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Starving Russia - 2/1/2008 9:10:40 PM   
wargamer123

 

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Interestingly Enough, the topic was brought up why the Russians could be starved in GOA, would make sense. I found a site I found most interesting, explaining the LandLords Kulaks and the Serf-peasants. The relationship between the two and the corruption.. It's not as if there wasn't enough grain to feed Russia, the site I found explained that the Kulaks saw WW1 as an opportunity to get rich and thus aided in the starvation of the Russian People. I wonder if this is the precise reason? Though it does make sense why one could more easily collapse the Russians with capturing Food Hexes and by pushing on the war.

Germany and the UK not the only 2 nations vulnerable to starvation

Anyway, the site quoted,

"Kulaks: The Russians that prospered the most during the war were peasant land-owners: Kulaks. Cunning muzhiks bribed local officials to prevent conscription and saw a field of opportunity open up during the war. While more and more peasants were sent to their deaths on the front lines, kulaks grabbed up their land in a free-for-all. By 1917, kulaks owned more than 90% of the arable land in European Russia, where once the majority or arable land had been in the hands of peasant communes.

The most valuable commodity throughout the war was grain, and kulaks understood this with absolute clarity: food prices climbed higher than any other commodity during the war. In 1916, food prices accelerated three times higher than wages, despite bumper harvests in both 1915 and 1916. The price of grain in 1916, already at two and a half rubles per pud, was anticipated to raise up to twenty five rubles per pud. Hoping to raise prices, the kulaks hoarded their food surplus.

Throughout 1916, the average urban labourer ate between 200 and 300 grams of food a day.

In 1917, the urban populations of Russia were allowed to buy only one pound of bread per adult, per day. In practice, workers sometimes went days without food. As a result of the Land Decree of October 26, 1917, when the peasants took back their land from the kulaks, food slowly came back into the cities again. Though the Kulaks were overwhelmed by the peasants at home and those returning from the front, many responded later in the year, during the coming Civil War."



Post #: 1
RE: Starving Russia - 2/2/2008 1:38:32 AM   
Lascar


Posts: 473
Joined: 10/7/2000
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wargamer123

Interestingly Enough, the topic was brought up why the Russians could be starved in GOA, would make sense. I found a site I found most interesting, explaining the LandLords Kulaks and the Serf-peasants. The relationship between the two and the corruption.. It's not as if there wasn't enough grain to feed Russia, the site I found explained that the Kulaks saw WW1 as an opportunity to get rich and thus aided in the starvation of the Russian People. I wonder if this is the precise reason? Though it does make sense why one could more easily collapse the Russians with capturing Food Hexes and by pushing on the war.

Germany and the UK not the only 2 nations vulnerable to starvation

Anyway, the site quoted,

"Kulaks: The Russians that prospered the most during the war were peasant land-owners: Kulaks. Cunning muzhiks bribed local officials to prevent conscription and saw a field of opportunity open up during the war. While more and more peasants were sent to their deaths on the front lines, kulaks grabbed up their land in a free-for-all. By 1917, kulaks owned more than 90% of the arable land in European Russia, where once the majority or arable land had been in the hands of peasant communes.

The most valuable commodity throughout the war was grain, and kulaks understood this with absolute clarity: food prices climbed higher than any other commodity during the war. In 1916, food prices accelerated three times higher than wages, despite bumper harvests in both 1915 and 1916. The price of grain in 1916, already at two and a half rubles per pud, was anticipated to raise up to twenty five rubles per pud. Hoping to raise prices, the kulaks hoarded their food surplus.

Throughout 1916, the average urban labourer ate between 200 and 300 grams of food a day.

In 1917, the urban populations of Russia were allowed to buy only one pound of bread per adult, per day. In practice, workers sometimes went days without food. As a result of the Land Decree of October 26, 1917, when the peasants took back their land from the kulaks, food slowly came back into the cities again. Though the Kulaks were overwhelmed by the peasants at home and those returning from the front, many responded later in the year, during the coming Civil War."


Interesting, this may explain in part why Stalin was so ruthless towards them in the early thirties. The Kulaks apparently weren't entirely blameless themselves.

