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Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/23/2008 11:38:00 PM   
pad152

 

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Box Copies, problems with Manuals

Every box version of Matrix Games I've purchased so far has a damaged manual, the manuals are being chewed up by the CD/DVD case during shipping. Anybody else seen this issue?
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RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/23/2008 11:50:12 PM   
andym


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Nope all mine have been fine.

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RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/24/2008 2:00:06 AM   
pasternakski


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Another argument in favor of electronic manuals...

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And the people let me down.
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RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/24/2008 4:41:13 AM   
Phatguy

 

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You be quiet!

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RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/24/2008 4:43:17 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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pad152,

quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152
Box Copies, problems with Manuals
Every box version of Matrix Games I've purchased so far has a damaged manual, the manuals are being chewed up by the CD/DVD case during shipping. Anybody else seen this issue?


I'd love to get your order info and some pics of the damage so that we can get back to whichever warehouse shipped these about this and see what we can do to improve the packing. Was the box they came in damaged at all?

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 5
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/24/2008 8:50:06 AM   
pad152

 

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Eric

I purchased these through NWS, the cutouts for the tabs that hold the manual seem to chew them up.


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Post #: 6
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/24/2008 9:00:43 AM   
sterckxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152
Eric
I purchased these through NWS, the cutouts for the tabs that hold the manual seem to chew them up.


I've seen this on the Forge of Freedom manual - it is so thick it barely fits inside the dvd case - that said the damage there is mostly confined to the cover page.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to pad152)
Post #: 7
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/24/2008 9:28:57 AM   
pasternakski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

You be quiet!

Sir, yessir.

But ... but ... but ...

The constant clamoring for printed manuals has already resulted in loss of color manuals for many titles. In the future, B&W PDFs. How thrilling.

As Donovan P. Leitch might have said:

E-lec-trickle banana
Is going to be a sudden craze.
E-lec-trickle manuala
Is going to be the very next phase.

They call it mellow yellow (quite rightly)

Please. No more printed manuals. Sorry. Shutting up now.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

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Post #: 8
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/24/2008 9:42:51 AM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski


quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

You be quiet!

Sir, yessir.

But ... but ... but ...

The constant clamoring for printed manuals has already resulted in loss of color manuals for many titles. In the future, B&W PDFs. How thrilling.

Please. No more printed manuals. Sorry. Shutting up now.

No....the constant clamoring for manuals DID NOT result in the loss of colour manuals....it resulted in purchasers receiving manuals. The loss of colour manuals was profit margin.

And as far as I am aware you DO NOT get a black and white PDF

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Post #: 9
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/24/2008 10:11:38 AM   
pasternakski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
No....the constant clamoring for manuals DID NOT result in the loss of colour manuals....it resulted in purchasers receiving manuals. The loss of colour manuals was profit margin.

And as far as I am aware you DO NOT get a black and white PDF

But, Judge, purchasers were already receiving a manual. What they weren't receiving was paper and cardboard. We don't need no stinkin' paper and cardboard.

I have to believe that manuals prepared with printing in B&W in mind will not be so visually delectable as a document created for electronic publication only. Besides, how do you know those PDFs will be color rather than B&W?

As for the loss of color manuals being attributable to profit margin concerns, I don't see your point. If profit was the problem, not printing the manual was the solution.

Just think. You could get a nice, full color map of the EiA board in an electronic manual, cost: zero. How many nice color maps do you think you're gonna get in a printed manual?

Johan Gutenberg was a great man. He died a long time ago. Let's move on.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 10
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/24/2008 10:14:37 AM   
JudgeDredd


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Sorry

Meant to say this
quote:


...it resulted in purchasers receiving printed manuals.



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Post #: 11
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/24/2008 10:23:53 AM   
JudgeDredd


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Besides, I really don't understand why you find the system as it stands so abhorrent.

As the system is
  • you get what you want
  • I get what I want
It's a win/win. You pay no more for your product....I do. You don't get printed manuals, I do.

I understand your desire not to have printed manuals and if Matrix were to say "We are going to sell all our games with printed manuals only AND you are going to be stung the extra $10 for the priviledge", then I would understand your reluctance to accept printed manuals and your stance on them as it appears now, but that isn't the case.

I pay extra, and I get a manual. You pay less than me and don't get a printed manual.


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Alba gu' brath

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Post #: 12
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/24/2008 10:27:18 AM   
zaquex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Besides, I really don't understand why you find the system as it stands so abhorrent.

As the system is
  • you get what you want
  • I get what I want
It's a win/win. You pay no more for your product....I do. You don't get printed manuals, I do.

I understand your desire not to have printed manuals and if Matrix were to say "We are going to sell all our games with printed manuals only AND you are going to be stung the extra $10 for the priviledge", then I would understand your reluctance to accept printed manuals and your stance on them as it appears now, but that isn't the case.

I pay extra, and I get a manual. You pay less than me and don't get a printed manual.



