Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again!

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/1/2008 6:50:31 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
Thought I'd spell check an email (I need all the proof reading I can get) and found that my Outlook 6 spell checker had changed itself to French! Thought I'd search deeper and found the following gem on the MS Outlook support site:

"SUMMARY
If you install the 2007 Microsoft Office system, you no longer have spell checking capabilities in some languages when you use Outlook Express 6.0.
MORE INFORMATION
When you upgrade an earlier version of Office to a 2007 Office system, the old spelling checker files are removed for the following languages: • English
• Spanish
• German
These files are replaced with newer versions that are included in the 2007 Office system. The new files are incompatible with Outlook Express.

There are a variety of third-party free spell-checking programs available on the Internet. You can learn about available programs by visiting the Microsoft Communities site. This site lets you obtain advice from other users and from Microsoft Most Valuable Professionals (MVPs). To access the Microsoft Communities site, visit the following Microsoft Web site..."

I mean... Hello out there! Did you kinda forget to tell us this on the Office 2007 box?! Oh my goodness The world it going to crap
Post #: 1
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/1/2008 7:52:37 AM   
panzers

 

Posts: 635
Joined: 5/19/2006
From: Detroit Mi, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

Thought I'd spell check an email (I need all the proof reading I can get) and found that my Outlook 6 spell checker had changed itself to French! Thought I'd search deeper and found the following gem on the MS Outlook support site:

"SUMMARY
If you install the 2007 Microsoft Office system, you no longer have spell checking capabilities in some languages when you use Outlook Express 6.0.
MORE INFORMATION
When you upgrade an earlier version of Office to a 2007 Office system, the old spelling checker files are removed for the following languages: • English
• Spanish
• German
These files are replaced with newer versions that are included in the 2007 Office system. The new files are incompatible with Outlook Express.

There are a variety of third-party free spell-checking programs available on the Internet. You can learn about available programs by visiting the Microsoft Communities site. This site lets you obtain advice from other users and from Microsoft Most Valuable Professionals (MVPs). To access the Microsoft Communities site, visit the following Microsoft Web site..."

I mean... Hello out there! Did you kinda forget to tell us this on the Office 2007 box?! Oh my goodness The world it going to crap

lmao. To be perfectly honest with you: I'm surprised they didn't leave the spanish in there. Talk about the world going to crap!

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 2
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/1/2008 3:12:28 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 36880
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
Wow, what a bizarre decision.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to panzers)
Post #: 3
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/1/2008 3:36:40 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41460
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
Hmmm, so MS are actually downgrading the usability of their product. It's like they don't give a crap about their consumers... Nah, couldn't be...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 4
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/1/2008 4:10:00 PM   
Zakhal


Posts: 2494
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyväskylä, Finland
Status: offline
They simply need to make more money for the stockholders. Open up your purse and cough up the dough or else..

_____________________________

"99.9% of all internet arguments are due to people not understanding someone else's point. The other 0.1% is arguing over made up statistics."- unknown poster
"Those who dont read history are destined to repeat it."– Edmund Burke

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 5
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/1/2008 4:36:03 PM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
The sinister part is...

Office 2007 Home Edition doesn't come with Outlook! You have to pay extra for it and buy the Standard/Small Business Edition - or change to Vista and use its replacement for Outlook Express called Windows Mail.

I'm sure we haven't heard the end of this.

(in reply to Zakhal)
Post #: 6
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/1/2008 6:00:20 PM   
Grell

 

Posts: 1064
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
That is just crazy. Microsmart strikes again!

Regards,

Grell

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 7
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/1/2008 6:20:44 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
Well, you know, English in 2007 is incompatible with English from just a few years ago.

Microsoft rules!




< Message edited by Marauders -- 3/1/2008 6:21:47 PM >

(in reply to Grell)
Post #: 8
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/1/2008 6:42:57 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41460
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
MS probably didn't even try to make English of '07 backward compatible with previous versions. That's just not nice...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 9
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/1/2008 7:50:51 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

The sinister part is...

Office 2007 Home Edition doesn't come with Outlook! You have to pay extra for it and buy the Standard/Small Business Edition - or change to Vista and use its replacement for Outlook Express called Windows Mail.

