Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: New Stuff

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Discontinued Games] >> Command Ops Series >> RE: New Stuff Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: New Stuff - 3/14/2008 2:08:44 AM   
pamak1970

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 3/1/2004
Status: offline
I noticed in one of the screens a button called "intelligence display mode".
Can somebody explain what is this?
Is it relative with friendly fog of war?

I have to say that i always thought that the introduction of friendly fog of war gives a total different feeling in the game and unfortunately it is something that we do not see it often.
I remember once i asked if it is possible to simulate the time lag for receiving accurate intelligence about BOTH friendly and enemy units.
For example most of the times the friendly command does not know the exact level of friendly casualties ,until after the end of the battle.Somethimes they do not even know the true location of friendly units.
During the battle the level of information is very basic to the point of describing casualties or enemy resistance as heavy or light, or reporting contact with enemy units , without giving farther information.
Sometimes the higher command does not have knowledge of the fact that small units have become actually ineffective or eliminated.
I recall reading a book about Yom kipur war where communication equipment was much better than the one used during wwii.
The brigade commander came in the battalion net asking questions about the situation during a fight in golan heights.
The battalion commander answered " general, if you continue asking questions ,soon there will be no one left to answer them".
Small unit leaders have many things to do which prohibit them from giving accurate reports about BOTH friendly and enemy units.

So returning to the game, i was thinking if it was possible to have the game engine tracking and resolving events according to the real situation in the underground ,while presenting to the player an "alternative situation" which will not provide real time information ,nor will be accurate or detailed for both friendly and enemy units.

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 31
RE: New Stuff - 3/14/2008 3:07:41 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
pamak1970,

Good point.

First off, the Intel Display Mode button that you saw is in the ScenMaker application. It is used to visualise the enemy intel reports that have been created by the scenario designer. Refer to the SM Manual for more details.

As to friendly intel, well yes it would make for a more realistic simulation. However, it would require a separate database of friendlies and enemies for each unit in the game to be comprehensively accurate. This would blow out RAM requirements and place an incredible burdon on the processor that the game would grind to a snails pace with current hardware.

At present we maintain separate databases for each side. In the future I would like to support multiuple commands per side and then have separate databases for each command. Again not perfect but a step in the right direction.

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to pamak1970)
Post #: 32
RE: New Stuff - 3/14/2008 4:19:03 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4380
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pamak1970

....most of the times the friendly command does not know the exact level of friendly casualties ,until after the end of the battle.Somethimes they do not even know the true location of friendly units.




This is not actually the case. if you have 3 battallions out there on the right wing and you, the over all comander, don't know their current state, the Brigade commander is there on the spot and he knows their state.

As wargamers we would probably make the same decision as the local commander - and then click on the units and give commands.

-







(in reply to pamak1970)
Post #: 33
RE: New Stuff - 3/14/2008 8:42:45 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
Another new feature added today is the ability to change the map patterns when the grund condition changes. By way of example, I have modified the Hofen Ho Down scenario. I changed the historical weather pattern so there was snow on Day 1 and Normal on Day 2. I duplicated the original map patterns and made a quick hack for the new Snow version. ( All I have done is change the lightness of the contour layers - we will have something better for the final ).

Below is a screen dump from late on Day 1 with a snow pattern.




_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 34
RE: New Stuff - 3/14/2008 8:43:37 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
At midnight the second day's historical weather comes into force and the ground condition reverts back to normal. Voila!




_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 35
RE: New Stuff - 3/14/2008 2:55:29 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 1986
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline
Cool!
Do those ground conditions have an impact on the game(movement etc.)?

_____________________________


(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 36
RE: New Stuff - 3/14/2008 3:00:47 PM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
Sure do.

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to BigDuke66)
Post #: 37
RE: New Stuff - 3/14/2008 10:33:42 PM   
pamak1970

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 3/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

quote:

ORIGINAL: pamak1970

....most of the times the friendly command does not know the exact level of friendly casualties ,until after the end of the battle.Somethimes they do not even know the true location of friendly units.




This is not actually the case. if you have 3 battallions out there on the right wing and you, the over all comander, don't know their current state, the Brigade commander is there on the spot and he knows their state.

As wargamers we would probably make the same decision as the local commander - and then click on the units and give commands.

-










I will disagree.Even battallion commanders,although they will have a better picture of the current situation ,they will still not know the actual casualties of their companies until after the battle .

