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Stategy/tactics questions - 12/9/2007 11:56:46 AM   
jlewis42

 

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Hi,

I was wondering if anyone had any solutions to the following problems (I am playing as the Union vs. a computer Confederate opponent):

1) It seems very difficult to get the Rebs to commit to a fair fight, instead they always seem to be able to retreat with minimal loss when outnumbered. Even surrounding Confederate armies and leaving them with no retreat destination fails, they just retreat to one of my blue territories and capture it. Surely there must be a way to destroy tiny annoying depleted enemy armies that keep retreating? Is there a way to corner an army and force it to battle?

2) It seems impossible to defeat a large rebel army with home-field advantage. In my last game I've been attacking the Confederate eastern army at Richmond every other turn, it is always about 100,000 of my men vs. 50,000 of theirs, I have some 10+ artillery brigades they have maybe 2, sharpshooters and rapid fire guns on almost all of my brigades, and I kill twice as many men as I lose but still lose the battle and suffer 5-10k "pursuit" casualties just about every time! Is there anything someone could recommend to add to my army in order to win an offensive battle on Rebel turf?

All in all I applaud the designers on a well made game, most of the experience fits the historical reality perfectly. The gameplay is solid too though and that is also important.

Post #: 1
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/9/2007 12:17:12 PM   
moose1999

 

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Are you playing detailed battles or quick combat/instant resolve?

And welcome to the forums, by the way!

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regards,

Briny

(in reply to jlewis42)
Post #: 2
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/10/2007 12:31:29 AM   
MilRevKo

 

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You might want to take in to account the Logistics and Command ratings of all of the Norths container units.
--
Utinam populus romanus unam cervicem haberet!

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Post #: 3
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/16/2007 4:57:56 PM   
Anthropoid


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I've found that mastering the tactical combat is the key to kicking the AIs butt. Use of terrain, entrenchment, proper deployment of brigades based on different weapon types & attributes, as well as generals, quality, numbers, morale, all critical for milking it for the best possible outcomes.

One other thing: in order to 'surround' an enemy unit, it must have absolutely no place to go, meaning enemy units in every tile around it, and not only that, but enemy units that 'got there quickly.'

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Post #: 4
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/16/2007 8:08:04 PM   
Ironclad

 

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Impassable terrain - mountains and lakes - provides for useful economy of force when surrounding enemy units and splitting units is another helpful device - for those with the minimum strength of 2000 or more and which have the necessary 6 movement points remaining.

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Post #: 5
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/17/2007 3:39:21 PM   
MorningDew

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 9/20/2006
From: Greenville, SC
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quote:


1) It seems very difficult to get the Rebs to commit to a fair fight, instead they always seem to be able to retreat with minimal loss when outnumbered. Even surrounding Confederate armies and leaving them with no retreat destination fails, they just retreat to one of my blue territories and capture it. Surely there must be a way to destroy tiny annoying depleted enemy armies that keep retreating? Is there a way to corner an army and force it to battle?

2) It seems impossible to defeat a large rebel army with home-field advantage. In my last game I've been attacking the Confederate eastern army at Richmond every other turn, it is always about 100,000 of my men vs. 50,000 of theirs, I have some 10+ artillery brigades they have maybe 2, sharpshooters and rapid fire guns on almost all of my brigades, and I kill twice as many men as I lose but still lose the battle and suffer 5-10k "pursuit" casualties just about every time! Is there anything someone could recommend to add to my army in order to win an offensive battle on Rebel turf?


Spoken like a true Union general! Sounds like something every commanded of the AoP would have said, which speaks highly for the game.

(in reply to jlewis42)
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RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/20/2007 4:51:39 PM   
meisterchow


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I'm currently playing as the South, and I've had the opposite reaction to the "Virginia Meatgrinder."  From 11/61 to about 10/62 I fought 8 major engagements in Virgina.  I would win battle after battle against the AotP, but even with a 2:1 casualty ratio, my brigades were wearing out.  By the middle of 1862, most of the Brigades I had in Virginia would have morales above 8.5 or 9 but only have 800 or 900 troops.  I had to pull back from the Maryland border to give my troops some breathing space so all the camps I've been building could actually regrow the brigades instead of trying to plug holes from the last battle.  Believe me, I'm taking notes for when I play the Union.

Interestingly enough, the Union backed down for a few months, as well, then came on strong in early 63.  They initially invaded with a giant clump 200,000 strong, which I simply couldn't deal with so I tried to stay out of its way.  Then, the clump broke up to besiege the various forts scattered around Virginia and actually try and conquer the state.  That's when I struck - first by breaking the siege of Richmond and all but annihilating the Union group there, and now I'm rolling up the various corps scattered around.  Just for grins, I declared Emancipation (and luckily only Florida bowed out), and the result is that the VP level is now -11 for the Union and 4 for me (though National Will is in the toilet for both of us).  I'm hoping that the combination of repeated losses in Virgina, my resurgence in Kentucky, and the Emancipation will wear out the Union by the end of the year.

