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Utterly Dissapointed

 
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Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 1:05:20 AM   
Shemar

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 1/25/2008
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I just received my physical copy of Harpoon 3. I must say I am utterly dissapointed. Not by the game itself, but by the lack of a physical manual, which is the only reason I paid the extra $20 (including the shipment cost) for the physical game. All I got was a CD that I could have burned for less than a $1 myself. I can't help but feel cheated.

I can understand the realities of the computer game market of today and that is why I had no problem paying over $70 (again with the shipping cost included) for a game that uses 15 year old technology and essentially no graphics. I have no problem with that at all. But shipping a game like that with no physical manual is beyond cheap.

I won't be asking for my money back or anythng like that, but I won't be buying any more games from this company either. And it's a shame as most look like games I would like to play.

Finally the only reason I am posting this here is that there didn't seem to be an easily identifiable e-mail address for customer complaints.
Post #: 1
old wargamer - 1/25/2008 1:22:43 AM   
angellesambre

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline
 new to "posting boards". UD... that does totally suck!! Not a great "first read" for my posts!! I have the entire Close Combat Series (original Normandy, Bridge Too Far, Russian Front, Battle of the Bulge, and re-issue of Normandy. First Q: Is Cross of Iron worth buying? Will it work with Vista ( aka "Nightmare Platform"!!) How about Modern Tactics? Why this "non-resource gathering; real-as-it-gets" series never made it bigger is beyond me!! Only the Total War series is equal, I think. Any serious feedback would be appreciated!!
Q2: I also have the misfortune of owning East, WestFront, and Rising Sun Gold. The fact that most of the scenarios were NOT available for play except against a human player was beyond me. Other concerns were 1) not being able to EXIT the game, and 2) (And this is the biggie!!) The CUMBERSOME user interface, and lack of a manual!! Having to load/unload dozens of units and not knowing the capabilties of most of them got TEDIOUS VERY QUICKLY!! I beat the Japanese off in the Wake Island scenario; attemted Crete, and got so frustrated I basically back-burnered it indefinitely!! The Panzer General series was SO much easier!!
I see now that it seems to be revamped, and expanded to include WWI, Napoleon, American Civil War, etc. but the cost is a bit prohibitive if it is only going to be the same, and still no manuals ( read: Utterly Dissapointed!!!) I would LOVE to test my generalship in some of these other realms, but not if it is the same clunky unwieldy user interface!!) Any feedback would be great!!
Last comment, any chance for a game; preferably realtime, highlighting the Zulu War of 1879? Something that features Isandlwhana, Roarkes' Drift, Ulundi, and maybe a few other battles?
Thanks in advance,
The Dark Angel

(in reply to Shemar)
Post #: 2
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 2:50:23 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 36668
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
Shemar,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shemar
I just received my physical copy of Harpoon 3. I must say I am utterly dissapointed. Not by the game itself, but by the lack of a physical manual, which is the only reason I paid the extra $20 (including the shipment cost) for the physical game. All I got was a CD that I could have burned for less than a $1 myself. I can't help but feel cheated.


I'd be impressed if you can do a full color printed CD in a color DVD case for <$1. With that said, a question here would have gone a long way to helping you be happy with your purchase. Up until 2007, we did not have printed manuals. We added printed manuals to new games released since 2007. We've announced each game that has a printed manual as having one, but we did get feedback from new customers who were confused as to what did and didn't have a printed vs. PDF Manual.

That's why we made an announcement a couple of weeks ago about a new classification system, which will make it clear which games have PDF manuals, which have greyscale printed manuals and which have color printed manuals. We're also in the process of adding to the game data in the store for every game a note as to whether or not it has a printed manual and how large the manual is.

quote:

I won't be asking for my money back or anythng like that, but I won't be buying any more games from this company either. And it's a shame as most look like games I would like to play.


Hopefully the above will help you be an educated and repeat customer in the future.

FYI, our support address (see my sig and the SUPPORT link in the top nav bar) is the best way to contact us directly.

Regards,

- Erik


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Shemar)
Post #: 3
RE: old wargamer - 1/25/2008 2:52:18 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 36668
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: angellesambre
First Q: Is Cross of Iron worth buying? Will it work with Vista ( aka "Nightmare Platform"!!) How about Modern Tactics?


Yes, yes and yes - but you'd be better off asking in the CC:COI or CC:MT forum if you want some opinions from other customers who play the game.

quote:

a bit prohibitive if it is only going to be the same, and still no manuals ( read: Utterly Dissapointed!!!)


