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WinXP widens lead over Vista - 11/30/2007 7:37:13 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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It appears as though Windows XP SP3 is simply crushing Vista SP1:

http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=204203975

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 11/30/2007 7:41:29 PM   
Terminus


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There's an SP3? Didn't know that...

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 11/30/2007 7:47:13 PM   
oi_you_nutter


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Vista Service Pack 1 & XP Service Pack 3 have not been released to the general public yet.

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 11/30/2007 7:49:10 PM   
Terminus


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Ah... I wondered why I hadn't heard of either...

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 11/30/2007 8:06:47 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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Actually, the article indicates that WinXP outperforms Vista in ALL versions. The lead is expanded in the upcoming service packs.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 11/30/2007 8:09:10 PM   
Terminus


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Well, that's hardly news. Vista is a horrible piece of garbage.

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 11/30/2007 9:28:27 PM   
ravinhood


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Lol Welp I had said that Vista was showing signs of failure in the markeplace looks like I was right and as I predicted. ;) Ole Ravinhood is right again. ;)

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 11/30/2007 9:30:18 PM   
wworld7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, that's hardly news. Vista is a horrible piece of garbage.


Vista is what it is.

But we ALL will be using it at some point down the road.



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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 11/30/2007 9:50:56 PM   
leastonh1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish
But we ALL will be using it at some point down the road.

Not me.

I have always said I'd never use another MS operating system after XP reaches the end of its life. My OS of choice is Linux. Vista is a dreadful OS in every way and Microsoft just seem to be getting worse with their production values. I want to control my OS, not the other way around and XP is a real pain for this reason. Vista is even worse.

I won't be sorry to walk away from Windows and Microsoft. The only thing I will miss is gaming. Then again, as the gap closes between Linux and Windows, manufacturers and devs will have to start catering for both platforms. It's inevitable and good for competition. We are beginning to see serious capital investment from OEM manufacturers for dedicated Linux PC's, which will continue. Microsoft have been forced to allow manufacturers to continue to buy XP for new computers, as customers just don't want Vista. I wonder why?

I know all OS's have fans and no doubt there are people reading this on Vista who love it. That's great, but I can see the same fancy graphics toys and gui on a Linux box costing a quarter of the Vista ready PC.

Bloatware, bugs, loss of user control, bsod, DX10, drivers, hardware incompatibility, confusing licensing, lack of security, Genuine Advantage, User Account Protection etc. etc. Vista is very poor as an OS. I'm sure things will improve when Service Pack 99 is released, but I'm not prepared to spend a stupid amount of money on a beefy PC just to run my OS at a reasonable speed. Many people simply cannot afford the investment anyway. You can buy a PC with Linux pre-installed for the same price as a single license of Vista!!!

Up the revolution!

Regards,
Jim

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 11/30/2007 9:51:17 PM   
ravinhood


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Maybe not flipperwasirish. Remember ME? NT? 2000? We weren't ALL using those at one point down the road. Vista may just turn out to be to much of a flop to put that much into it afterall like ME and NT and 2000.

Well I don't want Linux either. I don't want to have to worry if this game comes out if it works on my system or Linux or both or only one. Nope, what we need is to remain with XP and then update it over time with little $5 updates that are worth $5 and not just a bunch of rubbish. We shouldn't have to change OS every 5 years, it's bad enough we have to change hardware in that time period or less. It's like buying into a neverending model to build and you never have all the pieces to it they just keep adding more. Remember when we used PCI graphics?? Then the top dog became AGP and now the swing back to PCIe. Lol all made to sell crap and I personally don't see the advantages between the two when I compare them using certain games. Now we have core duo and quad core bs coming along lol And games are farting out with those processors installed. You know things are farked up when the program tells you it's not compatible with your damn PROCESSOR!! lol That's just sheer stupidity and it does nothing but cost us the consumers more more more in the long term.

