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The Best WWII USMC Documentary?

 
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The Best WWII USMC Documentary? - 11/23/2007 1:39:25 AM   
KG Erwin


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The best part is that is all contemporary footage, and it is in the public domain. I'm referring to "With the Marines at Tarawa", released to theaters in 1944 as part of a war bond drive.

The timeline is Nov. 20-23, 1943.

See it here: http://www.archive.org/details/WiththeMarinesatTarawa
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RE: The Best WWII USMC Documentary? - 11/23/2007 8:34:44 AM   
MrBoats

 

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I think it's the film in which you see Marines and Japanese soldiers in the same shot -- very rare. It appears a squad of Japanese run from one position to another while the Marines open up on them from very close range. I'm not sure if it's the one in which the cameraman actually filmed a small group of Japanese officers surveying the battlefield, while he lay in the bottom of a trench below them.

--- I just watched the film via the link -- I agree with KG Erwin. Thanks KG for posting the link. It makes me shudder to think what an invasion of the Home Islands would have entailed.

< Message edited by MrBoats -- 11/23/2007 9:00:12 AM >

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RE: The Best WWII USMC Documentary? - 11/23/2007 9:02:35 PM   
Titanwarrior89


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Very deadly close quarter battle.   Seen this file before.  It shows you what the american fighting man can do when trained properly along with the right equipment and support.

< Message edited by Titanwarrior89 -- 11/25/2007 6:36:56 AM >


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RE: The Best WWII USMC Documentary? - 11/23/2007 9:35:41 PM   
KG Erwin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

Very deadly close quarter battle.   Seen this file before.  It shows you what the american fighting man can do when traind properly along with the right equipment and support.


This was actually our first attempt at assaulting a heavily-defended beach, and valuable lessons were learned. One of them was the need for bazookas to reduce the enemy defenses. These were available in theater, but none of them made it to the troops assaulting the island.

Also, the Shermans made their first appearance, but no attempt at proper tank-infantry coordination had yet been taught. They were making it up as they went.

That famous film sequence of the attack made by an ad-hoc assault team on "Bonnyman's Hill", that huge Japanese bunker, is classic. No supporting armor in sight. It's a man-held flamethrower, grenades and small arms.

This stillshot comes from that sequence:






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 11/23/2007 9:39:11 PM >

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RE: The Best WWII USMC Documentary? - 11/24/2007 11:40:48 AM   
Doggie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin



This was actually our first attempt at assaulting a heavily-defended beach, and valuable lessons were learned.


"Our"? So when did "we" assault a heavily defended beach? "We" would certainly like to hear a first hand account, "Gunny".

In all seriousness, those of us who actually have served in the United States Armed Forces find this "we" stuff objectionable and offensive, and have repeatedly reminded you of this.


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RE: The Best WWII USMC Documentary? - 11/24/2007 2:45:29 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie
"Our"? So when did "we" assault a heavily defended beach? "We" would certainly like to hear a first hand account, "Gunny".
In all seriousness, those of us who actually have served in the United States Armed Forces find this "we" stuff objectionable and offensive, and have repeatedly reminded you of this.


I think that could be quite reasonably interpreted as meaning "our" as in "American", let's try to be a bit less touchy.

Regards,

- Erik


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RE: The Best WWII USMC Documentary? - 11/24/2007 3:58:31 PM   
Sarge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


I think that could be quite reasonably interpreted as meaning "our" as in "American", let's try to be a bit less touchy.

Regards,

- Erik



Touchy ?

One minute KG want-a-be is telling vets to go apologize to the fallen families along with his enlightenment on patriotism.
Then the next thread the bipolar want-a-be is posting up pic of USMC deep frying Japs ?




I agree with Doggie, if want-a-be is going to vomit on “real” vets every chance he gets, there is a risk of offending.

He is a couple of KG gems
quote:


ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
Really? Tell the widows of the soldiers who died in that non-combat that complete BS.

I'll leave you to your delusions. I'm outta here.


quote:


ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
Patriotism and blind obedience to an evil or incompetent government aren't necessarily related. Some of you seem to be incapable of understanding the difference.



