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Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Panthers game

 
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Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Panthe... - 3/16/2008 2:39:13 PM   
ravinhood


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Now there's WinSPWAW by Shrapnel and there's SPWAW or is it SPW@W? and there's SPWW2. What are the differences between the 3 or 4? and which one offers the most stuff? Which one works with Mega Campaigns? Why are there so many versions now?

Nevermind I found what I was looking for in the SP threads.

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 3/16/2008 3:00:35 PM >


_____________________________

WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?


Post #: 1
RE: Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Pa... - 3/16/2008 4:32:00 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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The Mega-Campaigns are only for SPWAW and IMHO are awesome and the bang for the buck with those in terms of $/gaming hour is about as good as anything ever released.

There were two parallel development paths for the SP code once we got it - our SPWAW and the much later SPWW2, which split off from our team early on. Both ended up as excellent products, but each has features that the other doesn't. The SP community should be able to help as I'm no longer up to speed on the exact differences.

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(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 2
RE: Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Pa... - 3/16/2008 4:41:34 PM   
panzers

 

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I have one of them and I have a quesstion for Eric: do any of them have a tutoriol that has any informayion or makes any sense whatsoever. Never played the game because of it

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RE: Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Pa... - 3/16/2008 5:11:03 PM   
junk2drive


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Back in the last century there was SP, then SP2, then SP3.
SP and SP2 are squad level, DOS, and was the basis for SPWW2 which was then made for Windows hence WinSPWW2. Ditto WinSPMBT modern battles.
SP3 was platoon based, Windows and was the basis for the squad level mod SPWAW.

As such, they play differently. Some like one over the other, some like both. Full versions are free downloads.

(in reply to panzers)
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RE: Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Pa... - 3/16/2008 6:26:09 PM   
ravinhood


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Ok I like squad level so I should go with WinSPWW2 then right?

An if so where can I find some WinSPWAW PBEM opponents? I'm ready for a good stomping .....one way or the other. hehe

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 3/16/2008 6:34:46 PM >


_____________________________

WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?



(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 5
RE: Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Pa... - 3/16/2008 6:33:55 PM   
junk2drive


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Read it again, SP3 was platoon but SPWAW converts it to squad. So both are squad. Some people swear by one and swear at the other. I play both as I concider them two different games about the same subject.

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 6
RE: Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Pa... - 3/16/2008 6:36:08 PM   
ravinhood


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Ahh ok so both are squad now. Well I don't want to download umpteen jillion updates and patches in a row so I'm goin with WinSPWW2 and hopefully there's been no 10000 updates for it as I downloaded the free copy of it sometime last year I think. ;) Didn't get the CD version though, from what I understand it's just pretty pictures and some OOB silliness.

_____________________________

WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?



(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 7
RE: Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Pa... - 3/16/2008 6:40:32 PM   
junk2drive


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LOL WinSPWW2 has about 4 incremental updates and a baby on the way this spring.

I bought the CDs of MBT and WW2 for the ability to play at 1024x768 and in windowed mode. You also get 250 pbem slots that I never use  but some do.

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 8
RE: Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Pa... - 3/16/2008 7:01:10 PM   
ravinhood


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oh gawd no chit? Man I'm done with Steel Panthers then I guess. Combat Mission hasn't had but one update that I can recall in a couple of years. 1.03 I think it were. CMAK....I got that CMETO that works with CMAK and it's awesome. I can play all the old CMBO scenarios and stuff with the CMAK program and have all the goodies that CMAK brings with the old stuff.

_____________________________

WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?