Once again if you support the issues they will continue to push them out the door. But, if you boycott and stop buying just because there's something for sale and waiting on good product then they are going to have to stop and start listening to the consumer. The roar is growing I'm happy to say. I see more and more people everyday complaining about software flaws and OS's and hardware updating. I'm not the only one anymore. ;) Of course I knew I wouldn't be it's just taking time for others to catch up to what's going on. It's been all about money grubbing for far too long and Bill Gates has enough of it he doesn't need any more. ;)

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 11/30/2007 10:02:07 PM >

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 11/30/2007 10:04:56 PM   
leastonh1


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I'd forgotten about ME!!! I had that installed on a PC for less than a week when it was released. Man, it was bad. NT was pretty good for its time as a server platform, once SP6 came out. 2000 was a bit of an experiment, I think as they wanted to see if Active Directory was viable. I remember the good old days of DOS though and still think it was a huge mistake to drop it from Windows.

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 11/30/2007 10:10:00 PM   
wworld7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

I'd forgotten about ME!!! I had that installed on a PC for less than a week when it was released. Man, it was bad. NT was pretty good for its time as a server platform, once SP6 came out. 2000 was a bit of an experiment, I think as they wanted to see if Active Directory was viable. I remember the good old days of DOS though and still think it was a huge mistake to drop it from Windows.


I loved DOS, I understood it, it understood my commands...the good old days...

Alas, Vista is upon us. And it will replace XP in time. And if it doesn't than the next generation will. The gospel according to Gates.

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 11/30/2007 10:11:06 PM   
morvwilson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, that's hardly news. Vista is a horrible piece of garbage.


Vista is what it is.

But we ALL will be using it at some point down the road.



Therminus,
You are WAY TOO kind!

Flipper,
They wont get me with out a fight!

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 11/30/2007 11:10:08 PM   
mjk428

 

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Vista outperforms XP? No surprise for me.

98 outperformed XP. DOS outperformed Windows. And it's amazing what Chris Crawford could do on an Atari 800.

Operating Systems regularly get less efficient in exchange for convenience and features - and not just those made by MS.

I don't use Vista yet but I'm sure I will someday. And I'll keep an XP machine up and running just as I now have a system running Win98. Not that I use it much.

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 11/30/2007 11:11:00 PM   
NefariousKoel


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Profess the goodness of other OSs such as Linux or even overpriced Apple stuff all you want - Windows still has the most software available by far and that's the deciding factor for many.

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 11/30/2007 11:54:30 PM   
hueglin


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My experience with Mac OS9 vs OS X is very similar, the newer system (at least over a network) is slower. Lots more bells and whistles though!

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/1/2007 12:58:38 AM   
leastonh1


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No matter what you think, Windows has for the first time a genuine rival in Linux. It is gaining ground and snapping at their heels. Only this time, Microsoft can't buy Linux out because nobody owns it. Eventually, Microsoft will be forced to improve their crap products due to simple competition. About time. It doesn't matter if you like or want Linux or not. That wasn't my point. The fact is that competition is what drives prices down and quality up for consumers. If Microsoft had no historical rivals, they'd be releasing buggy, unfinished and poor products left, right and centre.........oh!!!

ravinhood, you can't expect XP to continue working with upgrades for years just because it's better than their other OS's. For one thing, the source is closed, so all you could hope for is to add to the bloat and continue increasing the size, whilst introducing more bugs. You can't rewrite and recompile as you do with Linux because Microsoft won't release the source.

As for hardware, I agree and disagree. Without new hardware, we'd all still be playing on the Spectrum and C64. Those were great machines and I have very fond memories (along with emulators!) of playing those games. But, I wouldn't want to turn back that clock! If you don't want to keep up with the latest fashions, then don't. I take little notice of those who spout crap about having to have dual core processors and PCIe SLI cards to be able to play the latest games. I don't have either and can play everything that's been released in the last few months. It's just marketing and sales pitch. Smoke and mirrors.

Regards,
Jim


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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/1/2007 1:58:31 AM   
Veldor


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Linux to the untrained is horrendously hard to use. But no one expects an ignorant user to be able to use Linux without reading a book or taking a class. The same was true for Novell or any other non-MS Operating System.

But, for some odd reason, people have adopted this thought that a user without any education on Vista/any reading or any training should just be able to start clicking away and be every bit as good at it as they were the previous version.

The average user still gets far further in front of a Vista machine than a Linux machine.

