move....

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RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/1/2008 10:12:11 PM   
Hertston


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That shouldn't affect Digital River. Might be a cookie problem.

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RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/2/2008 10:23:41 AM   
Tronjer

 

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DigitalRiver obviously recently changed something. Paypal refused to finish the billing process because I do not use a cc for this account. However, when I purchased my last matrix game, about 2 weeks ago, it still worked fine.

To make a long story short. I found an ebay shop in Poland selling WITP for USD 32,-. That's about Euro 22,- + shipment when I would have to pay like Euro 60,- to Matrix. And guess what, they accepted my paypal billing without anny hassle.

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RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/2/2008 11:03:41 AM   
Marc von Martial


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tronjer
To make a long story short. I found an ebay shop in Poland selling WITP for USD 32,-. That's about Euro 22,- + shipment when I would have to pay like Euro 60,- to Matrix. And guess what, they accepted my paypal billing without anny hassle.


I just hope it is a legit copy.


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RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/2/2008 11:06:35 AM   
Marc von Martial


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Please contact support@matrixgames.com and describe the problem (with shop error number) they will be able to assist you.

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RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/2/2008 11:40:21 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck
I just hope it is a legit copy.


Frankly, I doubt it is. We don't have any contracts that I'm aware of allowing anyone to sell WITP at that price on the internet.

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RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/2/2008 11:59:32 AM   
Tronjer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

Please contact support@matrixgames.com and describe the problem (with shop error number) they will be able to assist you.


I send you a pm, makes it easier for me to explain.

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Post #: 8
RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/3/2008 8:25:07 AM   
David Heath


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Hi Guys

Those copies are not valid and we will not honor them.  Our current and future updates will not work with these versions.

David


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RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/3/2008 11:48:29 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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As far as I know WITP never even had a Polish version, so that's straight out illegal in all aspects, not just a distribution breach.

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Erik Rutins
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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 10
RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/3/2008 12:49:32 PM   
sterckxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
As far as I know WITP never even had a Polish version, so that's straight out illegal in all aspects, not just a distribution breach.


May I make a point here ?

How is the (potential) customer to know all of this ? Is there a list somewhere of authorized dealers ?

Here we have a guy shopping around for a game and finding it in a webshop for $20 – cheap – but not unlikely cheap giving it’s age and the fact an enhanced edition is coming out soon – so he buys it in good faith only to find out he’s bought a pirated copy. I know that’s not Matrix’s fault, and it’s just a suggestion, but giving that guy a $20 rebate on a legitimate purchase with DR or somewhere else would be a good move I think.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx


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Post #: 11
RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/3/2008 1:19:18 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Eddy,

quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe
How is the (potential) customer to know all of this ? Is there a list somewhere of authorized dealers ?


If in doubt, you can always ask us here. It's a fairly short list and there are absolutely no E-Bay resellers on it as far as I know. This is not to say that an individual customer might not list his copy up there, but nothing like this "E-Bay store" is authorized by us. The one deal we made in Poland was for distribution within Poland only and was some years ago for a single limited print run.

In short, if you're purchasing new copies from Poland in 2008, you're getting illegal copies and we're not seeing a single cent of it, nor is the developer.

quote:

Here we have a guy shopping around for a game and finding it in a webshop for $20 – cheap – but not unlikely cheap giving it’s age and the fact an enhanced edition is coming out soon – so he buys it in good faith only to find out he’s bought a pirated copy. I know that’s not Matrix’s fault, and it’s just a suggestion, but giving that guy a $20 rebate on a legitimate purchase with DR or somewhere else would be a good move I think.


I have to respectfully disagree. This would setup an incentive structure where purchasing pirated copies would result in discounts on legal copies. What would be the reason to purchase a legal copy then without getting a pirated copy first?

The customer should pursue getting a refund with the seller and/or E-Bay. FYI, we tested our PayPal purchasing yesterday and it works fine, so I'm not sure what the problem was that the customer ran into, but I believe our support is working with him at this time.