I'm sure we haven't heard the end of this.


Well, why would a normal home user need the full power of Outlook . The home OS comes with a mail client, you have a built in adress book too. What the Home Edition contains, makes absolute sense and is a straightforward package for the home user.

If you really need full powered event and calendar management for your home use then you also have to pay for it . Otherwise, use one of the many many free alternatives.

_____________________________


(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 10
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/1/2008 11:06:10 PM   
Peter Fisla


Posts: 2490
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline
And it gets better with Vista, check this out :)

http://apcmag.com/8344/has_vista_lost_all_credibility

(in reply to Marc von Martial)
Post #: 11
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/2/2008 5:14:12 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

Well, why would a normal home user need the full power of Outlook .


Because what we now do need is an Outlook that works. MS broke Outlook Express is telling us to; 1) buy Outlook 2007, 2) buy Vista, 3) search the net for a spell checker.

Had they warned me that Office 2007 would have broken my Outlook Express I'd never have bought it.

So no. They can give us an Outlook that works now please. The box said that Office 2007 was XP compatible.

(in reply to Marc von Martial)
Post #: 12
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/2/2008 6:03:27 AM   
wworld7


Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
Status: offline
Adam,

If possible, why not go back to your old version of Office and ask who ever sold you Office 2007 if you can return it (for a refund) because of lost functionality. A good vender will want to keep your business and may agree.





_____________________________

Flipper

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 13
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/2/2008 7:27:07 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

Adam,

If possible, why not go back to your old version of Office and ask who ever sold you Office 2007 if you can return it (for a refund) because of lost functionality. A good vender will want to keep your business and may agree.


Excellent question and you're on my wave length but I'm actually going to try Microsoft first and see what they have to say.

(in reply to wworld7)
Post #: 14
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/2/2008 12:03:20 PM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline
I am no apologist for Microsoft, but this is nothing. Just compose in Word, do whatever editing you desire, then paste your text into your message.

And don't rely on spell checkers. The only things on earth more stupider than a spell checker are grammar checkers and Terminus.

(waiting...)

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 15
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/2/2008 1:57:05 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41460
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
If you're waiting for me to explode or start fixing your severely handicapped grammar (which doesn't need fixing so much as it needs to be euthanized), you'll be waiting a lot longer, Pasty...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 16
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/3/2008 2:04:41 AM   
ORANGE


Posts: 198
Joined: 12/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

I am no apologist for Microsoft, but this is nothing. Just compose in Word, do whatever editing you desire, then paste your text into your message.

And don't rely on spell checkers. The only things on earth more stupider than a spell checker are grammar checkers and Terminus.

(waiting...)

quote:

ook! You have to pay extra for it and buy the Standard/Small Business Edition - or change to Vista and use its replacement for Outlook Express called Windows Mail.

I'm sure we haven't heard the end of this.

HA! The Outlook client uses Word (or maybe any program of your choice?) as its email editor.

I am surprised people are using Outlook. Why not use gmail or even google apps with your own domain?

_____________________________


(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 17
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/3/2008 5:36:23 AM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline
This is what happens when microsoft is continually sued for not playing fair with other software vendors. Some software vendor someplace decided it wasn't fair that Microsoft included a fully functional spell checker in their software because it meant that vendor had no reason for people to buy theirs. So they sued, and someone in government said.. oh yeah.. that's not fair. So microsoft has had to pull 'standard' functionality out to allow other venders to sell add-ons to replace it. So here's a case where everyone expects the OS to do the job, but it can't because it wouldn't be fair if it did.

It's funny that I keep hearing about how wonderful Mac is because of all this built in functionality and you don't need to buy other software. Microsoft could do that too..only they're not allowed to. But Apple is for some reason...

< Message edited by David Winter -- 3/3/2008 5:37:43 AM >

(in reply to ORANGE)
Post #: 18
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/3/2008 5:38:45 AM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Winter

This is what happens when microsoft is continually sued for not playing fair with other software vendors. Some software vendor someplace decided it wasn't fair that Microsoft included a fully functional spell checker in their software because it meant that vendor had no reason for people to buy theirs. So they sued, and someone in government said.. oh yeah.. that's not fair. So microsoft has had to pull 'standard' functionality out to allow other venders to sell add-ons to replace it. So here's a case where everyone expects the OS to do the job, but it can't because it wouldn't be fair if it did.