In addition my comment is relative with the attitude i see of leading the game to a more realistic command simulation at higher level.
Notice that small units become more independent, with the ability to initiate on their own various actions.
What i love in this game engine is that it was focused from the start in avoiding micromanagement , letting the player assume the higher command. As time passes the engine becomes more efficient in giving you the feeling of actually be a brigade or division commander instead of a god type player where one minute you act as a general and the next one as a major.




(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 38
RE: New Stuff - 3/18/2008 8:39:05 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
Task Coordination

I am currently polishing off the user interface controls that allow a player to set the timings for an order - ie start, end, HHour and Duration. You can set the start and end for all task types. In addition, for attacks you can set the HHour which determines the start of the assault. And for Bombardments you can set a Duration that determines how long the guns will fire for.

With these controls you can now coordinate your orders. Here is an example taken from the Greyhound Dash scenario. I'm playing the Germans and I am going to coordinate a series of attack and bombardment tasks to clear the village of Samree. The time now is 09:00.

First, I give attack orders to my two infantry Bns. For each I leave the start and end on "Auto" but I set the HHour to 11:30.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to pamak1970)
Post #: 39
RE: New Stuff - 3/18/2008 8:40:16 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
Here's the 2nd Mot Inf Bn.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 40
RE: New Stuff - 3/18/2008 8:43:33 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
Now for my third battalion, the 1st Pz Bn, I want them to attack from the clear are east of the village. They are going to be exposed and vulnerable here, so I don't want them hanging about there too long. So I order them to start in half an hours time and give them the same HHour as the other two Bns.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 41
RE: New Stuff - 3/18/2008 8:45:49 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
Finally, I want to coordinate my bombardment such that it starts 15 minutes prior to HHour and continues for another 10 minutes after it - hopefully lifting just before my assault infantry get close to the objective. Well that's the intent at least.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 42
RE: New Stuff - 3/18/2008 9:00:19 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
So let's see how it pans out.

Once I start running the game the two inf Bns start their reorgs while the 1st Pz Bn and 1st Bty wait.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 43
RE: New Stuff - 3/18/2008 9:01:22 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
Half an hour later 1st Pz Bn duly obeys orders and starts the process of moving out.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 44
RE: New Stuff - 3/18/2008 9:07:24 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
At 11:15 the 1st Bty commences its bombardment.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 45
RE: New Stuff - 3/18/2008 9:11:15 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
At 11:30 the assaults get underway. Note that the arty bombardment is continuing as planned.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 46
RE: New Stuff - 3/18/2008 9:15:20 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
At 11:40 the bombardment stops. Note the lead infantry are pretty close to the objective and the enemy here is actually retreating.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 47
RE: New Stuff - 3/18/2008 9:18:33 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
In hindsight I could have brought forward the HHour by twenty minutes as the 1st Pz Bn were formed up and ready to assault a bit earlier than I thought. But with a bit more practice I'm sure I can get it down pat.

Footnote - Actually in a replay the 1st Pz Bn got pounded by enemy arty and were delayed. In the end they commenced their assault from a position south of the FUP at the designated HHour. So the lesson there is you need to allow a little leeway.

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 48
RE: New Stuff - 3/18/2008 10:08:50 AM   
Plodder


Posts: 998
Joined: 7/28/2003
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
Awesome stuff! One comment confused me however:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Now for my third battalion, the 1st Pz Bn, I want them to attack from the clear are east of the village. They are going to be exposed and vulnerable here, so I don't want them hanging about there too long. So I order them to start in half an hours time and give them the same HHour as the other two Bns.


Did you mean they're exposed at their current position or the one they're going to be attacking from?


_____________________________

Gen. Montgomery: "Your men don't salute much."
Gen. Freyberg: "Well, if you wave at them they'll usually wave back."

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 49
RE: New Stuff - 3/18/2008 10:54:42 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
The one they are going to be attacking from. I wanted to minimise their time in the open under enemy observation and fire.

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to Plodder)
Post #: 50
RE: New Stuff - 3/18/2008 12:32:44 PM   
Txema

 

Posts: 233
Joined: 5/9/2003
From: Basque Country
Status: offline
Arjuna,

This new feature looks superb. I can't wait to use it !!!


Txema

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 51
RE: New Stuff - 3/18/2008 4:20:11 PM   
Javakamp


Posts: 172
Joined: 2/17/2004
From: Lakeland, FL.
Status: offline
Very nice feature. Thanks for the hard work.

