Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Japan - Placement of Tokyo

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> World in Flames >> Japan - Placement of Tokyo Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/15/2008 5:10:11 AM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1054
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline
The change on the map prevents a Nav from being on both sea zones when in Tokyo. Previously to the updated map, an air unit could fly to either sea zone at full range. Now the only hex next to japan that is adjacent to both sea zones, is a hex that is only in supply by oversea supply.

I would recommend that either

1) We adjust Tokyo to have a hexside on both sea zones
2) We add a straights symbol to trace overland supply to the Island hex that is on both sea zones.

I prefer the latter option.

I did a search of the forum and failed to find mention of this.


_____________________________

Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln
Post #: 1
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/15/2008 5:27:07 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22020
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99

The change on the map prevents a Nav from being on both sea zones when in Tokyo. Previously to the updated map, an air unit could fly to either sea zone at full range. Now the only hex next to japan that is adjacent to both sea zones, is a hex that is only in supply by oversea supply.

I would recommend that either

1) We adjust Tokyo to have a hexside on both sea zones
2) We add a straights symbol to trace overland supply to the Island hex that is on both sea zones.

I prefer the latter option.

I did a search of the forum and failed to find mention of this.


Moving Tokyo would be a lot of work, think of all the people!

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Zorachus99)
Post #: 2
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/15/2008 5:33:34 AM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1054
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline
Mind posting a piccy of the area Steve?

_____________________________

Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 3
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/15/2008 5:40:18 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22020
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
No problem.

This is from Dec. 2006 but I don't believe anything has changed since then.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Zorachus99)
Post #: 4
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/15/2008 5:47:06 AM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1054
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline
I've become used to placing 3 aircraft in Tokyo in Wif being on both sea areas.  Now you cannot place Nav on both sea zones unless you also provide at-sea supply.  Comments people?

_____________________________

Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 5
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/15/2008 6:30:06 AM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline
Actually Yokohama has been added Southwest of Tokyo.  Comparing the distances with the CWiF program;  it is the same there.

Lars

(in reply to Zorachus99)
Post #: 6
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/15/2008 6:41:19 AM   
Norman42


Posts: 244
Joined: 2/9/2008
From: Canada
Status: offline
Actually, yes, that is quite a change, I hadn't noticed it before.

Tokyo based aircraft served the multiple purposes of factory/fleet protection and being able to project supplied airpower directly into 2 very important sea zones.

Losing that ability on the Japanese mainland is fairly significant. Now Japan can only position one aircraft in Japan with the ability to project into 2 seazones instead of three aircraft, and that one aircraft would indeed need sea supply.

Even making a straits arrow to the island only solves the supply issue for 1 aircraft in good weather.  You still lose 2 strategically placed aircraft bases.



_____________________________

-------------

C.L.Norman

(in reply to Zorachus99)
Post #: 7
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/15/2008 7:36:59 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22020
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
Here are current maps of Japan, starting with the southern half of the home islands.

We had discussed this in some detail as I recall. The change in scale means that two MWIF hexes are equivalane to 1 WIF Pacfic map hex. So as Lars said, Yokohama is equivalent to Tokyo in the WIF FE maps.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 6/15/2008 7:40:34 AM >


_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Norman42)
Post #: 8
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/15/2008 7:41:02 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22020
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
The norhtern half of the home islands




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 9
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/15/2008 7:42:28 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22020
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
A closer view of the important main southern islands.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 10
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/15/2008 7:43:36 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22020
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
A closer view of Hokaido and the Tsugaru Strait.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 11
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/15/2008 7:47:58 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22020
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
5th and last in series. An even closer view of the area under discussion.

Note the major ports, factories, and terrain. Compared to the WIF FE map there are many important differences.

The discussion on this revolved around defending the major ports and factories which are vital for conquering Japan.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 6/15/2008 7:49:01 AM >


_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 12
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/15/2008 11:28:29 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99

The change on the map prevents a Nav from being on both sea zones when in Tokyo. Previously to the updated map, an air unit could fly to either sea zone at full range. Now the only hex next to japan that is adjacent to both sea zones, is a hex that is only in supply by oversea supply.

I would recommend that either

1) We adjust Tokyo to have a hexside on both sea zones
2) We add a straights symbol to trace overland supply to the Island hex that is on both sea zones.

I prefer the latter option.

I did a search of the forum and failed to find mention of this.


To move from Tokyo to any adjacent Sea Area you needed to fly 2 MP on the WiF FE map.
If you look on the MWiF map for places that allow moving into both sea area flying 2 MP, and that are also in supply from a land path only, you have a lot of room. Yokohama, and the hexes SW & SE of Yokohama. So for me no change are needed.
Moreover, it is impossible to move Tokyo where you say, Tokyo is at the bottom of a deep bay in reality.
As for the straits, there's no need so let's keep this area as it is.

