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Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 4:54:46 AM   
Adam Parker


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Sometimes you just get a pleasant surprise in life and I thought I'd just post what follows to mention one such occasion.

Browsing the new lines on the website for my local game store (it carries the full Matrix range on its shelf by the way) I saw something that made my heart skip a beat: "Hannibal - Rome vs Carthage"!

I mean, was I going mad? That's an Avalon Hill, card driven, point-point, game name that I fondly wished I had bought all those decades ago. But yes! There it was, with a box shot too. This time, by a game company called Valley Games.

And sure enough, when I visted the store today, I held in my hand a very weighty box indeed - just $90AUD but heavy it was and I just had to bring it home, curiousity fully fuelled.

Well, on opening the box, man, was I surprised. Here was something of beauty and of such quality - it serves as an icon to suggest what a re-release can be all about.

- Mounted map board? - Yes. But built like a huge jigsaw puzzle with interlinking panels - and the colors just ooze artistic flair.
- Die-cut pieces - Even better. Thick, rugged, Euro quality that just pop out of their housings. No cut and trim here.
- Die - Well-sized with Roman Numerals to add epic flavor.
- Written materials - Shrink wrapped play cards, glossy, completely re-written rules and blood tinged, thick stock charts.

This baby is going to be a thing to behold. "Titans" is next on the list of developments. Who knows what else may soon sprint forth from the beloved AH stable? But today I saw the brand new "War at Sea", two shelves below a full "Advanced Squad Leader" range. Richard Berg I believe is working on a re-release of "Successors" and "Blackbeard".

What a nice surprise indeed.
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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 5:01:28 AM   
Veldor


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I've known about Hannibal and Titan for awhile (even posted that info here several times) but as far as I've ever known the only War at Sea remake was Hasbro's in the form of an Axis and Allies Miniatures Game (Extremely impressive detailed miniatures complete with moving parts but still hardly faithful to the original game).

Am I wrong on that last part? Did someone else remake War at Sea directly? Link?

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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 5:01:33 AM   
Zap


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Nice to have all those favorites before your eyes. What amazes me more is that store you visited. I don't think we have too many stores stocked like that. Nothing comparable that I know of in the US.

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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 5:15:51 AM   
Veldor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

- Mounted map board? - Yes. But built like a huge jigsaw puzzle with interlinking panels - and the colors just ooze artistic flair.


The jigsaw idea is definitely an interesting way to both save printing costs and help to appeal to a larger demographic segment.
At least this way your wife and kids might help you put together the mapboard even if they then don't want to play the game.

Doesn't seem like much fun after the first time you have to put it together though. Never did like puzzles much myself.

Well here is a pic of the puzzleboard all put together...




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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 5:34:38 AM   
ravinhood


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The best puzzle map AH ever made I think that my family, wife and son enjoyed putting together more than playing it was "Magic Realm". Huge I'd say 5" hexes with colorful printings on both sides. Back sides were enchanted tiles that one could turn them into with their players spell cards. No map was ever the same twice and the way all the tiles really came together no matter how you placed the tiles was remarkable. First randon map generated board game I ever saw methinks.

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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 5:50:47 AM   
marcusm

 

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This is what I wrote about earlier. Why can't computer wargames look as clean and stylish?



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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 6:28:01 AM   
Adam Parker


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Veldor  Where did you get that pic from?!

Folks, the new board I'm talking about isn't a puzzle of course. About 6 mounted interlocking panels link up together to form the board. I think it solves the issue of warping that some of AH's folding maps suffered.

However, even at 6 sections, what a great way to teach a young kid war gaming!

Btw Veldor google the L2 Design Group for "War at Sea". It's the same outfit that remade "The Russian Campaign". WaS is their new baby.

@ Zap. Yes we're very lucky to have a stand alone retail shop like that Down Under. I can't remember Matrix's policy on listing shop names on this forum but if it is ok I'll give them a plug later (I've mentioned them before a few times anyway). There is a similar store that I know of near the Empire State Building in NY too. Both do mail order very well.

