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Weather effects on combat - 11/6/2007 6:32:43 PM   
macgregor


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Am I wrong? But as I re-read the manual I find no data relating to how weather affects combat. It's mentioned that it does,but never fully articulated. Is this a discrepancy? I don't see weather affecting combat at all. My Germans in Russia are facing 80% shock. The snow may be all that's protecting them.
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RE: Weather effects on combat - 11/6/2007 6:35:25 PM   
golden delicious


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Mud and snow affect movement speeds, cold and hot weather affect losses from pestilence effects (but if pestilence is zero they have no affect), whilst hot weather also makes mud dry up faster (hot, wet environments tend to equal hot, dry environments in TOAW). Clouds reduce the effectiveness of most aircraft.

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RE: Weather effects on combat - 11/6/2007 6:57:44 PM   
macgregor


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Thanks GD. Don't you think that adverse weather should affect the combat itself? Breaking out the WiF manual, weather can decrease combat effectiveness by 2 odds columns(making a 4:1 attack into a 2:1). Yet according to TOAW, there's no effect at all. I think this is a mistake that should be addressed.

< Message edited by macgregor -- 11/6/2007 6:58:31 PM >

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RE: Weather effects on combat - 11/6/2007 11:15:35 PM   
Karri

 

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I never check weather in TOAW. I wouldn't even if it would make a difference...so the first problem would be making it a lot easier to see what efect it would have.

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RE: Weather effects on combat - 11/7/2007 1:40:56 AM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: macgregor

Thanks GD. Don't you think that adverse weather should affect the combat itself? Breaking out the WiF manual, weather can decrease combat effectiveness by 2 odds columns(making a 4:1 attack into a 2:1). Yet according to TOAW, there's no effect at all. I think this is a mistake that should be addressed.


Isn't World in Flames basically a strategic game? Reduced mobility at the tactical level- like you get in TOAW- translates to reduced offensive power at the operational and strategic levels. Then there's the question of the effectiveness of airpower.

Taking the reverse angle, whilst mud may make it more difficult for an attack on the tactical level, a TOAW "defence" is generally assumed to also include counterattack and movement of reserves within the hex.

I'm not saying that there's no possibility for change here, but I think the current model a) doesn't miss any huge impact of weather at the level of the single hex and b) reflects well the impact of heavy mud or snow at an operational scale.

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RE: Weather effects on combat - 11/7/2007 3:22:59 AM   
wolflars

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: macgregor

Thanks GD. Don't you think that adverse weather should affect the combat itself? Breaking out the WiF manual, weather can decrease combat effectiveness by 2 odds columns(making a 4:1 attack into a 2:1). Yet according to TOAW, there's no effect at all. I think this is a mistake that should be addressed.



are not the effects GD mentioned enough?

quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

Mud and snow affect movement speeds, cold and hot weather affect losses from pestilence effects (but if pestilence is zero they have no affect), whilst hot weather also makes mud dry up faster (hot, wet environments tend to equal hot, dry environments in TOAW). Clouds reduce the effectiveness of most aircraft.


Affected movement and reduced effectiveness of aircraft...and of course the rarely used pestilence feature can seriously hamper a player's campaign. The only thing I wish TOAW weather could do was appear more concentrated in areas rather than as so random and spread out. It is hard to justify clouds thick enough to hide units but 5km away there are perfectly clear skies...

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RE: Weather effects on combat - 11/7/2007 4:53:58 AM   
vahauser


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wolflars,

I disagree about the weather patterns.  Since each turn can be up to a week long, then having a randomly spread-out weather pattern of clouds and clear more accurately portrays the "average" weather in a hex for that turn.

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RE: Weather effects on combat - 11/7/2007 5:56:48 AM   
macgregor


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I just think that attacking in bad weather should have some penalty attached. Is this addressed by the movement penalty? I don't really think so, as that has more to do with operational movement. I think there should be a further penalty as tactical movement is more difficult, leaving the attacker exposed longer to enemy fire.

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RE: Weather effects on combat - 11/7/2007 8:51:21 AM   
wolflars

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser

wolflars,

I disagree about the weather patterns. Since each turn can be up to a week long, then having a randomly spread-out weather pattern of clouds and clear more accurately portrays the "average" weather in a hex for that turn.



ahhh, good point, I hadn't looked at it that way....

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RE: Weather effects on combat - 11/7/2007 9:01:27 AM   
Veers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wolflars


quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser

wolflars,

I disagree about the weather patterns. Since each turn can be up to a week long, then having a randomly spread-out weather pattern of clouds and clear more accurately portrays the "average" weather in a hex for that turn.



ahhh, good point, I hadn't looked at it that way....

Hmmm...thought weather had been "fixed" in the last patch to concentrate more...?

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RE: Weather effects on combat - 11/7/2007 9:11:09 AM   
wolflars

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: macgregor

I just think that attacking in bad weather should have some penalty attached. Is this addressed by the movement penalty? I don't really think so, as that has more to do with operational movement. I think there should be a further penalty as tactical movement is more difficult, leaving the attacker exposed longer to enemy fire.



So, its an issue of scale then?

At a purely tactical level, weather might seem to have greater impact...but also consider this: what some consider to be horrible weather can sometimes be a blessing in disguise. God loves the infantry when it comes to weather. He is kind enough to give them the worst of it, which, more often than not (mud aside), actually gives them an edge in the attack, at least at a purely tactical level. But, for others, it is a disadvantage. Hard to create a system that covers all contingencies.

I guess my point is, bad weather isn't always bad for the attack. We often appreciated the worst weather as our biggest ally in the attack (with the possible exception of mud).

< Message edited by wolflars -- 11/7/2007 9:13:32 AM >

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RE: Weather effects on combat - 11/7/2007 9:13:53 AM   
wolflars

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Veers


quote:

ORIGINAL: wolflars


quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser

wolflars,

I disagree about the weather patterns. Since each turn can be up to a week long, then having a randomly spread-out weather pattern of clouds and clear more accurately portrays the "average" weather in a hex for that turn.



ahhh, good point, I hadn't looked at it that way....

Hmmm...thought weather had been "fixed" in the last patch to concentrate more...?


you know what, I think it was........

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RE: Weather effects on combat - 11/7/2007 1:41:59 PM   
Telumar


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There is an effect of local (single hex) weather on Anti-Armour/Armour combat shown in the manual in appendixes, calculations, notes on combat resoultion An excerpt:

quote:

Open vision locations have no precipitation and no terrain other than open, arid, roads, rivers, rocky, escarpments, canals, or sandy. Restricted vision locations have heavy precipitation, heavy cultivated, urban or urban ruin, or forest terrain.


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RE: Weather effects on combat - 11/7/2007 4:16:20 PM   
a white rabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wolflars


quote:

ORIGINAL: Veers


quote:

ORIGINAL: wolflars


quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser

wolflars,

I disagree about the weather patterns. Since each turn can be up to a week long, then having a randomly spread-out weather pattern of clouds and clear more accurately portrays the "average" weather in a hex for that turn.



ahhh, good point, I hadn't looked at it that way....

Hmmm...thought weather had been "fixed" in the last patch to concentrate more...?


you know what, I think it was........


..mmm, and nicely...

..now if it would just move according to prevailing winds..


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RE: Weather effects on combat - 11/8/2007 4:59:38 PM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wolflars

I guess my point is, bad weather isn't always bad for the attack. We often appreciated the worst weather as our biggest ally in the attack (with the possible exception of mud).


Low visibility certainly aids the attacker. Additionally, defenders will be less careful in bad weather, if it allows them to stay under cover.

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Post #: 15
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