(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 9
RE: Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Pa... - 3/16/2008 9:22:06 PM   
Charles_22


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ravinhood: My goodness mate, and here I was thinking you were the bastion of turn-based play, and it sounds like you barely have a notion of what are of the 2 greater efforts of turn-based has meant in terms of the history of wargaming. I tried earlier to tell you what I saw as the very fundamental differences between the games, my preferring winSPWW2 as it turns out (not that it was always that way), but since that reply got destroyed I decided against it. One of the primary things I will tell you however, is that you can set the individual visibility and map size for EVERY battle with the ease of a click; unlike SPWAW. I departed from SPWAW when the visibility got really bad and it looked like there was nothing the user could do about that. The map sizes, on the campaigns, would often involuntarily slip into the narrowest of narrow, and though it could be adjusted, or so I heard, when I tried to adjust it it didn't work. Even so, should it work, it's a lot more difficult to deal with to adjust it that way. 

I have deliberately left a lot out here, as I said I wouldn't get as deep as I originally planned, but for those PBEM types out there, winSPWW2 is so far ahead. They have a filtering system, a recent addition, which will direct your opfire. You can tell each and every unit, or as a group, a few things to do, and the following are just some of the opfire filtering options, not all: Range to fire, and at what (AFV, infantry, soft vehicles, ATG's). You can also tell them what amount of armor on the front of an AFV you are willing to have them fire at (both maximum and minimum). You can also give them an overwatch zone for each unit or platoon of any size and on any center hex you desire. Unfortunately the enemy AI is not programmed to use this awesome filtering, so for the campaigners of us it's just something to experiment with and try to decide on how much of using it is just being gamey. One could edit a scenario or battle and set the AI to do those things for each battle I suppose, because people can make scenarios enabling the AI to use filtering, but I figure most campaigners don't want to lose the element of surprise that editing each battle would do (though I guess automatic redeploy would largely eliminate "where" the units would be stationed), or it just seems too much of a hassle. Just loading the default infantry and armor filters they have I theorize would do quite a lot of more realistic play. It might be worth the effort to end up knowing what the enemy has, but not where they will redeploy to. Something tells me I am pretty sure I am going to experiment with that, but for now, I campaign on and am just trying to see how it works for my own guys, here and there. The concept of the filtering is clearly very good, but I don't have enough experience with it to know how well it actually works, and if I'm unwilling to edit the AI so they will filter every battle it's largely immaterial for me anyway. 

Now SPWAW, the last time I played it, did have an opfire filtering sytem of sorts, which at the time was better than the then winSPWW2 version. It interrupts the enemy turn as each action occurs. For example, for each enemy unit that moves within sight of one of your units, you will get a prompt as to whether you would desire to fire on it (now that I think about it, I do find it somewhat odd that the only reaction you can have, to enemy actions on their turn, is to fire or not. Why not react by moving as well? But then it is called opfire for a reason - both games have opfire, but not "opmove" if you will). So you can see how that is better than just setting ranges in the old manner of SP and everything reacting on their own. Problem was, the SPWAW method got very tiring for me over time. I grew tired of not only some of the dumbest units being the ones chosen for the opfire (you only had two possibilities for every seen action, so if you had a scout squad and an SPAA as the units chosen for the current enemy action, then you got no more choices if you declined both - I think it was actually three opfires "chances" maximum, and you could fire two times only). In heavy fighting, it got often quite unnnerving that I had to constantly input whether I wanted them to fire. I cannot recall if there would be any reaction fire "at all" if you didn't accept one of the prompts. So given the same situation, winSPWW2 might overreact to where every unit that can see the action, fires in response, whereas in SPWAW you might get too few opfires, but more than over a long haul you might want to constantly type. So I decided finally that I liked the winSPWW2 old style opfire better, because it was a way where I didn't have to input so much, and I didn't see much difference in my success between the two games opfirewise, so ease became a primary concern. Also it was kind of fun to have less input at that time, as they were fighting on their own so to speak. 

Now, though I don't think they any notion of making the "new" opfire filtering of winSPWW2 into something the AI can use, if they did so, there would be no comparison whatsoever between the two games opfire treatment, as it's clear the winSPWW2 new treatment is something of a dream quite frankly. The only thing missing is the ability to pick out a specific unit of the enemy and tell units on your own side to ignore it, but for most circumstances the filtering can be done to largely accomodate the same thing. They also have some saved opfire filtering routines, to where you can copy an entire reactions settings to all situations at a mere click for an entire platoon or individual unit, all without having to save the game and then edit it, and then return to the game; all at the touch of a button or two.

