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Please return to hex-based games

 
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Please return to hex-based games - 11/4/2007 7:03:14 PM   
m10bob


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Call me a traditional wargamer if you will. I prefer the good ol'fashioned hex based wargames and hope more game designers will remember the elementary aspects of why hexes can be used as a good measuring device of movement and range factor limitations .
Modern wargames evolved into the now familiar boardgames and surely many of us were weaned on the hex-based system.
Lately so many of the games released are based on "zone" capturing/defending/controlling more reminiscent of a childs game of RISK, than a serious and detailed wargame.
Nothing against RISK, heck, my squad played it in the army after hours, (and Sgt Losey's wife kept us well supplied in chips and beer), but for detail, nothing to me will replace the basic six-sided hex.......

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RE: Please return to hex-based games - 11/4/2007 7:08:44 PM   
junk2drive


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Since there have been a few hex games released lately, what you really mean is less rock, paper, scissors games and where is the new Steel Panthers?


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RE: Please return to hex-based games - 11/4/2007 8:50:46 PM   
ravinhood


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I actually don't mind squares or really even provinces what I don't care for is this real time or pausible real time some have gone to. Keep us in turn based and leave the real time stuff for the kids. I also like instant action of the battle and not some end turn readapage type combat as in the Ageod games.

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RE: Please return to hex-based games - 11/4/2007 9:30:11 PM   
KG Erwin


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I don't have an issue with the RISK-style games like Medieval: Total War. I play an interesting mod of that, called XL, which introduces new playable factions and changes many features. I don't play out the tactical battles -- I focus upon the strategic/economic/diplomatic aspect.

Games like these have their place, and a variety of formats/styles is good.

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RE: Please return to hex-based games - 11/8/2007 4:28:48 AM   
Skeleton


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I could not agree more. I can and do play province based games, some I really enjoy. But it is almost in spite of the fact that they are province based games that I enjoy them. There is not one that I don't think, "if only it had hexes, it would be perfect". I prefer turns as well. Imagine any of Paradox's games without the bugs and with hexes and turns. How much better would Hearts of Iron be? I could not play it for more then two months (each of it incarnations) before I just got tired of the vagueness of territories and the real time thing. I think this is why so many of us enjoy what Matrix does. TOAW, WiTP, GoA and soon (I hope) WiF. All hexes, all turn based, all classics or soon to be classics.

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RE: Please return to hex-based games - 11/8/2007 4:54:29 AM   
Titanwarrior89


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I agree with you, even though I still play and enjoy alot EU(two and three). I think the province's work better in EU than hexes would. It gives a better feel to the game. But I do wish it was turn based. My two favorite wargames of all time are: Witp and The EU series. Bringing up 3rd and 4th is: Steel Panthers Generals and combat mission. As you can see, for me its a mix. But I do, I do like turn base much better.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcus the leper

I could not agree more. I can and do play province based games, some I really enjoy. But it is almost in spite of the fact that they are province based games that I enjoy them. There is not one that I don't think, "if only it had hexes, it would be perfect". I prefer turns as well. Imagine any of Paradox's games without the bugs and with hexes and turns. How much better would Hearts of Iron be? I could not play it for more then two months (each of it incarnations) before I just got tired of the vagueness of territories and the real time thing. I think this is why so many of us enjoy what Matrix does. TOAW, WiTP, GoA and soon (I hope) WiF. All hexes, all turn based, all classics or soon to be classics.



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RE: Please return to hex-based games - 11/8/2007 2:14:23 PM   
HansBolter


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Ultra Grog hex board gamer here with over 34 years of wargaming experience.

While I still enjoy good hex based games I have had an epiphany in the discovery of the Airborne Assault game engine.

Literally NOTHING compares.

I still play face to face hex board games every every Thursday night (tonight in fact) and have a plethora of computer hex based games.

However, the bulk of my gaming time now goes to the game engine with the most compelling appeal.....Beta testing Battles from the Bulge.

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RE: Please return to hex-based games - 11/8/2007 4:34:28 PM   
Panzeh

 

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I don't mind the zone-based game as long as the zones are designed with the game in mind.  While it's a board game, I really like how Bonaparte at Marengo handles zones and it does this in a way that hexes can't really replicate that well.

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RE: Please return to hex-based games - 11/8/2007 4:53:30 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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I still play and enjoy hex-based boardgames.

Playing that "style" of game on a computer gives me eyestrain and does very, very little to harness the power of my PC.

I don't enjoy playing AI opponents; I greatly prefer FTF or TCP/IP gameplay with a human.