It's funny that I keep hearing about how wonderful Mac is because of all this built in functionality and you don't need to buy other software. Microsoft could do that too..only they're not allowed to. But Apple is for some reason...


Your my new hero David. Well said.

_____________________________


(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 19
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/3/2008 6:59:02 AM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

This is what happens when microsoft is continually sued for not playing fair with other software vendors. Some software vendor someplace decided it wasn't fair that Microsoft included a fully functional spell checker in their software because it meant that vendor had no reason for people to buy theirs. So they sued, and someone in government said.. oh yeah.. that's not fair. So microsoft has had to pull 'standard' functionality out to allow other venders to sell add-ons to replace it. So here's a case where everyone expects the OS to do the job, but it can't because it wouldn't be fair if it did.


Is this what happened?  Please direct us to the court cases involved.

Microsoft is sued because they use the monopoly power granted by market share to illegally bundle software, cripple competitor's software, and extort fees to get the updates so that other software will work with the OS.

Microsoft still provides the spell checker with Office 2007, it just messed up older versions of Outlook Express.  Microsoft often forces incompatability with its older software to help push upgrades.  As a developer, you know they do this with .dll files and other software code as well as with licensing agreements.



(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 20
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/3/2008 8:08:39 AM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline
quote:

Please direct us to the court cases involved.


Oh please... Microsoft is sued for all sorts of reasons. 99% of those cases you personally have never heard about. Having worked for the company (even if only for a short time), you'd be stunned at what they have to take into account for legal reasons. All major corporations are subject to these ridiculous problems. Work for some of these companies as long as I have, and you'll see a lot of bizarre things done to placate law makers.

You know why their firewall only stops incoming traffic and not outgoing traffic?? Because they are forced by law to ensure there's a reason for other vendors to sell firewalls. How do I know this? Because it's the part that isn't mentioned in the news paper, but it's the part mentioned in the backrooms at the Developers Conferences by people that actually work in the industry. I'd estimate 95% (or more) of what goes on in the software industry happens behind closed doors or between two lawyers and well out of earshot of any reporter.

quote:

Microsoft is sued because they use the monopoly power granted by market share to illegally bundle software, cripple competitor's software, and extort fees to get the updates so that other software will work with the OS.


They don't cripple anyone's software. I have been using microsoft products since the 1980's. I have yet to see a single piece of software that wouldn't work 100% as the developer intended because microsoft has some "hidden code some place that turns off features". What they do do, is make 3rd party software redundant. They make it redundant because nobody needs to go out and buy a spell checking package because it's already installed. Nobody needs to go out and buy a web browser because it's already installed. Nobody needs to go out and buy an email client because it's already installed. Nobody needs to buy a media player because it's already installed. Nobody needs to buy a DVD player because it's already installed. Nobody needs to buy a Bluetooth stack because it's already installed. Apple does exactly the same thing only more so. Except what Microsoft calls Free Service Packs, Apple calls $200 updates.

What illegal bundles? Their web browser? It's their operating system, it's there web browser. Anyone that thinks they shouldn't be allowed to include it is fooling themselves. What browser is on Macs??? Oh..that's right.. only Safari. Mac's don't ship with IE. And just like Windows, you can install any browser you wish that works on the OS. No one is forcing anyone to use the preinstalled software. Every windows customer in the world is free to install whatever media player, or browser, or email client, they like... but like I said, other vender software has been made redundant and they don't like it.. well tough noogies for those guys..

I know you don't like microsoft. I think you're reasons are unfounded. You simply don't like to have to pay for new software. I know you don't like the fact you have to "register software via the internet"..well.. that's how it works now. You have other options if you don't like microsoft. I hear Ubuntu is not bad.

I'll put it plainly. If it were not for microsoft the computing world would not exist. Simple. Like it or not, Microsoft standardized operating systems. Everyone on earth knows that clicking the little floppy disk on the tool bar means 'save document'. If it weren't for them, we'd likely all have to be draging our disks to the trash-bin to eject them or other ubsurd nonsense like that. Or we'd have to be sure we're installing the right version of software x that matches whatever one of the 100 different kernels of the same OS we happen to be using.