If you have a question about a particular game having manuals or not, just ask in the game's forum. In the next couple of months, all that data should also be added to the store.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to angellesambre)
Post #: 4
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 6:16:03 AM   
Shemar

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

I'd be impressed if you can do a full color printed CD in a color DVD case for <$1.

While the CD and case may have a cost for you, they are of no value for me. I can make a backup of my downloaded file (along with a text file with my serial number) for well under $1. Had I known there is no printed manual I would have just gotten the digital download, saving me $10 on the price and about $8 on shipping.

quote:

With that said, a question here would have gone a long way to helping you be happy with your purchase.

True but every other game out of the 30+ that sit on my shelf came with a printed manual, so I didn't think anyone sold games without one. Especially at the higher than full price tag.

quote:

FYI, our support address (see my sig and the SUPPORT link in the top nav bar) is the best way to contact us directly.

I do not think this qualifies as a support issue, that is why I did not think using the tech support e-mail was appropriate.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 5
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 8:36:51 AM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline
Well at least you got a game. My son ordered me "Forge of Freedom" for chirstmas right when the christmas special started and has not received the game to this date. The one time someone in my family tries to buy a retail Matrixgames product and they can't even deliver. The excuse he got "their printer broke and blah blah blah". lol A good business would have sent out the game (since they already come with a PDF file manual on the rom) and then sent out the printed manual at a later date. Ohhhh that would have set them back soooooooo much having to spend .41 cents or a little more and kept some satisfied customers with that. Now as it is I told him to just cancel the order and now they've not only lost a sale, but, a customer as well in him. Bottom line, don't advertise what you do not have in stock for sale or can't at least deliver within a weeks time of purchase.

_____________________________

WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?



(in reply to Shemar)
Post #: 6
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 10:19:57 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8569
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
...A good business would have sent out the game (since they already come with a PDF file manual on the rom) and then sent out the printed manual at a later date.

Yeah...that's what a proper company would have done. Then they'd have manned the phones waiting to be inundated with calls about how bad their service is because they sent a game without a manual.

So your one time buying a retail game failed...how's that for irony

Maybe Matrix should employ you as customer care supervisor......nahhhhh

_____________________________

Alba gu' brath

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 7
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 10:36:13 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8569
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
Shemar

I feel for you because I know it's not apparent to new people which games come with manuals and which don't.

As Erik said, the system is being updated which should make it easy for all of us (even the longer term people) to know where we stand with a purchase. I prefer manuals with my games as well.

angellesambre
I think you'll find that the the majority of people who bought Cross of Iron are well impressed with it. I didn't get on with it. The third in the Close Combat series didn't take me first time and it didn't take me second time either. But as Erik said, make your way over to the forums and have a read.

As for Modern Tactics, again, the forum for that game is probably the best way to get info on how it plays.

As for East Front, West Front Rising Sun...that is the Campaign Series, I think you'll find there is very little, if anything, changed on the interface. The game has a massive amount of content, and it's all packaged under one interface, but once in the game, it's pretty much the same. There have been tweaks under the hood, but not a great deal to my knowledge.


To both of you (I'm leaving ravinhood out for reasons I do not want to burden you with) welcome. I think you'll find the forums a great place (stay away from the mire that is the General Discussion forum unless you want to lock horns!! ) and seriously, if you are interested in purchasing a game from here, it always pays to do a little homework. Go to that specific games forum and ask about it. The purchase options, what it's like etc. If you think their answers seem a little "fanboish" (generally speaking, especially for older releases, the only people there are the die hard gamers who love it) then go to the general discussion forum and ask if anyone there has it and if they gave up on it and why...then you can get both sides of the fence and make your mind up.

Generally speaking, even if you get the die hard fans of a game, they will be objective too...."I love this series blah blah blah...but it does have some short falls blah blah blah...but if you're willing to put the time in..."

Anyway, it's always nice to see new blood. Matrix are a grood company to buy strategy games from (not the only one and not the only good one either, but one of my favourites). They do listen to feedback and they do what they can, and often go the extra mile, for customer satisfaction.


_____________________________

Alba gu' brath

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 8
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 12:40:37 PM   
e_barkmann


Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/18/2000
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

The Panzer General series was SO much easier!!


Yep. Enough said.

