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RE: AE Released at what date?

 
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RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/17/2008 7:08:55 AM   
pad152

 

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Let them take their time, I don't want to restart the same campaign with a patch of the week!

(in reply to sventhebold)
Post #: 61
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/17/2008 9:35:17 AM   
Ambassador

 

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But you could be outside in the warmer weather, soaking up the near 18 hours of daylight, with a laptop and AE.

(in reply to sventhebold)
Post #: 62
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/18/2008 4:55:12 AM   
Flying Tiger

 

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quote:

Let them take their time, I don't want to restart the same campaign with a patch of the week!


SO TRUE!! I must have played that first turn of WitP at least a dozen times! And at about 3 hours per turn.... AAAAARRRGGGGHHHHH!!!

(in reply to Ambassador)
Post #: 63
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/18/2008 7:26:21 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
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yes i also do not want to restart a campain i have started because of an update my first turn took 8 hours over 3 days back in 2002 ,and never finnished the campain because of the flaws.

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Post #: 64
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/19/2008 3:02:03 AM   
Hornblower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

Let them take their time, I don't want to restart the same campaign with a patch of the week!


Agreed. I would much rather wait and allow the designers to get this right, as much as they are able, then have them rush to market a product that will require re-install and bug after bug..

(in reply to pad152)
Post #: 65
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/19/2008 7:40:52 AM   
romanovich

 

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Maybe Matrix could pre-release the manual? That way, we would have sufficient time to work through the 1,600 pages of small-printed explanations of the games's revised algorithms. That way we'd be ready for the Nov. 1, '09 release date. 

(in reply to Hornblower)
Post #: 66
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/19/2008 7:46:19 AM   
Gem35


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quote:

ORIGINAL: romanovich

Maybe Matrix could pre-release the manual? That way, we would have sufficient time to work through the 1,600 pages of small-printed explanations of the games's revised algorithms. That way we'd be ready for the Nov. 1, '09 release date. 

nah, the game will be ready by christmas, I'll bet you a dollar.

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Post #: 67
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/19/2008 8:22:37 AM   
jwilkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: romanovich

Maybe Matrix could pre-release the manual? That way, we would have sufficient time to work through the 1,600 pages of small-printed explanations of the games's revised algorithms. That way we'd be ready for the Nov. 1, '09 release date. 


This sounds intriguing. But the one thing I've never figured out (after 20+ years of project experience) is how to write an accurate 1,600 page manual, 18 months prior to releasing the system!!


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New Game Project Lead

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Post #: 68
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/19/2008 9:32:15 AM   
Jo van der Pluym


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: romanovich

Maybe Matrix could pre-release the manual? That way, we would have sufficient time to work through the 1,600 pages of small-printed explanations of the games's revised algorithms. That way we'd be ready for the Nov. 1, '09 release date. 


This sounds intriguing. But the one thing I've never figured out (after 20+ years of project experience) is how to write an accurate 1,600 page manual, 18 months prior to releasing the system!!



Thanks for the Release date. It's nice to know that it's by Christmass 2009


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CrazyDutch

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 69
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/19/2008 9:39:18 AM   
romanovich

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: romanovich

Maybe Matrix could pre-release the manual? That way, we would have sufficient time to work through the 1,600 pages of small-printed explanations of the games's revised algorithms. That way we'd be ready for the Nov. 1, '09 release date. 


This sounds intriguing. But the one thing I've never figured out (after 20+ years of project experience) is how to write an accurate 1,600 page manual, 18 months prior to releasing the system!!




Good Lord. So you haven't even started with the manual yet?

Gem35, you'll be out your dollar...


(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 70
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/19/2008 10:08:23 AM   
TheElf


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Besides being the Air Team Lead I am a player of WitP. As a player I can say I would rather wait the extra time, whatever that may be, to have a tight Database. The things that drive restarts are changes to the database or the Scenario file, typically not code changes. Something that has data in a device or new units. However this type of restart isn’t required, often it is desired by the player. At least in my case. I’m a big fan of accuracy.

