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The USS Liberty tragedy - 10/6/2007 11:03:26 PM   
TAIL GUNNER

 

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I was listening to the radio program "The National Defense" early this morning and couldn't believe what I was hearing....

They were interviewing a survivor of the USS Liberty; an unarmed spy-ship which was blatantly attacked by Israeli air and surface forces in 1967.

The sad thing is the US government has never ordered a full investigation and has tried to cover-up the story for the last 40 years....

check it out:

USS Liberty

< Message edited by Juggalo -- 10/6/2007 11:06:22 PM >


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RE: The USS Liberty tragedy - 10/6/2007 11:19:03 PM   
rogueusmc


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They haven't done a very good job of covering it up...I've heard the sabre rattling about that for years...

Edit...

The families in a situation like this should be given benifits .... This is the rub for me.

As for the men and women involved with the ship knew the risks when they accepted the assignment. They were in someone else's playground and got caught...

< Message edited by rogueusmc -- 10/6/2007 11:23:46 PM >


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RE: The USS Liberty tragedy - 10/7/2007 2:29:27 AM   
wworld7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Juggalo

I was listening to the radio program "The National Defense" early this morning and couldn't believe what I was hearing....

They were interviewing a survivor of the USS Liberty; an unarmed spy-ship which was blatantly attacked by Israeli air and surface forces in 1967.

The sad thing is the US government has never ordered a full investigation and has tried to cover-up the story for the last 40 years....

check it out:

USS Liberty


A full investigation open to the public was never done, at least not one that I am aware of. But this is not uncommon in a war event. Why? Partially because often the truth is ugly and leaders do not want this information passed down, for fear of having to accept any share of the responsibilty. And with the Liberty, there was much blame to share for the attack.

I agree with rogueusmc, the familes should have been provided for BETTER. But that would just tidy it up better. It really never should have happened. And with improvements in communications and inteligence I don't think a like event will happen again, well at least I hope not.

< Message edited by flipperwasirish -- 10/7/2007 4:48:26 AM >


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RE: The USS Liberty tragedy - 10/7/2007 2:54:15 AM   
Gil R.


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Every well-researched analysis I've ever heard or read makes it pretty clear that this was an accident, and not some deliberate attack by the Israelis. So I don't buy the theory of a cover-up. If a full investigation wasn't ordered by LBJ that was probably because of a desire to keep secret intelligence collection methods and whatnot.

Heck, just two weeks ago I was watching C-SPAN as two Russian historians (now Israeli citizens) who were discussing the nuclear angle of the Six-Day War were asked about the "Liberty," and pointed out that the ship might have been mistaken for a Soviet ship in the area that was believed to be helping the Egyptians. I've heard/read plenty of other theories, each more plausible than the theory that Israel meant to take out the "Liberty."

And by the way, I don't think surface forces were in any way involved in the attack. It was all by air, as I recall.

< Message edited by Gil R. -- 10/7/2007 2:57:37 AM >

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RE: The USS Liberty tragedy - 10/7/2007 4:33:26 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

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According to Wiki torpedo boats attacked 20 minutes after hte aircraft - but possibly because hte Liberty fired on them first with machineguns.  Liberty was hit by 1 torpedo which caused most of the casualties suffered.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

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RE: The USS Liberty tragedy - 10/7/2007 4:54:03 AM   
wworld7


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Just my opinion, but Wiki is a poor source for "accurate" information.

There are books out that cover the events of the Arab/Isr wars much better, including the Liberty bombing. If I have time later I'll look and see what I have in my library on this subject.



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RE: The USS Liberty tragedy - 10/7/2007 5:02:21 AM   
TAIL GUNNER

 

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"The attack was preceded by more than six hours of intense low-level surveillance by Israeli photo-reconnaissance aircraft, which buzzed the intelligence ship thirteen times, sometimes flying as low as 200 feet directly overhead. The reconnaissance pilots were heard by intercept operators in Germany and by American airborne intercept operators reporting to their headquarters that they could see an American flag and men sunbathing on deck."