_____________________________

Scourge of War multiplayer group

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/sowwaterloo

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 9
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 2:43:51 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6955
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline
Just a historical note... At Wake the Marines beat off the first attack and were winning the second landing as well, every where but where the Command group was. After the Naval Officer ( with the blessing of the Marine Major) they were both surprised to find that all across the three atolls only their small fight had gone bad and they were in effect forcing their Marines to surrender to a beaten enemy.

(in reply to e_barkmann)
Post #: 10
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 5:17:16 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 36668
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
Ravinhood,

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Well at least you got a game. My son ordered me "Forge of Freedom" for chirstmas right when the christmas special started and has not received the game to this date. The one time someone in my family tries to buy a retail Matrixgames product and they can't even deliver. The excuse he got "their printer broke and blah blah blah". lol A good business would have sent out the game (since they already come with a PDF file manual on the rom) and then sent out the printed manual at a later date. Ohhhh that would have set them back soooooooo much having to spend .41 cents or a little more and kept some satisfied customers with that. Now as it is I told him to just cancel the order and now they've not only lost a sale, but, a customer as well in him. Bottom line, don't advertise what you do not have in stock for sale or can't at least deliver within a weeks time of purchase.


The day that we found out we had run out of stock (much sooner than expected, due to a significant increase in holiday sales of Forge of Freedom), we posted the status change on the store and put a reprint order in with the printer right away for more manuals. I'm sorry you were unhappy with the result, we are also unhappy that it's taken so long to get FOF back in stock.

The only reason we hadn't already ordered a reprint was that we had eight weeks of stock left based on normal holiday sales projects and were planning on using two of those to revise and update the manual before reprinting it. When the volume increase used up eight weeks of stock in less than two weeks, we went ahead and reprinted. The holidays conspired to make the reprint take longer than usual, but the manuals are on their way to the warehouse at this point.

You could have used this opportunity to teach your son about good things coming to those who wait.

Regards,

- Erik


< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 1/25/2008 5:18:01 PM >


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 11
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 5:28:59 PM   
Phatguy

 

Posts: 1348
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Well at least you got a game. My son ordered me "Forge of Freedom" for chirstmas right when the christmas special started and has not received the game to this date. The one time someone in my family tries to buy a retail Matrixgames product and they can't even deliver. The excuse he got "their printer broke and blah blah blah". lol A good business would have sent out the game (since they already come with a PDF file manual on the rom) and then sent out the printed manual at a later date. Ohhhh that would have set them back soooooooo much having to spend .41 cents or a little more and kept some satisfied customers with that. Now as it is I told him to just cancel the order and now they've not only lost a sale, but, a customer as well in him. Bottom line, don't advertise what you do not have in stock for sale or can't at least deliver within a weeks time of purchase.



Hmm..I also ordered Forge of Freedom for Christmas. But I also saw that physical copies would not be sent out until the 1st Q of 2008. It was in red letters and easy to spot.Perhaps your son missed it when he was ordering?

I see no reason to complain..play your dl copy while you wait. i am.

< Message edited by apathetic lurker -- 1/25/2008 5:40:52 PM >

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 12
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 6:23:29 PM   
mack2


Posts: 243
Joined: 6/29/2007
Status: offline
Matrix seems to have a hell of a lot of "printing" problems.

(in reply to Phatguy)
Post #: 13
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 6:28:30 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7602
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mack2

Matrix seems to have a hell of a lot of "printing" problems.



It does seem to be their single biggest headache. Something about changing horses always seems to result in headaches.

(in reply to mack2)
Post #: 14
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 6:45:14 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 36668
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
The printer problems are getting better and they've only affected the printed manuals (games without printed manuals are pretty much always in stock), I don't want anyone to think that we are going to have a regular issue here. We are STILL dealing with the aftermath of one particularly huge printer problem, which was a sudden end of the relationship with our old printer and a printer switch right before the Christmas season. This delayed printing in a number of ways and unfortunately the second problem (a good one to have) was higher than expected holiday sales. Because of the printer switch, we were caught a little flat-footed by that. Throw in a major problem with the HCE manual printing and that pretty much covers all the issues.

Right now all the back-ordered manuals are already either on their way to the warehouse or about to ship, so I expect all back-order issues to be resolved before the end of February and we've already taken steps to make sure that the rest of 2008 is smooth sailing (as long as we keep working with the current printer).