Regards,

- Erik

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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 12
RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/3/2008 1:41:45 PM   
Terminus


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Well, sterckxe, one way of knowing it might be to ask yourself "is this too good to be true"?

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RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/3/2008 1:53:59 PM   
sterckxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus
Well, sterckxe, one way of knowing it might be to ask yourself "is this too good to be true"?


- NWS sells HPS games $10 cheaper than HPS does - too good to be true or not ?
- Bargain bins are full of good games for less than $10 - even wargames, as I saw the Spanish version of Take Command : Second Manassas for around $10 less than a week ago - too good to be true ?

Those are just a couple of examples - the fact remains the guy didn't go looking for a Torrent, he went looking for a place to buy the game. It's probably counter-productive (read : stupid) to have a policy where Matrix picks up the tab when this kind of thing happens, but I can't help to feel sorry for the guy.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 14
RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/3/2008 2:11:23 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Eddy,

I feel bad for him too, since he ran into the problem while we were away and tried to find a way around it through E-Bay, obviously without intending to buy an illegal copy. However, I do agree however that when you see a game priced $10 less than usual it's not generally something to wonder about, but when you see a $70 game priced for $20-$30 on E-Bay your BS detector should kick in.

Regards,

- Erik

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Freedom is not Free.

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Post #: 15
RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/3/2008 2:45:00 PM   
sterckxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Eddy,

I feel bad for him too, since he ran into the problem while we were away and tried to find a way around it through E-Bay, obviously without intending to buy an illegal copy. However, I do agree however that when you see a game priced $10 less than usual it's not generally something to wonder about, but when you see a $70 game priced for $20-$30 on E-Bay your BS detector should kick in.

Regards,


Highway to the Reich : $60 at Digital River, $15 at NWS ...

http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net/hitorecdrome.html

Yeah, I know, at eBay it's always caveat emptor and I wouldn't have trusted it either, but the whole sad story is just so unfair on the guy it touched me.

Sue the sh*t out of that eBay store on my behalf will you ?

End of rant

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
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RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/3/2008 5:42:07 PM   
Tronjer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


I have to respectfully disagree. This would setup an incentive structure where purchasing pirated copies would result in discounts on legal copies. What would be the reason to purchase a legal copy then without getting a pirated copy first?

The customer should pursue getting a refund with the seller and/or E-Bay. FYI, we tested our PayPal purchasing yesterday and it works fine, so I'm not sure what the problem was that the customer ran into, but I believe our support is working with him at this time.

Regards,

- Erik


Actually paypal purchase did not work. I already pm'd Marc and explained the problem because it was easier for me to expose this in my native language. He should have let you know.

Anyway, the whole issue came up for the lack in communication:

On Monday I attempted to purchase a product from DigitalRiver and couldn't finish the process. So I came to here, posted and explained the problem. Two people made comments about what possibly could caused it, but no official Matrix employee bothered to answer. Now you could argue why I simply didn't contact customer service and I will tell you why not. When you look a few threads down, there is another post I made in March about having problems with a redownload and in addition sent 2 emails to customer service. I never got a response for this. Actually Marc was answering 3(!) month later to the thread when I luckily found a workaround long ago. Matrix has a very engaged community and produces decent wargames but their cs leaves room for improvement, to say the least.

