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RE: Petition For Bases

 
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RE: Petition For Bases - 3/26/2008 3:54:00 PM   
z1812


Posts: 1638
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From: Toronto Ontario
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Hi All,

I have no experience with coding and so I have no idea how much difficulty there is in enabling a toggle to turn features off and on.

However I do find games that allow you to choose features are some of my favorites.

Being able to spot exactly where your units are located is quite handy. A coin or floating icon will work best for some while bases are the favourite of others. I have games with both systems and the base is my indicator of choice. Of course having a choice would be the best resolution. Easy for me to say...............I don't have to code it.

Regards John

(in reply to Krasny)
Post #: 31
RE: Petition For Bases - 3/26/2008 4:10:53 PM   
Mobius


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Joined: 6/30/2006
From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
I'm not a fan of the small map. I'm sure there are those that are going find they like it really well. What I think that small map should do is show your objectives and known enemy positions but NOT update in real time. That's not what the commander would have available to him. Not even today.
Maybe there should be a key to toggle it off and on?

Oh, you are trying to be consistent with the theory that the game should display only what the company commader would or would not know. That's a different thread.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 32
RE: Petition For Bases - 3/26/2008 4:58:39 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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I guess I could see turning it off in some kind of "extreme fog of war" setting, but honestly I think most players just consider it a play aid and would find it annoying to not have access to it, since it doesn't actually show anything that's not on the map.

As far as implementing bases, if the bases were say a nationality-color-coded hollow "ring" around the perimeter of the unit, without being under the unit itself, then it would still work to highlight the unit without coming between it and the terrain.

I figured we would add this type of option into the cycle we currently have. The "I" key right now toggles between the following and we would add bases to that:

Plain Units - Units with National Icons - Units with Type Icons - Units with National Bases

The game remembers your choice, so you would just have to set it to bases when you start up for the first time and they'd stay on for future scenarios. Hit the I key again when you want to toggle them off or switch to floating icons. Tree transparency is on the to do list.

Regards,

- Erik

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Erik Rutins
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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to Mobius)
Post #: 33
RE: Petition For Bases - 3/26/2008 8:18:26 PM   
JameyCribbs

 

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Whatever you do, please do not remove the option to display the coin in future games. I like the coin much more than I like bases. I especially dislike the kind of bases that Ravinhood wants, that look like little miniature bases. I never got into miniature gaming, so bases actually detract from game immersion for me.

Different strokes...

Jamey

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 34
RE: Petition For Bases - 3/26/2008 8:29:11 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 34571
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JameyCribbs
Whatever you do, please do not remove the option to display the coin in future games. I like the coin much more than I like bases. I especially dislike the kind of bases that Ravinhood wants, that look like little miniature bases. I never got into miniature gaming, so bases actually detract from game immersion for me.


Don't worry, we won't be removing, just adding.


_____________________________


Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to JameyCribbs)
Post #: 35
RE: Petition For Bases - 3/26/2008 9:15:58 PM   
jamespcrowley

 

Posts: 421
Joined: 6/10/2003
From: Chichester UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

As far as implementing bases, if the bases were say a nationality-color-coded hollow "ring" around the perimeter of the unit, without being under the unit itself, then it would still work to highlight the unit without coming between it and the terrain.

I figured we would add this type of option into the cycle we currently have. The "I" key right now toggles between the following and we would add bases to that:

Plain Units - Units with National Icons - Units with Type Icons - Units with National Bases

The game remembers your choice, so you would just have to set it to bases when you start up for the first time and they'd stay on for future scenarios. Hit the I key again when you want to toggle them off or switch to floating icons. Tree transparency is on the to do list.

Regards,

- Erik


That would seem to be a very elegant solution as it caters for all tastes and is very simple to operate.

Is this a 'next release' option or might it be patched into PCK after release?


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Cheers

Jim

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 36
RE: Petition For Bases - 3/26/2008 9:20:54 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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IIRC, the Talonsoft WW2 Campaign tactical games had units with bases, but they were round and weren't those awful day-glow things. Including something like that wouldn't hurt the game, visually, but it wouldn't much help it either, other than making it somewhat easier to locate stuff in the woods, in the absence of "floating-coins," that is.

In reading through the thread, I keep thinking that something is going unarticulated, a prejudice against overhead markers because they are used in a lot of RT-games, Theatre of War, for instance. In the case of ToW and the others, I don't see the markers as having been adopted because they are fundamental to RT-play, but, rather, because they are more easily discerned by players than any sort of base graphic. They are an innovation. IMO, it'd be short-sighted for players to reject graphically updated markers because they are native to a genre of games that so many wargamers dislike.

As for the ongoing references to the use of bases in WW2 miniatures, I want to echo a previous poster's comments indicating that vehicles are universally deployed to tabletop battlefields sans stand. I've spent a lot of time gaming with GHQ micro-armour, and I've NEVER seen a vehicle with a base, not one. So, I'd suggest at this point that the use of stands for such vehicles is almost exclusively a technique associated with computer gaming.