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RE: The Best WWII USMC Documentary? - 11/24/2007 4:16:56 PM   
MrBoats

 

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The combat cameramen get a hell of a lot of credit from me. I cannot imagine the volume of lead and steel in the air while the Tarawa footage was being shot. The cameramen were able to get incredible shots in the middle of it all. I wonder if they didn't feel a bit "protected" by the camera, as if the action was taking place somewhere else. I walked into a gunfight in NYC and thought I was watching a movie until the bullets started pinging the steel stairway next to me. I never moved so quickly in my life -- two flights of stairs upward in about two seconds.

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RE: The Best WWII USMC Documentary? - 11/24/2007 9:02:28 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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That was really something. Great effort, makes me respect those guys.

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RE: The Best WWII USMC Documentary? - 11/24/2007 9:02:41 PM   
KG Erwin


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MrBoats, do a Google search for Norman Hatch. He was the cameraman who captured that rare footage of Japanese soldiers & Marines in the same frame. It was an instance where he just happened to turn his camera around at exactly the right moment.

Sgt Hatch also took the footage of Bonnyman's attack. Here he is (photo from "Tarawa On The Web"):




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 11/24/2007 9:06:58 PM >

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RE: The Best WWII USMC Documentary? - 11/25/2007 1:24:23 AM   
Doggie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I think that could be quite reasonably interpreted as meaning "our" as in "American", let's try to be a bit less touchy.


For the record, I don't believe Erwin is deliberately trying to be offensive. He is no doubt a genuine admirer of the United States Marines. He just doesn't get it.

Here's what I mean. I have some old clothes left over from my army days. I some times wear a field jacket which still has an old unit patch and my aircrewman's wings sewn on. Now if I had bought that jacket in surplus store, and it had an 82nd Airborne Division patch, jump wings, and captain's bars sewn on it, i would have cut all these things off, as I was never a member of the 82nd, never made a parachute jump, and was never a commissioned officer. Most other vets would do the same thing, if only to avoid the embarrassement of meeting some guy on the street who might notice the patch and ask you what which parachute infantry regiment you were assigned to. I would never refer to myself by a title I never earned, such as "colonel" or even "gunny".

When somebody asks about my patches, I don't have to humilate myself by admitting I never earned them or lie about places and things I've never done. A vet understands that. Erwin does not, despite repeated efforts to explain this to him.

It is offensive. What is so hard to understand about that?

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RE: The Best WWII USMC Documentary? - 11/25/2007 3:27:13 AM   
KG Erwin


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Doggie:

"Gunny" is a nickname given to me by another gaming buddy. Some of them refer to me as that. As for my veteran friends, they know better. A good friend of mine, who served both in the Army and as a USN corpsman serving with the Marines, calls me by my real name. Yeah, he served in Gulf War I, and by all definitions IS a combat veteran.

My buddies know the difference, and they understand that I hold no pretensions. My admiration for the USMC is real, and I'm glad that you acknowledge that.

I will continue writing about them, even though I never served in the Corps.


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RE: The Best WWII USMC Documentary? - 11/25/2007 9:15:54 PM   
Brigz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Doggie:

"Gunny" is a nickname given to me by another gaming buddy. Some of them refer to me as that. As for my veteran friends, they know better. A good friend of mine, who served both in the Army and as a USN corpsman serving with the Marines, calls me by my real name. Yeah, he served in Gulf War I, and by all definitions IS a combat veteran.

My buddies know the difference, and they understand that I hold no pretensions. My admiration for the USMC is real, and I'm glad that you acknowledge that.

I will continue writing about them, even though I never served in the Corps.

I'm not trying to come down on Erwin and I probably should keep my mouth shut about this, but I think Doggie's on the right track here. It's an intangible thing about the military and vets that is hard for some to understand. I've had a lot of wargame buddies over the years. Some were vets. But we always called each other by our real names and never called each other by military nicknames, except in one case. One of the guys I gamed with was always called "Doc" because he was a medic in Vietnam and he liked being called Doc. It was something he earned and he took pride in being called that. I never asked him about it, but occasionally he talked to me about Viet Nam and I think he kept that name and wore the title for the guys he looked after and especially the guys who didn't make it. It somehow gave a purpose to what he went through and I'm sure it helps him deal with the tragedy he witnessed. He was the one exception and we all understood.

I only bring this up because, it's my belief, that military nicknames, just like patches and honors, should only belong to those who earned them. They are sacred and the only way you have a right to them is if you take that oath in which you declare yourself ready to sacrifice your life. If others want to use military nicknames, then that's their business, but I would never do it.

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