I'm not here to defend Microsoft, but as someone who has worked closely in the past with some of their top talent I see all of this negative MS criticism as nothing more than the average bullies making fun of the smart kids so as not to feel so bad about their own lack of knowledge & abilities.

On the surface there may well be a decent number of issues with Vista still, but if you look under the hood there is a lot of brilliant engine parts some of which are so future focused they won't really even need to be used until they are further carried forth into Windows 7.

Of course seeing and understanding those things takes significantly more effort than jumping on the latest headline from some no-name testing firm.

As others have pointed out the same crap was said about XP. Yet somehow now the whole world is off of Win9x just about and XP is this magically great OS now vs Vista. Oh what short memories some of us have.....



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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/1/2007 3:27:29 AM   
leastonh1


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Never mind, I was ranting about MS and deleted most of my post.

Let me ask this instead...
Would you be saying those things above about a Matrix game if it were released in as bad a condition as Vista? I sincerely doubt it. The facts speak plainly and don't need me to do anything other than quote them. Vista, as with most initial MS OS's is in very poor shape. The problem is that people are getting sick and tired of the promises that aren't delivered. For example, what happened to Vista being the most secure OS ever? What a joke that was. Vista is their new, shiny flagship product which is failing to sell well because it has been so poorly reviewed and received in the market place. That's a fact and nobody's fault but MS.

The thing is, MS annoy me and many others because they have lost sight of their customers and because they cause a lot of people a lot of frustration. Why shouldn't they be the target of people's anger if they caused it in the first place?

Regards,
Jim

< Message edited by Jim_H -- 12/1/2007 3:37:34 AM >


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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/1/2007 3:55:39 AM   
Terminus


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I might not say the things I said about Vista and Micro$oft in general with regards to a Matrix game, but then Matrix doesn't force me to buy their games if I want to run a computer that I can use for playing other computer games on. Micro$oft does; the two are not comparable.

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/1/2007 4:42:29 AM   
Adam Parker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, that's hardly news. Vista is a horrible piece of garbage.


To the contrary and statements like this nearly put me off going with Vista. I implore those looking for a new PC to ignore them.

I'm loving my entire Vista Ultimate experience. Not one crash, niggle or hiccup.

I don't build my own systems, I don't mod them or tweak them. I order what I want and I get a vendor who knows what they're doing to sell it to me. And I'm reaping the benefits.

Every peripheral including my 2 year old iPaq sync and work smoothly plug and play.

Norton and my other AV/Anit-Malware programs run sweetly. My games run fine. OS boots and loads rapid fire, programs, mail, web run lightning fast.

Bottom line: If you're going to buy a new PC get it with Vista Business or better and get good hardware to match. To get an idea of what you need, just pick up the boxes of the games out this month - Bio Forge, Crysis etc:

1. Dual Core or better.
2. 2Gig Ram or better.
3. nVidia 8600 or better.

These specs are dirt cheap today and after the Xmas buying period they'll be even cheaper as DDR3 Ram, quad core and nVidia 9000 cards swamp the market first half of 2008. Get these specs and you'll find Vista outshines XP as the servant that runs what you need. It looks and feels better in every way.

Adam.

< Message edited by Adam Parker -- 12/1/2007 4:57:43 AM >

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/1/2007 9:24:13 AM   
ravinhood


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Thing is if you look back in time these same games we see today aren't much different they are still 1mb to 5mb of game and then 995,999mb of graphics. And Bio Forge and Crysis? pfft worthless poc games that are only good for one run through and then they are done. So, some idiots spend $4000 to play stupid games like that on a stupid OS that isn't required when you aren't interested in games like that..big deal that's hardly worth upgrading for childish silly games like that. I'm just not one who ewwws and ahhhhhs over graphics and them having to be at some reality level of perception. I just got 18 Wheels of Steel Across America 2002 model game and the graphics are just fine I don't need anymore improvement to "play the game". I have Oblivion and I see no reason to increase the quality of those graphics....so why the need to push graphics any futher?