Having been on the inside now for about 2 years, I will say this, and it’s very important:
This project isn’t your typical video game. This is a MAJOR undertaking and attempts to take a concept that was considered grandiose, impossible, crazy, groggish, niche, and obtuse, and improve it. Or if you like, actually make it more grandiose, impossible, crazy, groggish, niche, and obtuse.

This also isn’t your typical video game in the sense that we are not all professional software developers. We are mostly players, making a product for players. And we are all part-timers. As such I foresee a period after release where everyone needs to feel this thing out, possibly wait for things to settle out and for some time to pass where many more eyes are looking at it before anyone commits to a real longterm PBEM. Your expectation SHOULD be “Lets take this baby for a test drive and see how things work”

I for one can’t wait for everyone to see this thing. It really is impressive, but there are going to be some challenges. Fortunately I think those challenges are worth the new experience.

The juice is worth the squeeze…

< Message edited by TheElf -- 6/19/2008 10:09:03 AM >


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(in reply to romanovich)
Post #: 71
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/19/2008 11:09:00 AM   
Ambassador

 

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: romanovich

Maybe Matrix could pre-release the manual? That way, we would have sufficient time to work through the 1,600 pages of small-printed explanations of the games's revised algorithms. That way we'd be ready for the Nov. 1, '09 release date. 


This sounds intriguing. But the one thing I've never figured out (after 20+ years of project experience) is how to write an accurate 1,600 page manual, 18 months prior to releasing the system!!


My experience of working with politicians proves the contrary... you usually have all the documentations long before a change is effective, even long before they have settled their minds. And I don't believe programming to be more random than the politician's mind.

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 72
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/19/2008 11:39:37 AM   
undercovergeek

 

Posts: 1526
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf


Besides being the Air Team Lead I am a player of WitP. As a player I can say I would rather wait the extra time, whatever that may be, to have a tight Database. The things that drive restarts are changes to the database or the Scenario file, typically not code changes. Something that has data in a device or new units. However this type of restart isn’t required, often it is desired by the player. At least in my case. I’m a big fan of accuracy.

Having been on the inside now for about 2 years, I will say this, and it’s very important:
This project isn’t your typical video game. This is a MAJOR undertaking and attempts to take a concept that was considered grandiose, impossible, crazy, groggish, niche, and obtuse, and improve it. Or if you like, actually make it more grandiose, impossible, crazy, groggish, niche, and obtuse.

This also isn’t your typical video game in the sense that we are not all professional software developers. We are mostly players, making a product for players. And we are all part-timers. As such I foresee a period after release where everyone needs to feel this thing out, possibly wait for things to settle out and for some time to pass where many more eyes are looking at it before anyone commits to a real longterm PBEM. Your expectation SHOULD be “Lets take this baby for a test drive and see how things work”

I for one can’t wait for everyone to see this thing. It really is impressive, but there are going to be some challenges. Fortunately I think those challenges are worth the new experience.

The juice is worth the squeeze…


Very informative and interesting, anticipation levels even more now!!!!

but................

its not summer 08 then?

< Message edited by undercovergeek -- 6/19/2008 5:05:10 PM >

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 73
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/19/2008 3:38:02 PM   
cantona2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Besides being the Air Team Lead I am a player of WitP. As a player I can say I would rather wait the extra time, whatever that may be, to have a tight Database. The things that drive restarts are changes to the database or the Scenario file, typically not code changes. Something that has data in a device or new units. However this type of restart isn’t required, often it is desired by the player. At least in my case. I’m a big fan of accuracy.

Having been on the inside now for about 2 years, I will say this, and it’s very important:
This project isn’t your typical video game. This is a MAJOR undertaking and attempts to take a concept that was considered grandiose, impossible, crazy, groggish, niche, and obtuse, and improve it. Or if you like, actually make it more grandiose, impossible, crazy, groggish, niche, and obtuse.

This also isn’t your typical video game in the sense that we are not all professional software developers. We are mostly players, making a product for players. And we are all part-timers. As such I foresee a period after release where everyone needs to feel this thing out, possibly wait for things to settle out and for some time to pass where many more eyes are looking at it before anyone commits to a real longterm PBEM. Your expectation SHOULD be “Lets take this baby for a test drive and see how things work”

I for one can’t wait for everyone to see this thing. It really is impressive, but there are going to be some challenges. Fortunately I think those challenges are worth the new experience.