(in reply to Zorachus99)
Post #: 13
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/15/2008 5:54:37 PM   
Harold Haralson

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 12/24/2004
Status: offline
Are we staying true to the original game or creating a new one?

Whether or not it is staying true to the original game may make a big
difference to a lot of people. People vote with their money.


(in reply to Zorachus99)
Post #: 14
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/15/2008 7:10:34 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harold Haralson

Are we staying true to the original game or creating a new one?

Whether or not it is staying true to the original game may make a big
difference to a lot of people. People vote with their money.

We are staying true to the original game, but the scale of the map is the European scale al around.
Please note that this was an original ADG decision.

(in reply to Harold Haralson)
Post #: 15
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/15/2008 7:58:31 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22020
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Harold Haralson

Are we staying true to the original game or creating a new one?

Whether or not it is staying true to the original game may make a big
difference to a lot of people. People vote with their money.



We're certainly giving it our best shot.

The major change is to use the European map scale worldwide. That has a lot of consequences, since the larger scale used in WIF FE, for everywhere in the world except Europe, meant Australian Design Group had to use a cruder approxiamation of reality. By going to the more detailed scale, we feel MWIF has the responsibilty to improve the accuracy of the 'terrain' shown in each hex.

Here you see what we have done for Japan, and it was an agonizingly long decision, balancing the historical reality of the 'terrain' in Japan, its factories, cities, ports, and rail lines, against how WIF FE plays when defending Japan against Allied attacks (usually late in the war). There is a thread somewhere in this forum where the complete discussion on all aspects of this is available for review by anyone who wants to. My involvement in those decisions was as a player (not project manager/developer), and it was far less than the involvement by some of the other forum members.

Another example we quote often is the change in China where the sheer number of hexes increased by "times 6".

Is MWIF just simply WIF FE transferred to the computer? No.

How much of WIF FE is transferred precisely to MWIF? Disregarding the map scale, I would say 99%. And this is not a number grabbed out of thin air.

Rules as Coded (RAC - which I use as the design specification document for MWIF) is a direct copy of Rules as Written (RAW) that contains 23 entries labeled Deviations. Most Deviations are single sentences that concern: the global map using the unified European scale, unit counters not being turned face down, and the abstraction of chits from physical objects to entries in a computer table. Compare this to the 200+ Clarifications in RAC which came directly from Harry Rowland and represent his answers to questions about WIF over the past 12 years.

Oh, and yes, we are very sensitive on this point.

EDIT: RAC is 154 pages long.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 6/15/2008 7:59:34 PM >


_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Harold Haralson)
Post #: 16
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/16/2008 5:58:57 PM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline
As it stands, Yokohama fulfills exactly the role Tokyo did in WiF:FE (at the old scale). You spend 2 points of range to get out to either sea area, and start climbing the boxes (or not), which is exactly as it was in WiF:FE, and you still have three planes available.



_____________________________

~ Composer99

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 17
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/16/2008 6:39:46 PM   
sajbalk


Posts: 264
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Davenport, Iowa
Status: offline
All the desires to have Tokyo a two front port are still available. As to the air, there are more basing opportunites for the Japanese now than in WiFFE.

No need to change the map.



_____________________________

Steve Balk
Iowa, USA

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 18
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/19/2008 3:14:43 AM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1054
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

As it stands, Yokohama fulfills exactly the role Tokyo did in WiF:FE (at the old scale). You spend 2 points of range to get out to either sea area, and start climbing the boxes (or not), which is exactly as it was in WiF:FE, and you still have three planes available.




Yes absolutely correct. I hadn't considered that the 'extra' movement point allocated to Japanese planes allowed them to fly to the same sea-box in the pacific scale. Looks like I was making much ado about nothing.

_____________________________

Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 19
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/19/2008 3:23:16 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22020
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

As it stands, Yokohama fulfills exactly the role Tokyo did in WiF:FE (at the old scale). You spend 2 points of range to get out to either sea area, and start climbing the boxes (or not), which is exactly as it was in WiF:FE, and you still have three planes available.




Yes absolutely correct. I hadn't considered that the 'extra' movement point allocated to Japanese planes allowed them to fly to the same sea-box in the pacific scale. Looks like I was making much ado about nothing.

Oh well, at least it got me to post current screen shots of Japan.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Zorachus99)
Post #: 20
RE: Japan - Placement of Tokyo - 6/19/2008 5:41:51 PM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline
Current screen shots = always good.

_____________________________

~ Composer99

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 21
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> World in Flames >> Japan - Placement of Tokyo Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.367