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 15
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 8:06:13 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shemar

I won't be asking for my money back or anythng like that, but I won't be buying any more games from this company either. And it's a shame as most look like games I would like to play.


Get over it. I don't mean that unkindly as I do appreciate your disappointment but there's no point in sulking and denying yourself some great gaming. Some Matrix products in particular (such as Conquest of the Aegean and War in the Pacific) are, simply, the best wargames you can buy anywhere. As has been made clear the policy on this has changed since ANW was released so 'voting with your wallet' will achieve nothing.

(in reply to Shemar)
Post #: 16
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 8:49:00 PM   
Sarge


Posts: 2841
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: ask doggie
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Well at least you got a game. My son ordered me "Forge of Freedom" for chirstmas right when the christmas special started and has not received the game to this date. The one time someone in my family tries to buy a retail Matrixgames product and they can't even deliver. The excuse he got "their printer broke and blah blah blah". lol A good business would have sent out the game (since they already come with a PDF file manual on the rom) and then sent out the printed manual at a later date. Ohhhh that would have set them back soooooooo much having to spend .41 cents or a little more and kept some satisfied customers with that. Now as it is I told him to just cancel the order and now they've not only lost a sale, but, a customer as well in him. Bottom line, don't advertise what you do not have in stock for sale or can't at least deliver within a weeks time of purchase.




quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Well there I was playing my game of Guild Wars and all of a sudden black total shut down of my computer. I mean shutdown. lol I tried to turn it back on like when this happens when it overheats and nothing not even a click like that sound you would hear in space...nothing. So I thought it might be my power supply and I always keep an extra so's I puts that one in and walla it boots up like nothing happened. Well I didn't lock everything down (screws and stuff you know that you leave loose when you're messin with your computer). So, I shut down my system and locked everything down and turned it on and a small blueish flash near the middle screw of the mother board appeared for a split second and then the black void of nothingness again. I'm like wow two blown power supplies in one fell swoop? No Way. So's I decide the mother board has some issues and probably need to replace it, it's like 4 years old now. But, before that I decide to clean it up...lotta dust in there after 4 years lol. Nah not really, but, a little, I keep my system pretty clean. So, I get all my brushes, I have toothbrush and shoe brush and barber brush and cleaned it up real good. Radiant and all everywhere. Then I said what the heck it doesn't take that much effort to take it out again and decided to reinstall it and try once more. Welp now it's up and running again an no blueish ligntning bolts running around in there. But, I am getting a "file is missing in your registry had to use a log or previous save to fix" and it boots up and everything is working again....for now.....

Any idea what happened here? Why do I hve a missing file all of a sudden in my registry and better yet what file is it? lol



Its called KARMA

_____________________________


(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 17
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 9:02:11 PM   
Ike99


Posts: 1747
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: A Sand Road
Status: offline
quote:

You could have used this opportunity to teach your son about good things coming to those who wait.

Regards,

- Erik



(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 18
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 9:18:36 PM   
Shemar

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shemar

I won't be asking for my money back or anythng like that, but I won't be buying any more games from this company either. And it's a shame as most look like games I would like to play.


Get over it. I don't mean that unkindly as I do appreciate your disappointment but there's no point in sulking and denying yourself some great gaming. Some Matrix products in particular (such as Conquest of the Aegean and War in the Pacific) are, simply, the best wargames you can buy anywhere. As has been made clear the policy on this has changed since ANW was released so 'voting with your wallet' will achieve nothing.



You may be right and I may eventually get over it. I was really looking forward to the printed manual so I could start learning the game the proper way (without having to Alt+Tab to the PDF manual all the time). The moment I saw the package had arrived, I got charged up for an evening of reading the manual and learning all the details about the game I had missed by experimanting and doing the tutorial. It is what I do with every new game I buy. And then I opened the box...

It was under this emotional framework that I made my original post.

I am actually impressed that I got a prompt reply from a company representative and Matrix does seem to understand the issue, since they are taking steps to more clearly indicate whether a printed manual exists with a package or not.

As for myself, I guess I have to take one less thing for granted, and make it a point to check if a manual comes with a game or not before buying.