One of the things (yes, I am getting a bit wordy here) I used to hate about winSPWW2 (or all the SP versions but SPWAW) is that the AFV's used to always be without accounting for slope of the armor; just flat armor thickness. Now, they account for slope, but you don't just see how much it is sloped. For example, some tank on SPWAW might have 3 armor with 60 degree slope, therefore maybe taking up to a penetration of 5. In winSPWW2, they just give you the 5 armor setting. There's no need to account for slope when you already know how much the actual slope would take rounds to pierce. Over the years, I have played the two games a great deal, and I can tell you that there is really no difference in what was once a critical difference in the game concernign slope.         

phew

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 10
RE: Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Pa... - 3/16/2008 11:09:03 PM   
ravinhood


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ummmm wut did you say? hehehehe ;)

No really thanks for all that, but, I don't even play SP that way. See I like to give the AI a chance so I just control the leaders of the squads, give them directions and objectives and let the AI play out my side as well on what it attacks and with what. When I used to play everything I stomped the AI so badly it wasn't even fun to play. So, I more or less have to play command control only. Kinda like a turn based HTTR/COTA which I have always said that's the way those games should have been. It works for me, I have challenging games of SP, but, most of my PBEM has always been Combat Mission ones. But, I'm getting interested in playing SP PBEM and try something different for a change. I'll definitely be playing "Kharkov" PBEM when I get it, can hardly wait. Random Random Random it's my favorite way to play. I really loathe scenarios and canned missions and simulations anymore. I want to play in a battle that never happened and make history not recreate it. ;)

_____________________________

WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?



(in reply to Charles_22)
Post #: 11
RE: Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Pa... - 3/17/2008 1:40:10 AM   
Charles_22


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From: Dallas, Texas, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

ummmm wut did you say? hehehehe ;)

No really thanks for all that, but, I don't even play SP that way. See I like to give the AI a chance so I just control the leaders of the squads, give them directions and objectives and let the AI play out my side as well on what it attacks and with what. When I used to play everything I stomped the AI so badly it wasn't even fun to play. So, I more or less have to play command control only. Kinda like a turn based HTTR/COTA which I have always said that's the way those games should have been. It works for me, I have challenging games of SP, but, most of my PBEM has always been Combat Mission ones. But, I'm getting interested in playing SP PBEM and try something different for a change. I'll definitely be playing "Kharkov" PBEM when I get it, can hardly wait. Random Random Random it's my favorite way to play. I really loathe scenarios and canned missions and simulations anymore. I want to play in a battle that never happened and make history not recreate it. ;)

Yes if I wanted to get into editing the AI's side in the midst of a campaign, and surely the filtering of which I spoke may be worth such an effort, I have wondered if using those waypoint possibilties may prove helpful. In my mind anyway, the AI in winSPWW2 is improved, but it may be just due to my somewhat recent unfamiliarity with it. Oh, you also have an option where you can make the AI pick a tank heavier force than it normally would, but I'm sure that is part of the free game. As the game currently stands, even on the defensive, the AI will occasionally throw some 1 or 2 platoons into an offensive against you. I am really quite surprised sometimes of the things it will do, though it may often look as it usual self. If you shoot and scoot with artillery or tanks on the back of a hill, for example, it often will respond to that by shelling that area with artillery. I don't think it ever used to do that. Same way with popping smoke, and I just got this from one of those boys last night, that if you pop smoke somewhere, there is a chance the AI will respond with arty, as it figured that anything worth popping smoke for is worth bombarding with arty.