Seems very fair to me

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 13
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/24/2008 10:38:11 AM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski
I have to believe that manuals prepared with printing in B&W in mind will not be so visually delectable as a document created for electronic publication only.
I think you are wrong about the quality. AFAIK, it's a simple enough process to create a colour PDF and print it black and white. That is to say, the manual would be created the way it always was...colour PDF. It's only sent to the printer in black and white.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski
Besides, how do you know those PDFs will be color rather than B&W?
I don't. I just gathered that it was only printed manuals which would be affected.

Still, one of the Matrix boys can come and tell us straight if PDF manuals will be in black and white. I don't know for sure, which is why I said in my post And as far as I am aware you DO NOT get a black and white PDF

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski
As for the loss of color manuals being attributable to profit margin concerns, I don't see your point. If profit was the problem, not printing the manual was the solution.
My reference to profit was a general term. What I am getting at, and was made clear by Matrix, is the "lesser" selling games will have no printed manual...other games will have a black and white option. Apparently, according to Matrix, it is not cost efficient to have the ability to produce colour OR black and white manuals...so they went with black and white.


quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski
Just think. You could get a nice, full color map of the EiA board in an electronic manual, cost: zero. How many nice color maps do you think you're gonna get in a printed manual?
That really doesn't matter does it, because I will be able to print the nice colour map I have in the nice colour PDF supplied with the game!

Personally I am more than happy with a black and white printed manual...you can enjoy your colour pdf without me whinging about it...perhaps you could afford me the same right?


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Post #: 14
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/24/2008 10:45:49 AM   
sterckxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski
Besides, how do you know those PDFs will be color rather than B&W?


Because Matrix has stated they would remain in colour.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx


(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 15
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/24/2008 12:52:30 PM   
Phatguy

 

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You know, I prefer having a manual stuffed into my game. I can take that damn thing anywhere since its size is no bigger than a dvd case. Heck, I can take it to dinner when I take the wifey out...I know, i know, bad idea! Try using a standard printer and print it out. Its like dragging along a  10 pound accounting ledger. I pay extra for the DL+ physical. I dont have a problem with that. I want a manual, someone else doesnt. I pay more they pay less. Whats the problem with having it both ways?

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Post #: 16
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/24/2008 1:16:41 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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From: Vermont, USA
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The PDFs have always been and will always be in color. And the B&W printed manuals are quite fine, I've seen them in person.

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Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Phatguy)
Post #: 17
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/24/2008 1:38:52 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski


quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

You be quiet!

Sir, yessir.

But ... but ... but ...

The constant clamoring for printed manuals has already resulted in loss of color manuals for many titles. In the future, B&W PDFs. How thrilling.

As Donovan P. Leitch might have said:

E-lec-trickle banana
Is going to be a sudden craze.
E-lec-trickle manuala
Is going to be the very next phase.

They call it mellow yellow (quite rightly)

Please. No more printed manuals. Sorry. Shutting up now.



Not when it costs me an additional $65 over and above the game purchase price in printer cartridge overhead to print my own hard copy of the PDF!

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 18
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/25/2008 2:09:26 AM   
BoredStiff

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

Eric

I purchased these through NWS, the cutouts for the tabs that hold the manual seem to chew them up.



Yes, I've seen this with two of my manuals, but the damage was very minor, limited to about a 1/4-inch tear in the back cover page. Nothing to be concerned about, in my case.
Oh, and I bought mine directly from Matrix.

< Message edited by BoredStiff -- 1/25/2008 2:10:32 AM >


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Post #: 19
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 1/25/2008 5:31:11 AM   
Fred98


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In COTA, the manual is in PDF version.  This manual has electronic links throughout.

"Refer to section 6 and click here to go straight there".

It is the only manual I have seen with links.  It is also well laid out and very thorough.  Probably the best manual I have seen in wargaming.

Much better than the manual that came with my running shoes!
-





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Post #: 20
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 2/10/2008 8:02:10 AM   
SkyElf

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: andym

Nope all mine have been fine.


I have slight damage to the back of manual 3/4 inch minor tear about 1/12 bending down at the top from the back of manual comming out from binding of my Empire In Arms game manual! Not happy but I will live with it. This is the first time this has happened. I called in order from website! I'm located in the USA.

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Post #: 21
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 2/10/2008 11:56:14 AM   
Phatguy

 

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Speaking of manuals and box copies, i should be getting mine for FOF soon .. Just think , Matrix is the only company I actually trust to send out backordered stuff  . 

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Post #: 22
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 2/13/2008 4:30:59 PM   
Marauders

 

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My manual came in fine, but I had a scratched up floater disc in one case and the tabs holding the manual broken off in another.

The post office is often to blame, but packaging makes a difference.

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Post #: 23
RE: Box Copies, problems with Manuals - 2/13/2008 5:09:13 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 34525
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From: Vermont, USA
Status: online
I just wanted to mention that we've been following up on these complaints with the warehouse to make sure they insert the manuals more carefully and pack the games more carefully. We've also gone with a slightly heavier stock on the new printed manual covers to try to reduce these incidental tears.

_____________________________


Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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Post #: 24
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