(in reply to wargamer123)
Post #: 2
RE: Starving Russia - 2/2/2008 3:10:58 AM   
talldwarf

 

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I would suggest a more critical reading of your sources.  60 years of communist rule was justified based upon tarring the imperial regime.  Not everything written is accurate.  Similar in many ways the Tudor smearing of Richard III to prop up their own tenuous legitimacy.

(in reply to Lascar)
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RE: Starving Russia - 2/2/2008 4:06:37 AM   
wargamer123

 

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talldwarf, only thing we're truly interested in is proving that the starvation of Russia had reasons in WW1. Just like Carpet Baggers in the South after the Civil War, or just like OPEC is controlling oil prices, or the Tobacco industry-Beer companies prevent the legalization of Marijuana or other drugs that are less potent... Lots of things are about money. A nation like Russia shouldn't have starved not unles more of it's grain producing regions were burned. In WW2 they managed with a lot more losses of territory. Stalin isn't justified but his nation since Ivan the Terrible has an ancestory of Evil Villian Leaders. Nothing new and nothing all that unexpected regardless of Communism or Imperialism


quote:

ORIGINAL: talldwarf

I would suggest a more critical reading of your sources.  60 years of communist rule was justified based upon tarring the imperial regime.  Not everything written is accurate.  Similar in many ways the Tudor smearing of Richard III to prop up their own tenuous legitimacy.


(in reply to talldwarf)
Post #: 4
RE: Starving Russia - 2/2/2008 5:55:59 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

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Kulaks being, or course, nothing more than rich peasants.

Did this site give any actual references for the info?

Somewhere I have a 1920's work on the economic effects of hte war on Russia - I might have time to look up prices, etc tomorrow.

Bit it's also worth considering that with millions of peasants in the army and arms factories there were fewer to work the kland regardless of who owned it, and in the 1930's the USSR, as a whole, could suffer a harvest bad enough so that millions starved to death in the Ukraine.

(in reply to wargamer123)
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RE: Starving Russia - 2/3/2008 1:21:50 AM   
talldwarf

 

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Joined: 1/23/2008
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Not all histories are equally authoritative.  I don’t know what book the quote about Kulaks came from, but I would be very suspicious of any of its conclusions.  Post 1990 research has largely debunked Kulaks as a myth created by the Soviets to support its policy.  You have to wonder if the author bought this myth, how many other myths he accepted.  So, I wouldn’t rely on it for an accurate assessment of imperial Russian economy and agriculture.
That said, I wish GOA adjusted food requirement for populations no longer within your lines.  There were refugees, but there should be some reduction.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 6
RE: Starving Russia - 2/3/2008 1:26:37 AM   
wargamer123

 

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SMK, it may have had to do with Stalin's infamous 5 year Plans, They did greatly change the USSR. Had Stalin not pursued such rigorous plans, perhaps the Germans would've ransacked the place even worse than the plans themselves? Even included in 1 of the plans was the relocation of Industry Eastward.. ODDLY enough for the psychotic times the psychotic Leader did some good. Just to give you a queer example..... the relocation of the Chechen People, who later after the fall of the USSR revolted. Who knows if it was his original relocation or if the fear of them joining the Axis was justified.

The fact is when you make radical change, you can cause a lot problems. I am not 110% sure of all the aspects that went into the Collapse of Russia but I'm sure it was a bit of a fragile Government to have fallen as it did. That or economically it just couldn't endure such a long war as well as the West. They were the largest Army and I think this gave them a false sense of security. That were short on rifles to outfit their army, that is something to be said of their economic disposition in WW1...

Regardless of all things, I have heard time and time again of their food shortage issues, and this seems to affect all nations at war. The drain on the economy must've been too much but it does seem as if something corrupt, and the USSR was corrupt and the new Russian Federation is even extremely corrupt for today's standards... So I think in general being an impoverished nation of originally Serfs and Thralls from the time of the Golden Horde onward into the 19th century and beyond...there you go, when one puts it all into perspective

Stalin's regime of Fear outlasted a lot more than Tsar Nicholas's Russia, ultimately even Stalin was better than Hitler....people forget, Germans would've taken no prisoners and turned all Russian People into Eternal Slaves






(in reply to SMK-at-work)
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