The juice is worth the squeeze…


Excellently and succintly put Elf. Now i want AE even more


_____________________________

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(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 74
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/19/2008 7:22:14 PM   
Enginemount

 

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"The juice is worth the squeeze..."

I love it! I'd never heard that one before.
You know, I get more fun out of these forums than I do from the game.

I agree with cantona2 - excellently put Elf.


(in reply to cantona2)
Post #: 75
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/19/2008 9:10:35 PM   
Gem35


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From: Dallas, Texas
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a$$-kissing will not get AE finished any more faster...

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(in reply to Enginemount)
Post #: 76
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/19/2008 9:14:27 PM   
m10bob


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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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Won't you help a friend in need ?




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 77
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/19/2008 10:39:05 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Its sad but true when its ready and the AI works we will release not before - I cannnot give you all a date because I dont know yet

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 78
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/19/2008 10:39:10 PM   
cantona2


Posts: 3749
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

a$$-kissing will not get AE finished any more faster...


Damn it!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post #: 79
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/20/2008 2:30:44 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

a$$-kissing will not get AE finished any more faster...



Well that tears it !!




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 80
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/20/2008 3:38:57 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 23995
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From: Zagreb, Croatia
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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

a$$-kissing will not get AE finished any more faster...



Well that tears it !!








Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 81
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/21/2008 3:29:30 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
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From: brisbane oz
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So its out next week with a hopefull look on his face... Dam yankes ...its worth the squeeze...depends on what you are squeein....are we there yet.

_____________________________


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Post #: 82
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/21/2008 4:33:11 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 25902
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From: Argleton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

This sounds intriguing. But the one thing I've never figured out (after 20+ years of project experience) is how to write an accurate 1,600 page manual, 18 months prior to releasing the system!!


Back in the 80's one system at work was done with the manual written before the system was written. The idea was logical, but so are many bad ideas!

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 83
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/21/2008 4:34:37 AM   
jwilkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Back in the 80's one system at work was done with the manual written before the system was written.



That might be great - if the programmers looked at the manual!


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New Game Project Lead

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Post #: 84
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/21/2008 5:08:46 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 23995
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From: Zagreb, Croatia
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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Back in the 80's one system at work was done with the manual written before the system was written.



That might be great - if the programmers looked at the manual!



Manual? What manual? What is manual?


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 85
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/21/2008 5:32:10 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Back in the 80's one system at work was done with the manual written before the system was written.



That might be great - if the programmers looked at the manual!




Luckily....WE don't need no stinking manuals !!




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 86
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/21/2008 9:30:28 PM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

This sounds intriguing. But the one thing I've never figured out (after 20+ years of project experience) is how to write an accurate 1,600 page manual, 18 months prior to releasing the system!!


Back in the 80's one system at work was done with the manual written before the system was written. The idea was logical, but so are many bad ideas!



To write a 300-page manual from scratch is a person-year or a little more. To revise an existing 300-page manual is around four person-months. These are direct costs. Multiply by about 2 to get the total costs.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 87
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/21/2008 10:09:29 PM   
Rainer

 

Posts: 1210
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Your data may apply in Academia.
Discuss your estimates with professional technical writers or editors.
You will be suprised.


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Post #: 88
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/21/2008 10:36:51 PM   
Grotius


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So how is AE going, anyway? Working on the AI primarily these days? How's that going?

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Post #: 89
RE: AE Released at what date? - 6/21/2008 11:14:06 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15171
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Well and badly we ended up abandoning efforts on the AI as was and our in house programming team have re written it.

Which means we are in re input mode at present last weekend I did the Japanese AI 30 hours of input over 2 days !!!!

This weekend its India and the Brits for me doing Ceylon command as I sit here now

Lots to do before we can get back to testing.

The AI really has been the hardest part of this.....

(in reply to Grotius)
Post #: 90
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