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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 6:32:25 AM   
Adam Parker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marcusm

This is what I wrote about earlier. Why can't computer wargames look as clean and stylish?


Yes. I totally agree.

I mean I also picked up a cheap copy of Decisoon Games' "Blue and the Gray" that covers Bull Run, Shiloh, Chickamauga. 4 pages of rules!... 1 neat counter sheet. But months of gaming fun.

Why don't PC game designers get this? They're just shooting themselves in their wallets.

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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 6:42:45 AM   
ravinhood


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Back in the day you used to get laminated maps in some of the old SSI wargames like Shilo and Antietam and Gettysburg and Carrier Force, and Computer Ambush. I think Sons of Liberty was the first one of that series type to just come out with an old cardboard unlaminated map. Then the cheapness started to set in oh around 86 or 88 I guess when manuals got smaller and thinner with less information and no maps at all. Man did you guys get all those oldies like "Knights in the Desert"?, "Battle for Nomandy"?, "Tigers in the Snow"? Those were like the 3 first wargames SSI did. I'd say those came closest to playing like a real board game than many of the others. I remember getting Knights in the Desert on a CASSETTE TAPE first. wow we've come a long way from cassette tape computer games. The amazing great games we got back then with less than FIVE MB's of data. lol 5 mbs and today 5 gigabyte games aren't even as good.

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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 6:46:46 AM   
Veldor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

Veldor  Where did you get that pic from?!

Some boardgame geek

Maybe my idea of humor is a bit warped...

My bad.




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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 7:16:14 AM   
Warfare1


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I also agree that I wish pc games offered the same high quality graphics as board games.

Here are some pictures of the board game Hannibal:











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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 7:21:40 AM   
Warfare1


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Here is a larger view of the whole board game map of Hannibal:








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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 10:05:20 AM   
leastonh1


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Wow, there are some nice game shots there! Hannibal looks fantastic! We struggle here in the UK to find stockists (except online) of games like this. There are some, but you tend to have to travel a long way.

I really need to buy a copy of this game! Thanks Adam for mentioning it. My wife will be soooo pleased

Regards,
Jim


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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 7:50:00 PM   
Feralkoala

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor

I've known about Hannibal and Titan for awhile (even posted that info here several times) but as far as I've ever known the only War at Sea remake was Hasbro's in the form of an Axis and Allies Miniatures Game (Extremely impressive detailed miniatures complete with moving parts but still hardly faithful to the original game).

Am I wrong on that last part? Did someone else remake War at Sea directly? Link?


You are wrong, L2 Design Group has redone War at Sea. Hasbro's War at Sea has nothing to do with the boardgame. The price is a bit steep, but I suppose it all depends on where one is in life Linkage:

War at Sea

It lists it at the printer, but the game is out--Art is just abysmally slow at updating his site. They are redoing a number of other oldies. Panzergroup Guderian leaps to mind.

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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 10:55:46 PM   
Warfare1


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There are actually a few game stores where I live that still carry all these types of games. Who would have thought?

The game map of Hannibal does raise a few suggestions for computer strategy games, though.

First, why has a large turn-based strategy game of the Punic Wars not been done yet??

Second, please note that the Hannibal map is divided into REGIONS or PROVINCES. However, within each region there are FIVE nodules that are linked to each other.

This raises several interesting ideas: namely, the above setup might be helpful to computer AI. The linked nodules could provide the AI with discrete pathways to move on. The AI could be programmed to move along these pathways, with each nodule given a certain priority.

It would also allow for players to move INTO a region without it automatically being taken over. The players would have to maneuver their armies to surround an opposing player before combat could take place.

This would add a huge element of strategy.


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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 11:07:05 PM   
ravinhood


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I thought HPS did a "Punic Wars" wargame recently?

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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 11:22:28 PM   
Warfare1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I thought HPS did a "Punic Wars" wargame recently?


Strictly scenario based as far as I know.