(in reply to ravinhood)
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RE: Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Pa... - 3/17/2008 1:20:51 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

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ravinhood, I'll make this simple for you. SPWAW is generally considered more shiny and functional than WinSPWW2. But WinSPWW2 has at least one major advantage: it is compatible with original Steel Panthers. It is possible to convert original SP scenarios (and maybe campaigns) to work with WinSPWW2. I still have SP scenario disks left, and those can be converted for WinSPWW2. Furthermore, when you buy WinSPWW2, it offers wide range of resolutions at least up to 1600x1200, not sure if there was more. It is possible get maps work in SPWAW too (after map has been converted to WinSPWW2), but all scenario data needs to be redone with SPWAW editors.

As for getting SPWAW up to date, first download newest full version that is available (I don't remember version number). Then download and install patch 8.4. Then download and install Enhanced DV or Enhanced DVRN. Go to http://www.spwaw.com and join Academy Combat League. Register to forum. Download, read and play tutorials, post results to appropriate forum as you pass tutorials. When you're done with tutorials, you'll have one final test: battle against one of the instructors. After that you can take part to ACL. Have fun!

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

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(in reply to Charles_22)
Post #: 13
RE: Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Pa... - 3/17/2008 8:17:00 PM   
ravinhood


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Lol Matti I don't feel like joining the service or having "intiation" antics to be able to play a PBEM game. So, no thank you. Back where I come from you just invite someone to play, they don't have to jump through hoops or play the piano with their noses to be able to play with us. :) They do have to bring some beer though byob. ;)
Sides I already got all the patching an updating for WinSPWW2 and so the only next step I have to do now is look for a worthy opponenent who isn't from the north. ;)

_____________________________

WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?



(in reply to Kuokkanen)
Post #: 14
RE: Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Pa... - 3/18/2008 12:40:45 AM   
Charles_22


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From: Dallas, Texas, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Lol Matti I don't feel like joining the service or having "intiation" antics to be able to play a PBEM game. So, no thank you. Back where I come from you just invite someone to play, they don't have to jump through hoops or play the piano with their noses to be able to play with us. :) They do have to bring some beer though byob. ;)
Sides I already got all the patching an updating for WinSPWW2 and so the only next step I have to do now is look for a worthy opponenent who isn't from the north. ;)

That sure sounded ludicrous, didn't it? I guess winSPWW2's PBEM is much simpler to get into?

(in reply to ravinhood)
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RE: Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Pa... - 3/18/2008 6:44:09 AM   
ravinhood


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Yup sure is you should try it sometime CHARLES EMMERSON WINCHESTER THE IIIrd. ;) CHUCK lol

_____________________________

WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?



(in reply to Charles_22)
Post #: 16
RE: Something I've Always Wanted to Know About Steel Pa... - 3/18/2008 10:48:46 PM   
Charles_22


Posts: 3993
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From: Dallas, Texas, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Yup sure is you should try it sometime CHARLES EMMERSON WINCHESTER THE IIIrd. ;) CHUCK lol


This is easily accessible enough should you want to look it up, but here's the opening post they made almost 2 years ago about V.1 for winSPWW2. I have the cd version and I do regularly play with a higher resolution than the free game, but although I would enjoy the 1600X1200 play better than what I am using, the type is way too small to be useful, and we all know the type is perhaps 30% of the game or more. When I reviewed the following post, one thing is quite clear about the cd version which will prove a major benefit, or at least it has with me, should you go into some extended play, and that is the sorting options for the encyclopedia. Words can't express how superior this is to the weird system that was before with any SP, though one can still select the old version and a number of other sort options. If I'm not mistaken, however, the game will not save how you sorted it from the last time you exited the game. There are a few other cd benefits, if one wishes to use them, such as a full Nationalist or Communist Chinese campaigns. Should prove somewhat interesting anyway to use a weaker nation to go after Japan. In my own limited play concerning the Nationalists, for some reason one of the battle ended up being against the Nationalists as well, so I decided to go with a campaign a bit more steady for the time being.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=423607&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 17
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