I quit buying hex-based computer games when I realized that I had ALL of the Talonsoft games, but had never played more than a scenario or two of any one of them.

Some of those jewel-cases have never been opened.

If a developer/publisher wants my money, they're gonna have to offer me something different.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)


< Message edited by Prince of Eckmühl -- 11/8/2007 4:54:27 PM >


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RE: Please return to hex-based games - 11/8/2007 5:20:40 PM   
Hanal

 

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This was the major debate when SC2 came out with tiles instead of hexes. I must admit that I was not happy with the decision but once I got into it, I found that the game was just as enjoyable no matter the grid layout. I will agree with other posters however that real-time and pseudo-turn based pausable time games are not my pint of ale....

< Message edited by J P Falcon -- 11/8/2007 5:21:36 PM >

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RE: Please return to hex-based games - 11/8/2007 5:40:24 PM   
cdbeck


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Not to be mean... but this is an odd post, considering the recent releases...

Advanced Tactics = Hex based
Guns of August = Hex based
Commander: Europe at War = Hex Based
John Tiller's Campaign Series = Hex Based

So, how can they RETURN to hex based games, when they are already producing MANY excellent hex-based games already.

Now, to the OP, I agree with RH and KG Erwin. Zone-based games have their place and can be much more fun that hex-based games. Sure, if you want lower level, more detailed and micromanaged operations, then hex based is the way to go. But if you want grand strategy, with diplomacy, research, economy, and political simulation, then zone-based can be very helpful to take the level of perspective higher. There are exceptions, GoA, AT and C:EaW are all hex based grand strategy, so it can be done effectively both ways. Different types of games, different types of play.

I do get a little frustrated with people saying "Stick with one type of game mechanic/map time/RTS vs TBS and only make those types of games!" This is short-sighted, a bit selfish, and close-minded. Why not have a wide variety of game-types and game mechanics? Would you not get bored if literally every game was a TOAW clone? Or even more to the point, since TOAW can be so open-ended, perhaps they should just make scenario packs for TOAW and forget new games? I'm all for variety. Nothing beats learning a new style and getting a new gaming experience.

SoM


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RE: Please return to hex-based games - 11/8/2007 7:36:55 PM   
Widell


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Well said! Rather than discussing if a game is hex based or not, it's the qualities of the game that will make it a classic. True, many classics are hex based, but that is most likely a heritage from the board gaming days.

To be honest, the hex is only a way to capture, and illustrate, meta data on a location at the level where the game was designed to operate. Instead of hex, you can choose region, square, pixel, coordinates or whatever else can be stored in the database of choice and cross referenced with whatever is in, or flows through, the location.

I also believe that turn based is the way to build truly good multiplayer games, at least when we talk about military games at the scales we discuss here = not FPS if you get my point. On the other hand there are exceptions to that as well with HTTR, COTA and the coming BFTB has prooven. These provide really good TCP/IP games as does Harpoon, but it really isn't fair to compared to TOAW, WitP or ACW for example. Completely different moods and mindsets required, but all have earned their rights to be classics, or at least aspiring classics.

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RE: Please return to hex-based games - 11/10/2007 3:56:31 AM   
pzgndr

 

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quote:

This was the major debate when SC2 came out with tiles instead of hexes. I must admit that I was not happy with the decision but once I got into it, I found that the game was just as enjoyable no matter the grid layout. I will agree with other posters however that real-time and pseudo-turn based pausable time games are not my pint of ale....


Roger that. Recent Zogby poll shows 50% of wargamers prefer hexes with north-south grain, 50% prefer hexes with east-west grain, and the other 50% prefer tiles.

(in reply to m10bob)
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RE: Please return to hex-based games - 11/10/2007 5:22:31 AM   
Zap


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

quote:

This was the major debate when SC2 came out with tiles instead of hexes. I must admit that I was not happy with the decision but once I got into it, I found that the game was just as enjoyable no matter the grid layout. I will agree with other posters however that real-time and pseudo-turn based pausable time games are not my pint of ale....


Roger that. Recent Zogby poll shows 50% of wargamers prefer hexes with north-south grain, 50% prefer hexes with east-west grain, and the other 50% prefer tiles.



This is a joke wright? I see the smiley face. A Zogby pole shiish!


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RE: Please return to hex-based games - 11/10/2007 5:39:18 AM   
ravinhood


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I think I would wet my breeches if we could play Mad Minutes Manassas game multiplayer. With up to each player controlling a division man that would put ole Sid's Civiwar games to bed. I wonder if they will include some type of multiplayer in their next game? As much as I like hexes and turn based that is one game I could surely get into real time online if one could get enough players to participate in an OPEN war. <sigh>

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