The other thing and concerning Vista is that you have to know that the majority of your computer users just like console users are pretty much idiots and morons. They don't want to have to READ anything. That was the whole point of Win95/98/Me and XP a SIMPLE OS where all the user had to do for the most part was just PLUG n PLAY no reading 500 page manuals or things of that like. XP for the most part was pretty stable, the major issues with XP out of the box were security issues and worms and viruses forging their way in. The other issue with XP is it wouldn't run a lot of old software that was made for Win95/98 I could forgive it that it didn't run many dos games, but, the Win95/98 ones were hard to swallow. Now as an "intelligent" computer user I was able to figure out how to get many games that didn't work to work on XP. You're average common joe computer guy didn't and doesn't want to mess with trying to figure it out or even search out a way on the internet, nope, he wants plug n play. And it's even worse with Vista now. It's why your average common joe guy wants the new powerful hardware, but, doesn't want the ignorant OS of Vista and thus why XP is beating Vista still in the marketplace. Vista doesn't offer enough of the new and improved to warrant a purchase to the average joe computer person. It might for businesses (though even that doesn't appear apparent) and your drooling graphics artists, but, that's about it. I can live with XP until wargames and strategy games require it and it alone and they had better have AI's out of this world and not just some graphics facelifts of previous games.

Think about it would you really buy a Battles in Normandy 2 or Battles in Italy 2 just because they improved the graphics to directx 10.X? lol I think only idiots would do that. What wargame or strategy game do you have now that you think needs a 2008 graphics facelift anyways or in need of Vista OS to play? Most of the ones we would like to see updated we want to be able to play on XP and todays graphics and hardware are just fine for those updates we just don't need Vista OS or 2008 graphics capabilitys.

Main thing is the consumer joe just needs to stop following the pied piper. Just because Joe Blow got Vista doesn't mean Joe average everyday should get Vista. Joe Blow is  geek and Joe Average everyday is just your normal average everyday consumer who likes to stay all comfy in his secure and warm blankey of XP. ;)

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 12/1/2007 9:27:38 AM >

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/1/2007 10:01:30 AM   
Adam Parker


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I think you're taking this all a bit too personally Ravinhood. First up I am a PC moron. I bought a new PC because I wanted more RAM and a faster response. I had a choice of XP Pro or Vista and I took Vista. With great trepidation because of posts like yours mind you. Well, I'm posting now how it really has been for me. Vista is rock stable.

Vista thankfully is built for morons like me. I found the ol' file explorer and have it sitting in my Quick Launch bar. Hey if I want, I can right click the bar and voila it gives me the Windows XP Start menu and layout... if I ever want to step back in time but I like my new look.

Vista has been the most plug and play friendly program I've ever seen. I have needed NONE of my install discs for hardware. The new Windows Mobile Centre even loves my old iPaq. So what crap are you preaching on about?

As for games - I bought my new rig to play my AGEOD titles, give me a chance at scrolling Forge of Freedom and World at War AWD. And my friend, it just loves Battles in Normandy "1" and Italy - I can actually change screen resolutions now (before on XP these games would crash - way to go, my new DirectX 10 nVidia card!)

Talking about crashes, didn't I read somewhere that the Chinese Olympic movement was so scared of Vista it made a big point of staying with XP? Well, maybe you want to have a talk to the guy facing quasi-execution (or at least sterilization) because his XP-based ticketing system couldn't cope today and gave the big error screen

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/1/2007 12:59:31 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, that's hardly news. Vista is a horrible piece of garbage.


To the contrary and statements like this nearly put me off going with Vista. I implore those looking for a new PC to ignore them.

I'm loving my entire Vista Ultimate experience. Not one crash, niggle or hiccup.

I don't build my own systems, I don't mod them or tweak them. I order what I want and I get a vendor who knows what they're doing to sell it to me. And I'm reaping the benefits.

Every peripheral including my 2 year old iPaq sync and work smoothly plug and play.

Norton and my other AV/Anit-Malware programs run sweetly. My games run fine. OS boots and loads rapid fire, programs, mail, web run lightning fast.