(in reply to MorningDew)
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RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/20/2007 8:04:40 PM   
Gil R.


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Sounds fun. If desperate, you can always send a few garrison units from a relatively safe area to join the ANV and then disband those units AFTER they've safely arrived inside a division container, and thus reassign their men to your depleted units. (DO NOT try to do this all in one turn, because if the garrison unit doesn't make it to your army for some reason, such as bad weather, then you've simply disbanded your unit and wasted it. Make sure it gets there first.)

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RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/20/2007 9:43:06 PM   
meisterchow


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Hmmm, that's an interesting idea. I'll have to sock that away for future reference.

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Post #: 9
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/20/2007 9:48:34 PM   
meisterchow


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Let me just add that I find it fascinating that Grant's strategy does seem to be the best way to deal with a Southern army - grind 'em down! The fact that the usually superior Southern troops only get better in the process makes it a fun challenge for both sides.

I'm actually kinda anxious to finish my CSA game so I can start a USA game and apply some of this stuff to the other side.

_____________________________

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Post #: 10
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/20/2007 10:09:25 PM   
GShock


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I've used as CSA many times this disband feature to refill the other Bdes...i've always wondered what happens with their equipment (attributes and guns you buy)?

Is it lost or perhaps half of it is given back to you?

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Post #: 11
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/21/2007 1:46:03 AM   
Gil R.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GShock

I've used as CSA many times this disband feature to refill the other Bdes...i've always wondered what happens with their equipment (attributes and guns you buy)?

Is it lost or perhaps half of it is given back to you?



I believe that guns are lost, though only Eric knows for sure. Someone might have suggested on the wish list that brigade attributes get assigned to another brigade, and that's something to consider for the future, but it doesn't work that way now.

Regarding CSA garrison units, I think it's smart to move the ones from the areas between Memphis and New Orleans into the Memphis and Nashville areas to resist the North's incursions. After all, the North can't besiege Jackson until it's taken Tennessee, so that garrison in Jackson can do a lot more good by rushing to Fort Donelson or Island No. 10. Likewise, the Atlanta garrison should be sent by rail to Knoxville or Chattanooga, especially if Kentucky goes with the Union.

(in reply to GShock)
Post #: 12
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/21/2007 3:17:39 AM   
sirduke_slith

 

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quote:

I believe that guns are lost, though only Eric knows for sure.


Why would the guns be "lost" that doesn't make any sense!?

(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 13
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/21/2007 3:21:31 AM   
Gil R.


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It's a game. We might not have thought of every possible rule. This might be one of the ones we didn't think of.

The truth serum wears off in two more hours, so if there are any other questions for which any of you wants an honest answer instead of spin, this would be the time to ask...


(in reply to sirduke_slith)
Post #: 14
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/21/2007 5:04:19 AM   
Gil R.


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Ahh, I feel its effects wearing off...

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Post #: 15
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/21/2007 7:09:30 AM   
Missouri_Rebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

so if there are any other questions for which any of you wants an honest answer instead of spin, this would be the time to ask...




O.K then. What is the subject of your next game and it's working title?


_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 16
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/21/2007 7:23:24 AM   
Gil R.


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"Crown of Glory: Emperor's Edition"

The serum wore off, but that's still the truth. (You should have phrased your question better.)


< Message edited by Gil R. -- 12/21/2007 7:24:38 AM >

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
Post #: 17
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/21/2007 10:00:30 AM   
soeren01

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

Sounds fun. If desperate, you can always send a few garrison units from a relatively safe area to join the ANV and then disband those units AFTER they've safely arrived inside a division container, and thus reassign their men to your depleted units. (DO NOT try to do this all in one turn, because if the garrison unit doesn't make it to your army for some reason, such as bad weather, then you've simply disbanded your unit and wasted it. Make sure it gets there first.)


You can even disband some of the normal brigades to fill up your other ones. This also has the additional advantage that you have fewer brigades to pay for.
As CSA in the beginning I muster as much as I can and use this mustered troops during the winter to fill up my regular brigades by disbanding them inside a container.

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Post #: 18
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/21/2007 7:42:00 PM   
GShock


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Acceptable that guns get lost and attributes too but how about the unit quality? I mean the units who got replacements coming from the disbanding of Garrisons and other depleted brigades do affect the receiving unit's quality like Camp reinforcements do? 

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Post #: 19
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/21/2007 8:08:34 PM   
ericbabe


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Actually if the quality of the unit receiving disbanded strength is lower than the unit that disbanded, then the quality of the unit receiving strength will increase, not decrease.

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Post #: 20
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/21/2007 11:57:14 PM   
Jonah


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Hmm. Can you send replacements to your ranks without having to get another brigade, disban d it and send them into the other?