(in reply to Txema)
Post #: 52
RE: New Stuff - 3/18/2008 6:16:05 PM   
FredSanford3

 

Posts: 567
Joined: 6/23/2007
Status: offline
One question:  Is the 'end time' or 'duration' moot if you run your troops into the automatic 'Friendly Fire Preventor' zone during the assault?  This would be a gamey approach, IMO, or an argument to do away with that feature - or change it to a "Danger Close" warning with option ignore the warning.  Which could also result in some gamey tactics as well.  hmm...

(in reply to Javakamp)
Post #: 53
RE: New Stuff - 3/19/2008 3:26:00 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
FN,

I take it you are referring to the fact that bombardments are curtailed whenever friendlies are in the way. If so, rest assured that this will continue to be the case regardless of the timings.

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to FredSanford3)
Post #: 54
RE: New Stuff - 3/19/2008 4:47:18 AM   
HercMighty


Posts: 407
Joined: 10/31/2003
From: Minnesota, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

FN,

I take it you are referring to the fact that bombardments are curtailed whenever friendlies are in the way. If so, rest assured that this will continue to be the case regardless of the timings.


Why?

So as it stands now really you don't have to worry about an end time for bombardments. Just do a start time and when the attack begins and friendlies move into position the bombardment will stop and your good to go.

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 55
RE: New Stuff - 3/19/2008 11:58:46 AM   
RayWolfe

 

Posts: 1553
Joined: 2/5/2003
From: Kent in the UK
Status: offline
A difficult call.
What would have happened IRL? In some cases, a call back to the arty to cease fire, in others, a failure in communications and you die. My feeling is that, for ground arty in 1944 communications were reasonable ... for air, poor.
You might want to see a chance of arty being stopped but I'd put the chance of failure pretty high.

(in reply to HercMighty)
Post #: 56
RE: New Stuff - 3/19/2008 1:58:49 PM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HercMighty


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

FN,

I take it you are referring to the fact that bombardments are curtailed whenever friendlies are in the way. If so, rest assured that this will continue to be the case regardless of the timings.


Why?

So as it stands now really you don't have to worry about an end time for bombardments. Just do a start time and when the attack begins and friendlies move into position the bombardment will stop and your good to go.



Well you could do that if you don't mind running out of ammo real quick. The average arty unit has just 45 minutes of ammo per day. So you had better use it wisely.


_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to HercMighty)
Post #: 57
RE: New Stuff - 3/19/2008 2:18:51 PM   
JeF


Posts: 1170
Joined: 4/1/2003
From: Belgium
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HercMighty
So as it stands now really you don't have to worry about an end time for bombardments. Just do a start time and when the attack begins and friendlies move into position the bombardment will stop and your good to go.


What is new is the start time parameter.
Current implementation, since RDOA time, has the duration of bombardments. So we can already "exploit" the fact that we could bombard all day long a position. And we can't do it becasue, as Dave said, we don't have enough arty ammo for doing so continuously. So we must be cautious anyway. If not for friendlies (as this is automatic), for our ammo.

Cheers,

JeF.

_____________________________

Rendez-vous at Loenen before 18:00.
Don't loose your wallet !
Conquest Of The Aegean Web Development Team
The Drop Zone

(in reply to HercMighty)
Post #: 58
RE: New Stuff - 3/22/2008 5:19:26 PM   
FredSanford3

 

Posts: 567
Joined: 6/23/2007
Status: offline
I wanted to bump this to get Arjuna's feedback on whether this approach has any validity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Franklin Nimitz

A thought that occurred to me when reading that other thread referred to in post 19: Right now, you have some method when a unit disbands of transferring the remaining assets to another nearby unit. Why not do something like that when a motorized unit dismounts, but have the vehicles "disband" into either the owning HQ or base force. When the unit remounts, the vehicles "disband" from the HQ or base back to the original owner. No separate counters, just an accounting change. An appropriate "transfer delay" analogous to orders delay would account for drive time between units.

If a coy/plt size unit dismounts > vehicles go to bn HQ.
If a Bn or larger dismounts > vehicles go to base.

I believe that's not too far away from what they did IRL in many cases.

The hard part is doing a "partial disband" of select items that would be player initiated and reversible. It would also require a re-definition of a unit's movement class on the fly. I bet there's other hard parts, but just a thought...


(in reply to FredSanford3)
Post #: 59
RE: New Stuff - 3/22/2008 6:57:02 PM   
Grell

 

Posts: 1064
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

At midnight the second day's historical weather comes into force and the ground condition reverts back to normal. Voila!




That looks excellent Arjuna.

Regards,

Grell

_____________________________


(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Discontinued Games] >> Command Ops Series >> RE: New Stuff Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.184