From a developer standpoint they have a heavily standardized set of tools and suites for developers to work with. That's the kind of standardization microsoft brought to the masses. Without it, you'd have 500 different operating systems out there, no standards, and no productivity. Eventually someone would probably bubble up to the top but then you'd be complaining about Neotronic Software, instead of Microsoft.

Microsoft has done some things that tick me off as well... their policies added an additional 5 months to the release of Maximum-Football 2.0 because I had to completely rip out my graphics engine and replace it with a new one. Why? Because they made the existing core OS files obsolete. A bugger short term, but in the long run, it worked out for the best. 

quote:

Microsoft still provides the spell checker with Office 2007, it just messed up older versions of Outlook Express. Microsoft often forces incompatability with its older software to help push upgrades.


Please name another software company (that makes money) that doesn't do this. Does Apple still support OS9?? nope.. all that software is now dead. Of course microsoft pushes people to new versions. Of course they discontinue support of old products when they release new ones. It's how the software world works. Unlike a vacume cleaner or a car that breaks down mechanically to force a new purchase, software would always "just work". It has no moving parts to break. And because there's really no other way to get more money out of a customer, you have to force your old software to be obsolete, by replacing it with versions of that software that does more & new things. It's how all software companies stay in business.

Outlook Express was released with Internet Explorer 4.0 for Windows95. that was13 years ago!!! It's an obsolete client for an obsolete operating system. Why should microsoft keep supporting it? Why shouldn't they be allowed to start pushing people towards their new version. All software companies do this. It's how companies make money.

Microsoft went out if it's way at the time to tell people it was a simple email client for basic home use. However people used it like Outlook with databases of hundreds of MBs over what it was designed to do. Then people complained about "crappy microsoft software".. when in fact, they were told it wasn't supposed to be used they way they're using it.

It boils down to this. If it were not for microsoft, 99% of the games available on this website would likly not exist.


< Message edited by David Winter -- 3/3/2008 9:08:38 AM >

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 21
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/3/2008 9:11:51 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

If you're waiting for me to explode or start fixing your severely handicapped grammar (which doesn't need fixing so much as it needs to be euthanized), you'll be waiting a lot longer, Pasty...

hey, my grammar ain't severe and she ain't handicapped, just old.

What - I can't mine any fools' gold out of "more stupider than..."? You guys are just no fun anymorer.

Anyway. If you can't export text to a place where you can edit it (considering that, apparently, most of you are semi-literate at best and have to rely on those odd cripples known as "spell checkers" in order to communicate), I suggest you go back to the 20th century and buy yerself an IBM Selectric typewriter (you know - so that you can use up all that whiteout you've been hoarding in your desk drawers).

Hee hee. Skazhitye, pozhalista.

< Message edited by pasternakski -- 3/3/2008 9:12:23 AM >


_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 22
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/3/2008 9:12:43 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

Microsoft still provides the spell checker with Office 2007, it just messed up older versions of Outlook Express.


That's it in a nutshell.

Together with the box claim "System Requirements.... Microsoft XP". Clearly misleading.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 23
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/3/2008 9:19:06 AM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

Microsoft still provides the spell checker with Office 2007, it just messed up older versions of Outlook Express.


That's it in a nutshell.

Together with the box claim "System Requirements.... Microsoft XP". Clearly misleading.



Err. what? How is not listing Outlook Express as a system requirement, when it isn't one, misleading? Windows XP is an operating system, not an email client. Its claim that it's compatible with the operating system is 100% correct.

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 24
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/3/2008 9:27:40 AM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline
And BTW.. a minutes worth of google and yes, you can use spell checking with Office2k and Outlook Express in English.

http://www.outlook-tips.net/archives/2006/20061228.htm

You just need to install the older files again, and Office2k7 allows you to do this pretty easily.

(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 25
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/3/2008 9:40:06 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41460
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
So, what position do you hold at Micro$oft, exactly?

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 26
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/3/2008 9:50:49 AM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

So, what position do you hold at Micro$oft, exactly?



I haven't worked at microsoft in several years. When I was there I was a Development Director (aka group manager) of a small team working on banking software (automated teller stuff...). It was one of many teams working on the same project and it was a contract position. Once the software was done, I moved on to other things.