Bottom line: If you're going to buy a new PC get it with Vista Business or better and get good hardware to match. To get an idea of what you need, just pick up the boxes of the games out this month - Bio Forge, Crysis etc:

1. Dual Core or better.
2. 2Gig Ram or better.
3. nVidia 8600 or better.

These specs are dirt cheap today and after the Xmas buying period they'll be even cheaper as DDR3 Ram, quad core and nVidia 9000 cards swamp the market first half of 2008. Get these specs and you'll find Vista outshines XP as the servant that runs what you need. It looks and feels better in every way.

Adam.


I got a new PC about three weeks ago and specifically went to the only shop in town that still sells computers with OEM XP. XP is rock solid and has no more teething troubles; Vista will probably attain that status Some Day(tm) but they're not within screaming distance of it now. I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole.

Good for you that your system works, but there are simply too many people who are having problems with theirs.

< Message edited by Terminus -- 12/1/2007 1:01:10 PM >


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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/1/2007 1:09:30 PM   
leastonh1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I might not say the things I said about Vista and Micro$oft in general with regards to a Matrix game, but then Matrix doesn't force me to buy their games if I want to run a computer that I can use for playing other computer games on. Micro$oft does; the two are not comparable.


But, nobody forces you to use Windows. That's the perception you have because you've been conditioned to think like it. You can play games on Linux or OSX too. You have Wine in Linux to play Windows games, without Windows. You have native Linux games and cross platform games (Quake and UT for example).

And you've still missed my point. I was talking about how you'd react to Matrix if they released a game in as poor condition as most Microsoft OS's are. That was the comparison I was trying to illustrate. People do complain bitterly about Windows and are up in arms, but they still use Windows instead of going elsewhere. They are taken in by the hype and marketing to really think there are no alternatives to Windows. The fact is, they are wrong.

Regards,
Jim

_____________________________

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Richard Winters: We're paratroopers, Lieutenant, we're supposed to be surrounded.

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/1/2007 2:15:47 PM   
Adam Parker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I got a new PC about three weeks ago and specifically went to the only shop in town that still sells computers with OEM XP...

Good for you that your system works, but there are simply too many people who are having problems with theirs.


See you've defeated your own argument in your first sentence.

If Vista was so poor, it wouldn't be on sale in every other store.

Happy to talk gaming with you any day Terminus and respect your opinions there - but your posts here are just rampant scaremongering and myth.

People with problems? What are their specs? How are they configured? Who built their systems? Once again: Buy the right hardware and get it built by a compentent vendor and Vista is a dream.

The only people I could suggest with new systems, who would be having any issues, are those who were foolish enough to buy out of the box with anything less than 2Gigs of Ram. All the big name brands and vendors who pushed Vista with 512MB or 1Gig Ram should be facing product recalls.

But as of late 2007, with Dx10 cards rampant and DDR2 Ram dirt cheap, there's just no excuse for lack of caveat emptor.

Sheesh and to the guy who suggested a good Vista system costs 4 bills, try 2 buddy - and that's a base-grade Toshiba widescreen laptop with 2Gig RAM and 512MB video, out of the box, plug and play.

That's not my system of course

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Post #: 26
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/1/2007 2:20:20 PM   
Terminus


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Okay, so your argument is that since everybody sells Vista, it must be good? So if every McDonalds started selling McDeadRat burgers, they'd be good too?

I'll eventually have to get Vista, like everybody else, but it'll be several service packs down the road.

< Message edited by Terminus -- 12/1/2007 2:22:52 PM >


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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/1/2007 4:50:59 PM   
ravinhood


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Well it's good that we have pioneers like Adam in one way. In several years when the rest of us intelligent peoples upgrade (to whatever is the OS that actually works for everyone) we can thank those like Adam who wasted their time and money on the OS's for pioneering the way to find all the bugs and flaws and security issues for us. :) I believe in upgrading when one "has to" instead of when one is lead to by the nose. ;) I follow no pied pipers when it comes to the computer or computer gaming industry. I found out they lie and are grubby lil money mongers and the majority of their products don't work out of the box and sometimes for years they need fixing most especially microsoft OS's. ;)

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 28
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/1/2007 5:35:09 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
You're a real hero...

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We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 29
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/2/2007 1:43:18 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
Sorry for raining on yor party boys.

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 30
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