(in reply to Hertston)
Post #: 19
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 9:30:18 PM   
Terl


Posts: 609
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Well at least you got a game. My son ordered me "Forge of Freedom" for chirstmas right when the christmas special started and has not received the game to this date. The one time someone in my family tries to buy a retail Matrixgames product and they can't even deliver. The excuse he got "their printer broke and blah blah blah". lol A good business would have sent out the game (since they already come with a PDF file manual on the rom) and then sent out the printed manual at a later date. Ohhhh that would have set them back soooooooo much having to spend .41 cents or a little more and kept some satisfied customers with that. Now as it is I told him to just cancel the order and now they've not only lost a sale, but, a customer as well in him. Bottom line, don't advertise what you do not have in stock for sale or can't at least deliver within a weeks time of purchase.




quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Well there I was playing my game of Guild Wars and all of a sudden black total shut down of my computer. I mean shutdown. lol I tried to turn it back on like when this happens when it overheats and nothing not even a click like that sound you would hear in space...nothing. So I thought it might be my power supply and I always keep an extra so's I puts that one in and walla it boots up like nothing happened. Well I didn't lock everything down (screws and stuff you know that you leave loose when you're messin with your computer). So, I shut down my system and locked everything down and turned it on and a small blueish flash near the middle screw of the mother board appeared for a split second and then the black void of nothingness again. I'm like wow two blown power supplies in one fell swoop? No Way. So's I decide the mother board has some issues and probably need to replace it, it's like 4 years old now. But, before that I decide to clean it up...lotta dust in there after 4 years lol. Nah not really, but, a little, I keep my system pretty clean. So, I get all my brushes, I have toothbrush and shoe brush and barber brush and cleaned it up real good. Radiant and all everywhere. Then I said what the heck it doesn't take that much effort to take it out again and decided to reinstall it and try once more. Welp now it's up and running again an no blueish ligntning bolts running around in there. But, I am getting a "file is missing in your registry had to use a log or previous save to fix" and it boots up and everything is working again....for now.....

Any idea what happened here? Why do I hve a missing file all of a sudden in my registry and better yet what file is it? lol



Its called KARMA




Nice......

(in reply to Sarge)
Post #: 20
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 9:53:04 PM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline
quote:

You could have used this opportunity to teach your son about good things coming to those who wait.

Regards,

- Erik


Smiley face all you want to, you lost several sales because of this fiasco. And instead of telling me what to teach my son you could do well with teaching your son (or yourself) what are fair and good practices toward your customers and prospective customers. You let a LOT of people down during christmas and that is the fact that stands above all else. I don't know how many stores hang around when they keep telling their customers they have eggs when they don't have any eggs. All I keep reading are "excuses" out of you. Our printer failed, we had more than expected sales of FOF, lol FOF wasn't the only game you didn't ship during the christmas holidays.....here are more games people didn't get on time in our users group.

Harpoon Com. Edition
Guns of August
Campaign Series
GG World at war: Divided
Empires in Arms

So, it wasn't just FOF or I'm just a singular case. You did disappoint a hellofalot of people during christmas.


_____________________________

WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?



(in reply to Shemar)
Post #: 21
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/25/2008 11:16:17 PM   
cdbeck


Posts: 1374
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shemar
I am actually impressed that I got a prompt reply from a company representative and Matrix does seem to understand the issue, since they are taking steps to more clearly indicate whether a printed manual exists with a package or not.

As for myself, I guess I have to take one less thing for granted, and make it a point to check if a manual comes with a game or not before buying.


You will find, Shemar, that there really isn't much more of a class act than Erik and crew. I have seen Erik online at ALL times of night, on ALL days of the week, even (or maybe especially) on holidays. He has personally worked me through nearly intractable hardware/software problems, finding answers that nearly only benefited one person (how is that for personal customer service). I'm sorry you were disappointed by the manual issue (I would see how that might be disheartening), but don't let this one blip ruin a great relationship with a stand-up company of hard-to-get, unique in quality, high-detail wargames. Bar-none, Matrix's Advanced Tactics is my favorite wargame (I know, I'm not much of a grognard).

Might I suggest that you invest in a cheap (less than $80) laser printer? These often come with a 1/2 capacity printer cartridge that will have you up and running in no time). Outside my gaming addiction, I just don't know how I would live without this thing, as I print whole books/articles off the internet quickly and at high quality (by that I mean book-quality readable). This is actually my preferred method of manuals - as I can print it as large as I want, whatever pages I want (I leave out that legalize crap) and I get to punch holes and make my own handcrafted manual (I mount them in portfolio/presentation folders with clear fronts to display the title page). I love having each page be on a whole sheet, as it helps to look at graphs and such. Just my $0.02. It isn't in color... but that usually isn't a terrible thing.