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Post #: 21
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/21/2007 11:58:30 PM   
Jonah


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Sorry if that was a stupid question. I don't even own the game yet. But I'm looking into it.

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Post #: 22
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/22/2007 12:19:18 AM   
Gil R.


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Not stupid at all. The answer is yes, but only if playing with advanced supply rules. If that's the case, then the divisions/corps/armies that are set on higher supply than the others will draw the replacement troops. So, lets say that your ANV gets defeated, and the 1st Division is especially mauled. In that case, perhaps put the army on low supply, but the 1st Division on normal or high supply -- this will get replacement troops heading into the 1st Division. Note that when using high supply it means that fewer brigades will get more replacements. That is, if you put an entire army on high supply then maybe ten brigades will get 500 replacements, whereas if the corps army on normal supply then twenty brigades would get 250 replacements. (Those numbers are approximations, since I forget the maximum replacement levels.) Overall, where replacement troops go is random, but one can influence that randomness by means of changing supply levels.

What you should do is play around with this, watching the "Supply" report each turn to see where the replacement troops went. You'll soon get a good grasp of how to handle this feature.


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Post #: 23
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/22/2007 2:17:25 AM   
Jonah


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Thanks Gil!!! I was wondering.

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Post #: 24
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/22/2007 6:21:24 PM   
sadja

 

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To fill up depleted brigades, I some time make up refit Div. I send depleted brigades to a div in the rear, set the supply to high and they get max replacements. I would like to do a Corp like that but the north doesn't leave me alone long enough to pull that many troops from the front lines.

_____________________________

Your never Lost if you don't care where you are.

Tom Massie GPAA

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Post #: 25
RE: Stategy/tactics questions - 12/24/2007 3:31:53 PM   
hgilmer

 

Posts: 184
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From: Birmingham, Alabama
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlewis42

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone had any solutions to the following problems (I am playing as the Union vs. a computer Confederate opponent):

1) It seems very difficult to get the Rebs to commit to a fair fight, instead they always seem to be able to retreat with minimal loss when outnumbered. Even surrounding Confederate armies and leaving them with no retreat destination fails, they just retreat to one of my blue territories and capture it. Surely there must be a way to destroy tiny annoying depleted enemy armies that keep retreating? Is there a way to corner an army and force it to battle?

2) It seems impossible to defeat a large rebel army with home-field advantage. In my last game I've been attacking the Confederate eastern army at Richmond every other turn, it is always about 100,000 of my men vs. 50,000 of theirs, I have some 10+ artillery brigades they have maybe 2, sharpshooters and rapid fire guns on almost all of my brigades, and I kill twice as many men as I lose but still lose the battle and suffer 5-10k "pursuit" casualties just about every time! Is there anything someone could recommend to add to my army in order to win an offensive battle on Rebel turf?

All in all I applaud the designers on a well made game, most of the experience fits the historical reality perfectly. The gameplay is solid too though and that is also important.




It really sounds like you are playing Instant Battle which is what I usually play. I like a fast game that maybe last two nights of my time.

Response to 1.: Yeah, they really do seem to be able to get away but you have to remember, the Rebels, I am thinking, were usually more country-wise and could do that kind of thing. They also generally had better commanders in many cases. If they keep getting themselves in "out of supply" areas, though, you will eventually see them surrender in droves. I had a huge army of theirs strike up to the Allegheny/Ohio river (forget name of city - but it was on Ohio/Penn/WV state lines or so) and the whole army of about 80K fell apart and surrendered. Kentucky was union so they were really out of their area of ownership.

2. This is something I have run into many times in Instant Battle. Richmond is almost an impossible nut to crack until late in the war due to morale/weapon/leader concerns. You are almost guaranteed to lose a battle with the Rebels in IB on their home turf and less than about 3.5 to 1 advantage. I'm pretty sure I lost one battle in IB at a 4 to 1 advantage. I cannot remember the casualties, but I think even with my surrenders (which greatly angered me) I was about 1/2 of the dead/casualties as the Rebels.

Additionally on #2: My strategy in the East is the old baseball strat "Hit 'em where they ain't". If they aren't in Fredericksburg, I try and get it cheap. If I do, then I build a fort and stock it up good - 2-3 garrisons, good guns, good added attributes. Then I take the army out and see if they'll "take the bait". Almost always they send in an army to take it back, and I send in my army to beat them up on my home field and my fort "+"'s. It works pretty good. If that gets wto working well, I start taking other parts of Virginia , if possible, with the same strategy. I even had some games where they left the garrison in Rappahannock unmolested for a few turns and that gave me time to build up decent forces to send in there to fight a good home field advantage to me battle.

I hope my meandering helps you as you deal with those dastardly, cowardly rebels!!!

_____________________________


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