< Message edited by David Winter -- 3/3/2008 9:54:49 AM >

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 27
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/3/2008 7:26:03 PM   
ORANGE


Posts: 198
Joined: 12/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

So, what position do you hold at Micro$oft, exactly?

Heh! Reading is a trick only evil people who work at an evil corporation would employ.

< Message edited by ORANGE -- 3/3/2008 7:27:16 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 28
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/3/2008 9:30:19 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

Please direct us to the court cases involved.


Oh please... Microsoft is sued for all sorts of reasons. 99% of those cases you personally have never heard about.


Starting off with the condecention doesn't help your case any, so please refrain from using comments like "Oh please" in the public forum.

I am sure Microsoft get sued for many things, but you stated that the reason the Outlook Express spell checker didn't work was because Microsoft was sued. You have shown no specific evidence for this. The application of the general to the specific without evidence is a fallacy of logic.

quote:

You know why their firewall only stops incoming traffic and not outgoing traffic?? Because they are forced by law to ensure there's a reason for other vendors to sell firewalls. How do I know this? Because it's the part that isn't mentioned in the news paper, but it's the part mentioned in the backrooms at the Developers Conferences by people that actually work in the industry. I'd estimate 95% (or more) of what goes on in the software industry happens behind closed doors or between two lawyers and well out of earshot of any reporter.


Are we talking about firewalls or spell checkers?

There is still a functional spell checker in Office 2007; it just breaks their old stuff.

quote:

quote:

Microsoft is sued because they use the monopoly power granted by market share to illegally bundle software, cripple competitor's software, and extort fees to get the updates so that other software will work with the OS.


They don't cripple anyone's software.


Microsoft has long crippled competitors' software. This is well know and documented in several court cases.

Did you read why Microsoft was being fined by the EU? Microsoft was denying companies access to updates by using large fees as an impediment. In the past, they just didn't allow access at all.

Do you recall the Caldera vs Microsoft case (2000) or the Novell vs Microsoft case (2004)?

quote:

I have been using microsoft products since the 1980's. I have yet to see a single piece of software that wouldn't work 100% as the developer intended because microsoft has some "hidden code some place that turns off features". What they do do, is make 3rd party software redundant. They make it redundant because nobody needs to go out and buy a spell checking package because it's already installed. Nobody needs to go out and buy a web browser because it's already installed. Nobody needs to go out and buy an email client because it's already installed. Nobody needs to buy a media player because it's already installed. Nobody needs to buy a DVD player because it's already installed. Nobody needs to buy a Bluetooth stack because it's already installed.


Yes, that is called bundling, and it is illegal. You have just made my case.

quote:

What illegal bundles? Their web browser? It's their operating system, it's there web browser. Anyone that thinks they shouldn't be allowed to include it is fooling themselves.


There is what you believe to be true, and there is the law. The law states that bundling is illegal.

Microsoft also forced computer manufacturing companies to purchase other Microsoft products (Word, Office, Works, ...) with Windows. They tried to get around this by saying that the manufacturers didn't actually have to install this software, but how many companies are going to pay for the stuff and not put it on their machines - especially since the other companies were going to do it because they were forced to purchase bundled software as well.

This is old news and well documented. Your case loses credibility if you ignore the court rulings in the two major DOJ cases against Microsoft regarding these issues.

quote:

Apple does exactly the same thing only more so. What browser is on Macs??? Oh..that's right.. only Safari. Mac's don't ship with IE.


Apple can do as they please because the OS is for their own hardware just as Microsoft has its own OS for the XBox 360.

On a side note, one of the reasons that Microsoft wanted to get into the gaming industry with the XBOX was because they wanted it to become a set-top box that would do much more than play games. This was an area they had looked into since purchasing WebTV.

quote:

I know you don't like microsoft. I think you're reasons are unfounded. You simply don't like to have to pay for new software. I know you don't like the fact you have to "register software via the internet"..well.. that's how it works now.


If you want to bring up items from the private forums, I would have to ask if it is alright for me to post items you have posted to the private forums that prove my case.

quote:

I know you don't like microsoft. I think you're reasons are unfounded. You simply don't like to have to pay for new software.


