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RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02)

 
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RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/7/2008 8:00:05 PM   
NeverMan

 

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Did the bug of garrison factor disappearing from ceded provinces when access was terminated ever get fix? Is this in 1.03? I have 1.02k and it's still happening. I was ceded three provinces by Turkey, all of which had garrison factors in several cities and depots too (one of which I placed AFTER the war was already over). The all just disappeared when the temp access time was up. Just wondering.

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Post #: 301
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/8/2008 2:42:53 PM   
Marshall Ellis


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Neverman:

I have added a message in 1.03 because what looks to be happening is that the garrisons are being transfered out to other city locations and/or possible being added to other garrisons if space is available. The good news is that you should NOT be losing them.


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Post #: 302
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/8/2008 5:55:50 PM   
NeverMan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Neverman:

I have added a message in 1.03 because what looks to be happening is that the garrisons are being transfered out to other city locations and/or possible being added to other garrisons if space is available. The good news is that you should NOT be losing them.



That is good news, but not having them moved would be better. Just the fact that depots (supplying Corps) are removed and then I have to move the Corps or re-create the depot (costing MP money) and then take time to re-garrison the provinces I have already garrisoned. Can't wait for 1.03, the game is getting sharper.

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Post #: 303
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/9/2008 12:04:19 AM   
Marshall Ellis


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Neverman:

What would you propose we do with them when the temp access runs out?



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Post #: 304
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/9/2008 1:12:14 AM   
Jimmer

 

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Garrisons should be vaporized.

Corps should be allowed to continue movement, so long as:

1)  They are heading directly home, and
2)  They are moving at the maximum possible speed (without forced marches).

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Post #: 305
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/9/2008 1:22:16 AM   
NeverMan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Neverman:

What would you propose we do with them when the temp access runs out?




In my case, they should be left where they are. If you are ceded a province by a Sue For Peace why should your depots be destroyed and forces sent back home in those provinces that you NOW own, UNLESS of course, there is a rule I am missing.

If you have forces left in areas you don't control then by all means, send them home and destroy the depots.

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Post #: 306
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/9/2008 1:31:53 AM   
Jimmer

 

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I want to correct my statement: I didn't notice the "ceded province" part of the question.

So, I agree with NeverMan: Keep them. The problem is a bug or logic flaw, not a programming decision.

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Post #: 307
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/9/2008 1:18:10 PM   
Marshall Ellis


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Wait! I missed the ceded province portion as well.

Jimmer: The problem with the corps is that I could not really make him move in one direction or make him move at all. The auto-evac is basically me making him move.
Are you sure you would vaporize garrisons? You get a city size of 4-5 and that could be a lot of inf???



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Post #: 308
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/9/2008 9:37:08 PM   
Jimmer

 

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Actually, there are two problems:

1)  End of 3-months movement, and
2)  Bug where factors/corps are repatriated from a ceded province the current player owns

For the bug (# 2), send them to the person's home nation or something. But, fix the bug, too, so it no longer happens. People should be able to garrison their own property.

For the end of 3 free months worth of movement (#1), yes, vaporize them. If the owner couldn't pick them up in time, that's his problem. However, for this to work, he may have to move something IN to the territory (a corps to pick up the factors), so make sure that's allowed. Alternately, all the owner to place a corps with garrison factors as if it were his home nation (for the 3 months only). These could be very difficult to code.

So, before implementing "vaporize them" (for problem number 1, now), make sure all potential avenues properly exist to get them out.

NOTE: It is entirely possible that a person cannot move out in time with only three months. The original rules basically said you had to move them out by the most direct route. There was no time limit. For a war against Russia, for instance, France can easily require more than 3 months to get them home. If at war with GB, he may have to march them overland, even if they originally squeezed in from sea.

So, as a compromize, using "3 months, then repatriate randomly" is reasonable (I think this is the way you currently do it).

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Post #: 309
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/9/2008 10:42:54 PM   
NeverMan

 

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I don't agree with the vaporization and I'll tell you why:

WINTER MOVEMENT. Corps move at 1 space a turn in the winter. If the MP surrenders in the winter 3 months is not enough time. Think if you just took Moscow? You aren't going to get your Corps out in time, much less some factors scattered here and there on depots and in cities. Getting out of Russia starting at Moscow or St. Petes if you are Turkey or Austria is hard enough in 3 months in non-winter months without having to forage.

Personally, I think the temp access should be 6 months OR you should move them to their own country. 3 months and vaporization is not fair IMO.