Yes, it's necessary to include some sort of aid to help players locate units around the computer battlefield. Older games include bases, I'd suggest, because the graphical options available to designers in olden-times were less sophisticated than those at hand today. It's also sort of obvious that a designer who wanted to do a "unit-marker-on-the-cheap," would likely go with bases. But is that a legitimate reason for potential buyers to demand them? For me, the answer is an emphatic no. Resources are scarce, and I believe that the developer would be unwise to focus the few at hand on a second, in-game tool for locating units during play.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)


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Government is the opiate of the masses.

(in reply to JameyCribbs)
Post #: 37
RE: Petition For Bases - 3/26/2008 9:35:26 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2456
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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

As far as implementing bases, if the bases were say a nationality-color-coded hollow "ring" around the perimeter of the unit, without being under the unit itself, then it would still work to highlight the unit without coming between it and the terrain.



That sounds interesting, Erik, but it might still prove difficult to locate your units in the woods without resorting to a "day-glow" color-palet. I guess the devil will be in the implementation.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)


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Government is the opiate of the masses.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 38
RE: Petition For Bases - 3/27/2008 3:12:42 AM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
CM gamers forever asked for the ability to include tactical maps that could be marked to show enemy positions, objectives...etc...but this goes way beyond that concept.
Too far IMO.


I don't quite understand this, honestly. The mini-map just shows the data you already have on the 3D map in a 2D top-down format. It's the equivalent of zooming way out. Since it doesn't give the player any info he can't find by spending more time scrolling around the 3D map, it's just a time-saver.

Regards,

- Erik


Another issue we'll go into more in depth when the PCK release is done.

This is just a point of view issue anyway. Nothing you are going to change.

Good Hunting.

MR

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 39
RE: Petition For Bases - 3/27/2008 4:07:14 AM   
madorosh


Posts: 390
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I can only speak for myself, but I dislike the coin/disc not because of prejudice, but because they are not physically connected to the units they represent. The bases are right there, or in other words, the unit sits right on top of them - they are physically touching.

I do like the 2D minimap, but it is only presenting half the info you need - it is a quick reference to units, not unit types. Which is ok, I mean I get that it is not supposed to be its function. Only so much you can cram onto to it.

Anyway, asked and answered to my satisfaction. I think Erik has come up with the perfect system by permitting toggles between them, and of course, the ability to turn trees off/on. Screenshotters are happy, up high players are happy, down low players are happy.


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Post #: 40
RE: Petition For Bases - 3/28/2008 2:29:25 PM   
Krasny

 

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I also dislike floaty coins because of my experience with them in CM:SF.

Yep, one more (minor) reason why CM:SF is to be avoided.

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Post #: 41
RE: Petition For Bases - 8/13/2008 1:38:18 AM   
Larac

 

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Just be sure to make it an Option.

Some will like some will not, as for color allow a small set maybe 10 colors and perhaps a few ground textures.

Should make most happy.


Lee

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 42
RE: Petition For Bases - 8/13/2008 7:52:41 AM   
NefariousKoel


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From: Murderous Missouri Scum
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Bases... Coins... they all detract from the look of the game and it's a problem in most every 3D wargame I've played.

I say:

Make a hotkey that, when held down (not a toggle), shows an outline around the 3D image of your units on the screen.. or even a Base like above.  But when you release the key it goes right back off.  

I can find most things often enough and pushing down on something like the spacebar that will highlight my units while it's held down would help me figure out where to click on those hard-to-find infantry in the woods quickly and easily.  Hell, even a toggle would work if it has an easily accessible hotkey near the camera controls, I guess.


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Post #: 43
RE: Petition For Bases - 8/18/2008 7:13:10 PM   
von Staudt


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FWIW, I have come to like the coins.  I just toggle them on/off when I need to find a specific unit.

Also, FWIW, I use the small map to zoom around rather than scroll with the mouse.  I find it much faster, but then I have a slow computer. 

MR:  Shouldn't you be working?!

(in reply to NefariousKoel)
Post #: 44
RE: Petition For Bases - 8/19/2008 1:46:18 AM   
z1812


Posts: 1638
Joined: 9/1/2004
From: Toronto Ontario
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Hi All,

It would be useful if clicking on the "coin" selected the unit.

Regards John

(in reply to z1812)
Post #: 45
RE: Petition For Bases - 8/19/2008 2:38:15 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: von Staudt

FWIW, I have come to like the coins. I just toggle them on/off when I need to find a specific unit.

Also, FWIW, I use the small map to zoom around rather than scroll with the mouse. I find it much faster, but then I have a slow computer.

MR: Shouldn't you be working?!


At first this was an issue for me as well. But vS I only toggle them on during orders or when I need to know something. The rest of the time I toggle them off.

I was working back in MARCH when I posted last in this thread!!


Good Hunting.

MR

(in reply to von Staudt)
Post #: 46
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