Oh really? I literally have a wall of software in my home. Did you think I stole all of those products or received them as gifts?

Do you think the list of software that I posted to the private forum was not paid for in some way?

I don't mind paying for software. I just don't like having to be forced to pay for software I don't need or want and having to pay twice as much for it because a corporation is using its market share to control the price. I also am generally against corporations that consistantly use unethical and illegal practices.

quote:

I know you don't like the fact you have to "register software via the internet"..well.. that's how it works now.


I don't think you want to take that issue out of the private forum, as you will not like the outcome.

What I will say is that I do not like to have my children's computer linked to the Internet, and I do not like any software that forces the connection for a software title to be updated. I also do not like software that will break without the latest Direct X update from Microsoft. There has to be a spot where the developer says, "This is what we will require, and we will provide it," and goes on from there.

I also don't need an OS that runs my games slower, is full of bloatware, and actually has spyware built into it.

quote:

You have other options if you don't like microsoft. I hear Ubuntu is not bad.


I agree. It is great for my HTPC, but I can't really run games on it. There is a defacto standard.

quote:

I'll put it plainly. If it were not for microsoft the computing world would not exist. Simple. Like it or not, Microsoft standardized operating systems.


You do know that Bill Gates purchased DOS after he made the deal with IBM to use it on their computers. I suspect that you may know that Caldera's DR-DOS was as good if not better than MS-DOS, but Microsoft crippled it by adding code to make sure it didn't work with Windows 3.1.

Perhaps you never heard of Xerox PARC, which Apple copied for the LISA (which became the Macintosh) or the Amiga, or OS/2 Warp, or GEOS, or other software that could easily have been as popular as Windows.

The computing world did need a standard for an OS. They did not need a corporation taking advantage of the market share granted by that OS to do illegal activities, overburden competitors, and stifle innovation.

quote:

Everyone on earth knows that clicking the little floppy disk on the tool bar means 'save document'. If it weren't for them, we'd likely all have to be draging our disks to the trash-bin to eject them or other ubsurd nonsense like that.


These were standardized by the Macintosh and Commodore Amiga and were based on the Xerox PARC GUI. The courts have ruled that Xerox PARC could not patent the look and feel of the GUI, so Steve Jobs was allowed to use it. This also allowed Microsoft to use it.

quote:

Or we'd have to be sure we're installing the right version of software x that matches whatever one of the 100 different kernels of the same OS we happen to be using.


That doesn't happen now? Are software developers allowed to make their games backward compatable with Windows 98se any more? I am not asking if they would want to; I am asking if they are allowed to by the letter of the Microsoft licensing agreements.

Also, doesn't Microsoft have update after update? Don't graphics card makers have to respond by creating driver update after driver update? If there was such a great standard, how come developers ask customers to make sure the OS and graphics card drivers are up to date?

quote:

From a developer standpoint they have a heavily standardized set of tools and suites for developers to work with. That's the kind of standardization microsoft brought to the masses. Without it, you'd have 500 different operating systems out there, no standards, and no productivity.


As I have stated above, I have no problem with a standard OS as long as that standard is not used to force defacto standards in other areas. Again, this is a matter of both ethics and law.

quote:

quote:

Microsoft still provides the spell checker with Office 2007, it just messed up older versions of Outlook Express. Microsoft often forces incompatability with its older software to help push upgrades.


Please name another software company (that makes money) that doesn't do this. Does Apple still support OS9?? nope.. all that software is now dead. Of course microsoft pushes people to new versions. Of course they discontinue support of old products when they release new ones. It's how the software world works.


This is a spell checker we are discussing. How much upgraded could it be?

quote:

Outlook Express was released with Internet Explorer 4.0 for Windows95. that was13 years ago!!! It's an obsolete client for an obsolete operating system. Why should microsoft keep supporting it? Why shouldn't they be allowed to start pushing people towards their new version. All software companies do this. It's how companies make money.


Windows was released with Windows 3.1. What does the original release date have to do with it?