Anyway, welcome to the forum Shemar, I hope you enjoy the game (despite the manual issue) and that you come back to try some of the other games, once your disappointment wears off.

SoM


< Message edited by Son_of_Montfort -- 1/25/2008 11:17:28 PM >


_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to Shemar)
Post #: 22
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/26/2008 12:09:48 AM   
Shemar

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

Might I suggest that you invest in a cheap (less than $80) laser printer? These often come with a 1/2 capacity printer cartridge that will have you up and running in no time). Outside my gaming addiction, I just don't know how I would live without this thing, as I print whole books/articles off the internet quickly and at high quality (by that I mean book-quality readable). This is actually my preferred method of manuals - as I can print it as large as I want, whatever pages I want (I leave out that legalize crap) and I get to punch holes and make my own handcrafted manual (I mount them in portfolio/presentation folders with clear fronts to display the title page). I love having each page be on a whole sheet, as it helps to look at graphs and such. Just my $0.02. It isn't in color... but that usually isn't a terrible thing.


I actually have access to a high end color printer at work and a good enough relationship with my boss that he lets me use it for personal reasons, even when it's 100-page color gaming manuals! So I already have a printed copy of the manual. But it just isn't the same. Instead of a nice small-sized booklet, I have this unwieldy stack of papers.

Anyway, I said what I said because of the emotional climb and dive I explained above. I understand the policy of not having a printed manual, I just wish I knew that before spending $20 on the physical copy of the game (+shipping). I am not saying Matrix did anything wrong, but at the same time they did fail to live up to my expectations, as I don't think expecting a paper manual with a several years old game that still retails for above full price is unreasonable.

And while I will not stop myself from buying any more games from Matrix because of what happened, I will definitely not be buying any more physical versions unless they explicitly state they come with a full printet manual (color or B&W does not make much of a difference to me).

(in reply to cdbeck)
Post #: 23
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/26/2008 3:00:52 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8569
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
Well I'm with you shemar. I do understand your frustration. But in all honesty, Matrix are a good company and they have a lot of good games under their belts.

I hope you stay around to find that out.

And don't listen to ravinhood...he's got degrees and diplomas and everything in the art of whining. I've bought a fair few games from Matrix and never had an issue. The only time I ever have seen them have issues with stock, was right before Christmas, and as far as I know, they let people know asap.

It's been an issue in the past, there website not being clear enough about what comes with what. Hell, I've been here a while and for new releases you'll often see me in the forum asking if it comes with a printed manual or not and when it'll be available...I I know their policy! So I can only imagine how infuriating as a new customer it could be.

But as Erik said, they've listend, and they're updating their website (it'll be aa while yet) to show what you buy and how much.

Seriously, if you have a question about a game, whatever it may be, then ask away.


_____________________________

Alba gu' brath

(in reply to Shemar)
Post #: 24
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/26/2008 3:05:07 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8569
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
I don't know how many stores hang around when they keep telling their customers they have eggs when they don't have any eggs. All I keep reading are "excuses" out of you. Our printer failed

Does that mean you are leaving now? Don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
...we had more than expected sales of FOF, lol FOF wasn't the only game you didn't ship during the christmas holidays.....here are more games people didn't get on time in our users group.

I think Erik might know that Forge of Freedom wasn't the only game they had issues with. I presume from that statement you have a degree in the bloody obvious?

He was referring to your issue, ergo talking about Forge of Freedom. Had you had an issue with the Campaign Sreies, I' sure he would've mentioned that in his post.

Stop being a pedantic old git.

< Message edited by JudgeDredd -- 1/26/2008 3:06:27 AM >


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Alba gu' brath

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 25
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/26/2008 6:07:40 AM   
Shemar

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Well I'm with you shemar. I do understand your frustration. But in all honesty, Matrix are a good company and they have a lot of good games under their belts.


The problem with good wargames is that they don't end! What is that you say? That is supposed to be a good thing? Try juggling 5 games, a job, a wife and two dogs!

At least with your regular games, you buy it, you finish it you can move to the next one with your concience clear

As you can guess my mood has improved. Being Friday night will do that for you

In case anybody is curious the 5 games I am juggling at the moment are*: Neverwinter Nights II, IL-2 1946, Combat Mission, Galactic Civilizations II and of course Harpoon 3: Advanced Naval Warfare which caused all this trouble!

______
* I hope this does not violate the rules about not advertising 3rd pary games in this forum. If it does, please delete.