It would be nice to see that Hannibal map on a computer screen :)

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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/21/2007 11:53:26 PM   
Warfare1


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Here is another board game called "Conquest of the Empire" that takes place during Rome's turbulent Civil War:












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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/22/2007 4:05:31 AM   
Veldor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Warfare1

I also agree that I wish pc games offered the same high quality graphics as board games.

Here are some pictures of the board game Hannibal:


The remake is a real work of art. A definite improvement.

It's too bad I, like many, have no one to play it with.

Doesn't seem like much point in buying it just to drool over...

Even if there were other gamers in my area (Chicago) we're so spread out, yet congested, over here that they could literally be nearly a 2hr drive away

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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/22/2007 5:07:28 AM   
Zap


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Veldor,
Good point. A reason why I don't purchase a boardgame. I would be relagated to looking at it or playing both sides.

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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/22/2007 5:31:52 AM   
ravinhood


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Couldn't you vassal play them?

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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/22/2007 5:59:42 AM   
Veldor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Couldn't you vassal play them?


I'm one of those where all appeal is then lost. It's just not the same. I'd likely not even setup the physical board then and for that matter really dont even need to buy the game outside of learning/knowing the rules.

And then its just a poorly done computer game.

Free for me doesn't really factor in, especially if I could afford a game like this in the first place..

Plus Java Games make me puke..

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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/22/2007 10:40:00 AM   
ravinhood


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You ever play "The Dark Tower" Java game Veldor? It's just like the Milton Bradley electronic game. I was elated when I found it and it works and you can play it against 3 computer opponents as well. Now I wonder if there is a computer java "Stop Thief" game out there somewheres. ;) I found a java game of Avalon Hills "Magic Realm" as well. I am amazed at the resemblance of it to the actual game and also amazed at how the computer java versoin of the rules are quite different from how I interpreted them. No wonder I never died playing the actual board game. lol Some java games can bring to life some of those old board wargames you can't play because you don't have them anymore or no one to play them with.

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RE: Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (2007 Release) - 12/26/2007 1:49:28 PM   
Rapstyle

 

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Wow,it seems cool.

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PC Wargames Can't Do This - 1/6/2008 11:21:22 AM   
Adam Parker


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A day in board gaming land with the new Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (courtesy Board Game Geek).




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RE: PC Wargames Can't Do This - 1/7/2008 11:35:23 PM   
Arctic Blast


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Seems my interest in board gaming has increased suddenly...

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RE: PC Wargames Can't Do This - 1/8/2008 12:29:12 AM   
Warfare1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

A day in board gaming land with the new Hannibal Rome vs Carthage (courtesy Board Game Geek).





It is not well known that gorgeous beauty contestants do indeed prefer to spend long hours playing board wargames at home instead of going out to dinner and night clubs...

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RE: PC Wargames Can't Do This - 1/8/2008 5:32:15 AM   
Brigz


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quote:





I guess this settles the "which is better -- AI or live opponent" argument. She may not be smarter than an AI, but who cares.

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RE: PC Wargames Can't Do This - 1/8/2008 5:57:43 AM   
Veldor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker




C'mon now, we all know she was paid (or at least promised to be paid) to sit there for that photo.

The smart ones learned a long long time ago that this is the best way to sell games to guys.

My recent personal favorite is gametrailers.com partnering with "The tag bodyspray girls" to do their cheat code videos.

After watching this I really really need to buy Tiger Woods Golf '08 (And more importantly visit gametrailers.com much more often):

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/146565.html

Ironically enough its the one site I know of that has girl gamers that review games as well (Well videogames anyway)...

I'd suggest Matrix build on that idea and start making videos of their own:

"Hot Chicks w/ Advanced Tactics Tips 1"
"Hot Chicks w/ EiA AAR 1"
"Hot Chicks Introduce PC Lock 'n Load"

etc.

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RE: PC Wargames Can't Do This - 1/8/2008 6:09:22 AM   
Brigz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor

C'mon now, we all know she was paid (or at least promised to be paid) to sit there for that photo.



Well, it is obviously a photo of a "fantasy" wargame.


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