Again, we are talking about a spell checker. Are there really that many more English words in 2007 that would force a change?

quote:

quote:

Microsoft went out if it's way at the time to tell people it was a simple email client for basic home use. However people used it like Outlook with databases of hundreds of MBs over what it was designed to do. Then people complained about "crappy microsoft software".. when in fact, they were told it wasn't supposed to be used they way they're using it.


quote:

It boils down to this. If it were not for microsoft, 99% of the games available on this website would likly not exist.


That is an invalid argument as it ignores the market dynamic. Without Microsoft, these games would likely be running on GEOS or OS/2 Warp with the OpenGL 3D graphics API.



< Message edited by Marauders -- 3/3/2008 9:41:48 PM >

(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 29
RE: Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! - 3/3/2008 10:18:25 PM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline
First, it would be best if you stopped telling people how to conduct themselves on general public forums. There is absolutely nothing wrong with my post or how it was presented. It's not your place to "teach" adults how to conduct themselves. I'm not one of your kids. I don't need to be given lessons.

Overall, I didn't realize it was possible to miss the point that badly.

quote:

The application of the general to the specific without evidence is a fallacy of logic.


I don't need to provide you links to court cases that never made it into a court room. I've witnessed examples of this sorts of decisions made due to ludicrous laws first hand. I suppose as witnesses are considered "evidence"..then I suppose there's your evidence.

It doesn't matter if the original topic about a spell checker specifically. The argument was targeted towards this general attitude that Microsoft some evil empire needing the rebel alliance to bring it down. I brought up another example to emphasise my point. I'm allowed to do that.

Most customers do not care if microsoft "bundles" software with the OS. What do you think Apples biggest marketing strategy is? Heck they had a TV commercial that called out the fact that everything you need it "bundled" with the OS. I don't care if they only sell it on their hardware. Consumers don't care. They want an OS that does everything they need without buying additional stuff. Microsoft, due to absurd laws ... yes.. they're absurd laws.. is no longer allowed to give the consumer what they are asking for. Microsoft is not doing anything unethical. They're selling their products to their customers on thier OS. Customers are allowed to buy it or not. They're allowed to buy Apple if they like. Customers however are choosing to buy microsoft products EXPECTING to have these tools bundled.

quote:

Windows was released with Windows 3.1. What does the original release date have to do with it?


Actually, Windows was released with Windows 1.0 in 1985. 3.1 didn't come out until 92(ish). As my point was missed, I'll explain it. Some minor updates aside, Outlook Express is 13 years old. In software terms, that's prehistoric. My goodness, people generally don't own cars 13 years. I asked the question but didn't get an answer. Why should microsoft, or any company for that matter, support software that is obsolete and has been replaced by newer products? Why should they support something that was free 13 years ago? Yes.. Outlook express was free to download and use. Microsoft is under no obligation to ensure backwards compatibility with any free software. I'm surprised it lasted this long. That said, as I pointed out, making OE work with Office2K is possible, you just have to reinstall the older profiles.

quote:

This is a spell checker we are discussing. How much upgraded could it be?


The original spell checker was designed for Office 95 which was built around COM. OE can use it because they were built off the same technologies. Office2k7 (and it's spell checker) is built on .Net technologies. They're as different as night and day.

quote:

Again, we are talking about a spell checker. Are there really that many more English words in 2007 that would force a change?


Do you really believe this has anything to do with additional words? Do you not think that maybe the fact microsoft changed the database schema to make it faster, more effective, more stable, and have more searching abilities, has more to do with the lack of backwards compatiblity?

quote:

That is an invalid argument as it ignores the market dynamic. Without Microsoft, these games would likely be running on GEOS or OS/2 Warp with the OpenGL 3D graphics API.


This is not an invalid argument. If anything, coming from someone that actually develops software for a living, it's validity is strengthened. Non developers telling people that actually do the job for a living what works and what doesn't, really doesn't hold much water. NONE of those technologies you have mentioned are as mature as Windows and DirectX. Two of them are long dead because nobody wanted them. Would they have survived with out windows? Would they have matured without windows? Perhaps, but the general consensus when they originally came out was that they were extremely difficult to develop for when compared to Windows. And that hinders creation of software to run on the OS. So nobody was going to create the "killer app" needed to push the OS over the edge.



< Message edited by David Winter -- 3/3/2008 10:26:44 PM >

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Outlook Express 6 - MS Does it Again! Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.336