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 26
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/26/2008 6:11:51 AM   
cdbeck


Posts: 1374
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
That's funny Shemar, because I prefer the large size of the self printed manuals to the smaller sizes of the in-box type. To each his own I suppose!

Of course, another reason to come here is to watch the fireworks between the forum elder/gods/heavy-weights. These guys are great and great fun, even when they disagree!

But I will say that I disagree with RH here. I have never had problems. Now I ALWAYS buy the Digital Download (in my mind, why pay $10+ for something that I can do on my own). But I will say that it should be obvious which games have printed manuals within. I would have been fooled the same way, as the few retail copies of Matrix games I did buy all have manuals (of varying quality - John Tiller's Campaign Series was huge, while Korsun Pocket was tiny and not helpful when compared with the PDF reference). If you ever have questions, you can also go to the NWS wargame store and email Chris. He will tell you what comes in the box.

To be fair to Matrix, HPS Sims game's only ship with a CD and jewel case. Talk about disappointing. First time I bought one of those, I was really let down.

SoM


_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 27
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/26/2008 6:20:02 AM   
Shemar

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

Now I ALWAYS buy the Digital Download (in my mind, why pay $10+ for something that I can do on my own).


That was my point exactly! And it's not just $10, it's the shipping cost too another $8 or so. Anyway, in the grand scheme of things I have wasted a lot more than $20 on much sillier things, so I am sure after I have learned the game well enough not to need the manual any more I'll get over it

And I do agree with everybody else saying (or implying) that we should make an effort to support one fo the few companies that still make games that require brains and not itchy fingers

(in reply to cdbeck)
Post #: 28
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/26/2008 6:35:32 AM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shemar
The problem with good wargames is that they don't end! What is that you say? That is supposed to be a good thing? Try juggling 5 games, a job, a wife and two dogs!

The dogs are usually easier to juggle if you catch and spin them by their tails. The wife...well...where you grab her and how you spin her is your business...

(in reply to Shemar)
Post #: 29
RE: Utterly Dissapointed - 1/26/2008 6:39:06 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 36668
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Smiley face all you want to, you lost several sales because of this fiasco. And instead of telling me what to teach my son you could do well with teaching your son (or yourself) what are fair and good practices toward your customers and prospective customers.


I guess you lost your sense of humor somewhere? Given your usual commentary here, I didn't think you'd take me that seriously. Did you also realize that you could have contacted us to switch to a physical + digital version so that he could get the download right away while the physical was back-ordered?

quote:

You let a LOT of people down during christmas and that is the fact that stands above all else.


We also made a lot of people very happy. Among other things we had our longest-running holiday sale ever and in terms of overall holiday orders, over 95% shipped out on time, the rest were delayed due to printer issues and the store was updated the day we learned of a stock issue so that the least possible customers would be affected without a chance to be informed.

quote:

Harpoon Com. Edition


When we order it to arrive on time and it arrives but not in a condition to sell so that we have to reprint from the start, what do you expect us to do? We re-ordered the same day, it's not something we were exacly happy about either. Sure, we'll take the blame for it, but we're also extremely disappointed that the HCE orders were delayed by that.

quote:

Empires in Arms


Manuals for this arrived right before Christmas and started shipping right away. As far as I know everyone that ordered it for Christmas got it. The initial shipment then sold out and the second shipment with enough to cover at least the next year of sales just got to the warehouse today.

etc.

quote:

So, it wasn't just FOF or I'm just a singular case. You did disappoint a hellofalot of people during christmas.


I don't think anyone here is unaware of the situation we've been dealing with. There are number of titles in our store with big red letters talking about back-orders and a lot of posts in our forums from us and from customers talking about it. We've been trying to keep everyone informed while we get through this transitional disruption.

I'm not sure what you want me to tell you. I'm sorry your son's copy of FOF didn't arrive on time because stock ran out while we were still switching printers, but I guess what I don't understand is what magic wand you think we could have waved to change that? We did the best we could and I know that for a fact. I always regret losing an order and disappointing a customer, but I also know how hard we fought for you all in a variety of battles with suppliers and vendors and how much worse it could have been if we hadn't given it our all.

These back-orders will pass and very soon and for the rest of this year as well as for next Christmas, as long as we don't lose our printer right before a huge slew of releases again, I'm confident we'll be back-order free.

Regards,

- Erik



_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 30
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