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Post #: 310
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/9/2008 11:36:09 PM   
currerij

 

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There is a major bug in the 1.02k release. I am not sure exactly the root cause, but when a major power surrenders, the game then freezes during the Spanish build phase. This does not happen for every war, but when it does, it is consistant. Even if you go back to a previous turn, when the power unconditionally surrenders, it still occurs. Attached is zip file with last save I made. The game cannot get past the Turkish surrender.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 311
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/10/2008 6:37:53 PM   
Marshall Ellis


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currerij:

I have loaded this game and have seen the lock up!
I am looking into this and will advise...





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Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



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Post #: 312
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/11/2008 1:30:58 AM   
j-s

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

currerij:

I have loaded this game and have seen the lock up!
I am looking into this and will advise...






I have same situation here. Game freeze during spanish build phase.


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Post #: 313
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/11/2008 3:02:22 PM   
pzgndr

 

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quote:

Garrisons should be vaporized.


Vaporized may not be a good term. Could garrisons just become prisoners when temp access runs out? Then, because a state of war does not exist, they should automatically be released. Those factors could then become available the following turn.

(in reply to Monadman)
Post #: 314
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/11/2008 4:57:23 PM   
delatbabel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

I don't agree with the vaporization and I'll tell you why:

WINTER MOVEMENT. Corps move at 1 space a turn in the winter. If the MP surrenders in the winter 3 months is not enough time. Think if you just took Moscow? You aren't going to get your Corps out in time, much less some factors scattered here and there on depots and in cities. Getting out of Russia starting at Moscow or St. Petes if you are Turkey or Austria is hard enough in 3 months in non-winter months without having to forage.

Personally, I think the temp access should be 6 months OR you should move them to their own country. 3 months and vaporization is not fair IMO.


No, since they fixed up Domodedovo airport, getting out of Moscow is much easier than it used to be. Oh hang on, you mean in the early 19th Century! Doh!

Seriously though, the original EiA rules do in fact state that garrisons that are not picked up and/or moved out of the occupied nation within 3 months are eliminated. Vaporised being too strong a word I guess for the original writers of those rules.

However EiA didn't implement winter movement, so I'm not sure how they should tie together.


< Message edited by delatbabel -- 6/11/2008 4:58:28 PM >


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Post #: 315
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/11/2008 5:37:49 PM   
NeverMan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

I don't agree with the vaporization and I'll tell you why:

WINTER MOVEMENT. Corps move at 1 space a turn in the winter. If the MP surrenders in the winter 3 months is not enough time. Think if you just took Moscow? You aren't going to get your Corps out in time, much less some factors scattered here and there on depots and in cities. Getting out of Russia starting at Moscow or St. Petes if you are Turkey or Austria is hard enough in 3 months in non-winter months without having to forage.

Personally, I think the temp access should be 6 months OR you should move them to their own country. 3 months and vaporization is not fair IMO.



However EiA didn't implement winter movement, so I'm not sure how they should tie together.



EXACTLY MY POINT!!

Winter Movement is something that most games I am in are playing with. You simply CANNOT get from Moscow to AU/TU in 3 moves (1 move/turn in winter movement months). I'm just making this case because this kept happening to me in an solo game I was playing against the AI.

(in reply to delatbabel)
Post #: 316
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/11/2008 7:44:24 PM   
Jimmer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

quote:

Garrisons should be vaporized.


Vaporized may not be a good term. Could garrisons just become prisoners when temp access runs out? Then, because a state of war does not exist, they should automatically be released. Those factors could then become available the following turn.

That's an excellent idea, I suspect. I think that should remove some of the programming barriers to implementing the other ideas that have been presented.

Good thinking!

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At LAST! The greatest campaign board game of all time is finally available for the PC. Can my old heart stand the strain?

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Post #: 317
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/11/2008 7:49:10 PM   
Jimmer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

3 months and vaporization is not fair IMO.

I agree, and said so in my post. 3 months and gone is NOT the complete contents of that post. In order for that to work, 3 months has to go bye-bye, and be replaced by a system that allows the person to get the troops home. The original rules say that you have to move them directly towards your nation, and you had 6 months to do it. The game would have to have some set of processes by which the person could get them home.

My post did not address what that process would be, only that it needed to be there (and, it provided an example). But, Pzgndr posted an idea that WOULD work (3 months and then make them prisoners).

NOTE: The corps counter itself would also have to be considered a prisoner, though. Otherwise, one could lose cavalry or guard by not having a place to put them the next month. This could be alleviated by having them become prisoners at the beginning of an econ month only. Then, the player would have a chance to re-purchase the corps counter(s) for the following month, when the factors would be returning.

< Message edited by Jimmer -- 6/11/2008 7:52:39 PM >


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At LAST! The greatest campaign board game of all time is finally available for the PC. Can my old heart stand the strain?