The guy the hosts of National Defense were interviewing was Jim Ennes, whose primary duty on the USS Liberty was making sure the American flag was always clearly visible and properly unfurled.

"The carefully orchestrated assault that followed was initiated by high-performance jet aircraft, was followed up by slower and more maneuverable jets carrying napalm, and was finally turned over to lethal torpedo boats which fired five torpedoes. Four missed. The one torpedo that hit the ship blasted a forty-foot hole in the ship's side."

Surface forces in the form of torpedo boats were present.

"The attack lasted more than two hours -- killing 34 Americans and wounding 174 others -- and inflicted 821 rocket and machine-gun holes. And when the Liberty stubbornly remained afloat despite her damage, Israeli forces machine-gunned her life rafts and sent troop-carrying helicopters in to finish the job. US Air Force intercept operators heard Israeli jet being vectored to "the American ship" which they were ordered to sink quickly. Those who have seen these transcripts insist that they leave no doubt that the Israelis knew they were attacking an American ship."

And from what I gathered during the interview, this last part about the aircraft carriers has just been pieced together from recently declassified documents: (though from the interview I remember a discussion of planes from both carriers Sara and America were dispatched and then immediately recalled).

"Before USS Liberty arrived in the area, U.S. Sixth Fleet Commander Admiral William Martin promised to provide air support within ten minutes if an emergency arose. Yet when the ship did come under attack, the White House blocked any air rescue for more than 90 minutes. Officers on the bridge of the aircraft carrier Saratoga heard Liberty's radio operators calling for help while bombs burst in the background, but were forbidden to help. When Navy jet aircraft were finally authorized to come to the ship's aid, the Israeli government suddenly ended the attack and withdrew, claiming that they had mistaken the ship for an Egyptian horse transport named El Quseir. Only then did the identity of the assailants become known."

And this sums it up:

"The attack on the USS Liberty remains the only major maritime incident in all US history that has not been publicly investigated by the United States Congress."

< Message edited by Juggalo -- 10/7/2007 5:04:24 AM >


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RE: The USS Liberty tragedy - 10/7/2007 7:01:26 AM   
Mickey

 

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Chicago trib just did a story on this.  Was a good read.

Bryce Lockwood, Marine staff sergeant, Russian-language expert, recipient of the Silver Star for heroism, ordained Baptist minister, is shouting into the phone.

"I'm angry! I'm seething with anger! Forty years, and I'm seething with anger!"

Lockwood was aboard the USS Liberty, a super-secret spy ship on station in the eastern Mediterranean, when four Israeli fighter jets flew out of the afternoon sun to strafe and bomb the virtually defenseless vessel on June 8, 1967, the fourth day of what would become known as the Six-Day War.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/newspaper/printedition/tuesday/chi-liberty_tuesoct02,0,1050179.story

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RE: The USS Liberty tragedy - 10/7/2007 8:35:38 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

Just my opinion, but Wiki is a poor source for "accurate" information.


Wiki is exactly what it is - the accuracy of any given article can be checked against references where given, or against your knowledge, or against other info you can find.

Writing it off simply because its Wiki is just as stupid as accepting it just because its wiki - both are indefensible without further information.

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RE: The USS Liberty tragedy - 10/7/2007 1:24:03 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mickey
Chicago trib just did a story on this.  Was a good read.


Seems like there are definitely two sides to this one and a lot of unanswered questions. I agree that an investigation should take place. It seems obvious that it was brushed over because of what was going on at the time, but an investigation should have happened after the Six-Day War. On the one hand, I can't imagine what reason Israel would have had to deliberately attack a US ship - the most likely explanation seems that the order to attack came from a somewhat broken command chain, with some portions aware of the ship's identity and others not.

Regards,

- Erik


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RE: The USS Liberty tragedy - 10/7/2007 1:25:20 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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With all that said, I'd guess this is inevitably going to become more political if I let this thread go, so I'm locking it up.

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