On tuesday I tried again to buy WITP via DR shop and it still didn't work. Checking this thread and there was no official answer I went to Ebay and found a good bargain. The vendor offered it as official keyed version, English language version produced in Poland. This guy is selling several Matrix titles and got 100% positive reviews from all over the world. How am I supposed to know that he doesn't deal with legit copies ? JFYI, where I live older Matrix games, as far as they are available here, being considerable cheaper. Par example Battles in Normandy get offered for Euro 12,99 when it's still 41,99 at DigitalRiver. Provided you Amazon link below.

http://www.amazon.de/Battles-in-Normandy-Die-Entscheidung/dp/B000GYJUGU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1215103018&sr=8-3

So when a German distributor as CDV can legally sell inexpensive copies of Matrix titles, my common sense should tell me a Polish reseller is able to do so as well, no ? Insinuating I careless (or willful) accepted to buy a pirate copy is insulting and all your support 'worked out' with me, was sending an automated mail, requesting to complete payment process. You don't expect me to buy a second copy now, do you ?

Actually I rather expected something like a sorry for my hassle and a thank you, for me bringing those Ebay reseller to your attention – so you can take further action. After all it's Matrix losing money to this, not me, neither it's my job to pursue this guy. In the end you could have offered a decent rabate in case I'm willing to buy another, legit copy of WITP from Matrix.
However, argueing or blaming leaves you nothing but an aggravated customer.

Sorry for my bad english


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RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/3/2008 6:43:11 PM   
Marc von Martial


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I'm sorry for your bad experience in this very case, but it surely is not a reflection of our CS in general.

quote:

Insinuating I careless (or willful) accepted to buy a pirate copy is insulting


I think that is a language barrier problem here. Erik ment this in now way insulting or blamed you willfully being pirated software.

quote:

and all your support 'worked out' with me, was sending an automated mail, requesting to complete payment process.


Apparently you did contact DR's shop infrasturcture support, they really lack in CS and I agree, Erik will too. We have ask many times that they get their act together. However our companies support (support@matrixgames.com) is definitely not lacking in these cases and we have a prime record on this, this would have been the CS to contact for a speedy reply. This very situation is FUBAR in many aspects. You contacted the "wrong" support, the whole MG staff was away for a week (still doing customer support in the evening "freetime") for the Origins Game Fair and on top of it a store error occured that should not have occured.

With regards to the WITP copy from Poland. The transaction is PayPal secured. I would suggest to claim a problem solving process via PayPal and ask your money back since you have legitimate doubt that the software bought is actually legit. The auction is insured up to 1000,- € as I can see from the link you provided. I have used this process myself in the past and PayPal did work it out very quick.

quote:

Actually Marc was answering 3(!) month later to the thread when I luckily found a workaround long ago. Matrix has a very engaged community and produces decent wargames but their cs leaves room for improvement, to say the least.


I am not customer support, I work as freelance Art Director and Senior Artist here. I help were I can and when something crosses my path while I check the forums I'm happy to answer if possible and I know an answer. But I surely can not be blamed for lacking CS since I'm by far not the person to contact if you want speedy customer support. Our support can be contacted via support@matrixgames.com or in the very near future via our new Helpdesk system which will even speed up the whole stuff and make it trackable for the customer on top of it.


< Message edited by Marc Schwanebeck -- 7/3/2008 6:47:39 PM >


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RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/3/2008 9:44:39 PM   
Tronjer

 

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Im going to send you a pm.

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RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/3/2008 10:47:01 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Tronjer,

To be clear, I never suggested that you were looking for an illegal copy. In fact it took some looking for us to determine that in fact it was illegal. However, now that you've got it, it's up to you what you want to do with it.

I'm sorry for the trouble you had, but PayPal in our store is working right now in general so there must be some kind of more specific issue at work. Are you currently being helped by our support on that? If not, let me know and I'll make sure they investigate it further based on your order. As Marc said, our support and Digital River's support are two different things and unfortunately DR is often not very good support-wise, but as far as I know we answer all requests within 24 hours (48 hours over the weekend). The only problem was that pretty much our whole staff was away last week at our big convention.

Regards,

- Erik

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Erik Rutins
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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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RE: Paypal no valid payment option anymore ? - 7/5/2008 4:40:39 AM   
Nixuebrig

 

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..........................

< Message edited by Prince -- 7/5/2008 5:25:03 AM >

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