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Post #: 318
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/11/2008 8:22:35 PM   
pzgndr

 

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I guess while I'm on a roll with ideas, how about for corps units they're automatically displaced toward their home country when temp access runs out after 3 months?  This gives the player a chance to manually move them, else they get moved for him which may or may not be to an ideal province.  That would keep unit counters intact and avoid having to deal with other programming issues?

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Post #: 319
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/12/2008 3:02:45 PM   
Marshall Ellis


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What about garrisons in provincial capitals at surrender?
Do they become prisoners (effectively going to the reinf pool)?



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Post #: 320
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/12/2008 3:32:34 PM   
delatbabel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

What about garrisons in provincial capitals at surrender?
Do they become prisoners (effectively going to the reinf pool)?




If you're going by EiA original rules, they stay in place - however since the provincial capital is no longer "enemy" occupied the original (or new) owning power gets the money/manpower from it as per normal.

EiA prevents a player garrisoning a national capital even during a provisional peace, and so garrisons in national capitals should go to the reinf pool.


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Post #: 321
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/12/2008 3:36:20 PM   
delatbabel


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Please note that in original EiA players have 3 months to *pick up* any garrison factors from the surrendering nation, and 6 months to move any corps out.  In that 3 months you can use the corps to pick up any garrison factors, those corps then have another 3 months to exit the nation.

Quite long enough to march even from Moscow to the Turkish border.  If you have Turkish regulars in St Petersburg or London however, you've got a problem (however not as large as the one that Russia or Englad was faced with when you marched there in the first place).

I'm reluctant to say to Matrix that they should introduce additional "chrome" into the game such as automatically moving corps or having garrison factors sprout wings and fly, that departs from what the original EiA game specified (yes I am an EiA purist).


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RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/12/2008 4:39:25 PM   
NeverMan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

Please note that in original EiA players have 3 months to *pick up* any garrison factors from the surrendering nation, and 6 months to move any corps out.  In that 3 months you can use the corps to pick up any garrison factors, those corps then have another 3 months to exit the nation.

Quite long enough to march even from Moscow to the Turkish border.  If you have Turkish regulars in St Petersburg or London however, you've got a problem (however not as large as the one that Russia or Englad was faced with when you marched there in the first place).

I'm reluctant to say to Matrix that they should introduce additional "chrome" into the game such as automatically moving corps or having garrison factors sprout wings and fly, that departs from what the original EiA game specified (yes I am an EiA purist).



Winter Movement was not part of the Original EiA. I am also an EiA purist, BUT Matrix saw fit to add the "EiH" rules into the game so they are here now and we have to deal with them.

I am all for giving factors 3 months and Corps 6 months. I think that even with Winter Movement, this should be ample time to remove any Corps from any country. After that, if you want to destroy the factors or make them prisoners then I'm ok either way.

The only thing I have a problem with is the 3 month rule for Corps.


< Message edited by NeverMan -- 6/12/2008 4:40:02 PM >

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RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/12/2008 4:49:53 PM   
Jimmer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

What about garrisons in provincial capitals at surrender?
Do they become prisoners (effectively going to the reinf pool)?



I presume you mean unceded provincial capitals.

I would say they should stay where they are. They can't actually impact the other person unless he has another war, and that city gets besieged. If that happens, the power at peace should have the factors immediately repatriated.

Otherwise, they should follow the same rules as anywhere else (non-capitals).

If they are ceded to the power who has the factors in there, then they should remain as normal, since he owns the property.

Finally, if the factors belong to power 1, power 2 is the one that gave up the property, and power 3 is the one who actually owns it, this should be treated as if powers 1 and 3 just got peace.

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Post #: 324
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/12/2008 9:35:18 PM   
Pans


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I´m playing the new version 1.02k and just discovered the following:

Turkey surrendered unconditional to Austria (chosen 3 Provinces, reparation and enforced peace). After this there is still Austrian garrision in Constantinople and Turkey Corps in Wallachia.
Is this a new update or a bug?

Pans




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RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/12/2008 10:41:46 PM   
NeverMan

 

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Was this after the temp access?

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Post #: 326
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/12/2008 11:05:21 PM   
Jimmer

 

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This looks to be correct, Pans. The Turkish corps and the Austrian garrison both have that "limited access" that comes at the end of war.

NOTE: The Austrian garrison is in Adrianople, not Constantinople. If it had been in the latter, I suspect it would have been repatriated.

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At LAST! The greatest campaign board game of all time is finally available for the PC. Can my old heart stand the strain?

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Post #: 327
RE: Reporting bugs (post v.1.02) - 6/13/2008 7:09:42 AM   
delatbabel


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Hi all,

Please stop using this thread for reporting bugs.

Please see this thread for more information:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1831790

Thanx,


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Post #: 328
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