Lol what a load of rubbish Herston about Paradox games being historical hahahaha talk about incomprehensible hahahaha you win the cupie doll for that one. hahahahahahah You Paradox fanbois never quit though do you? hahaha I found an old post during the Victoria days of Paradox burning. Let me remind you of those days ;)
But there were so many obvious flaws in Vic one main being how unhistorically accurate it was. When I had to un-install and re-install to get the game to save, ( a beta tester solution btw) I knew there would be trouble.
The concept is nice. One gets tired of the almost endless WW2 type games after awhile. I like games that cover otherwise neglected areas of history.
But the publish early and patch often at this stage of the company's developement is, to me at least, no longer acceptable. If it meant I payed a little more for ver 1.0 to be where 1.03 puts it, so be it.
Here is how someone else thinks about it. From the Paradox boards.
A friend wrote the following. She could not post it as her computer went down. She wrote it after reading threads at another site, the wargamer. Those threads she alludes to were lost when they got hacked.
I cleaned it up a bit.
" I have been considering a Paradox game for some time now. I have been perusing the two threads on this board, and the Paradox forums. Gentlemen, I am convinced.
I read these posts, and I am appalled. The indignation, the vituperation, the bile. Directed not at the companies responsable for releasing games in such a state that they need patches within a week or two after release. Heavens no.
It is directed at those who have the major brass to complain about obvious flaws. Or how badly tested said games are. Or those who would rather wait and get a far more complete game cheaper than paying full price for an unfinished one. Or dare I say it, a beta version.
You know those people. They are called *consumers*. AKA *paying customers* You know, the ones who buy what these companies sell. The ones that a company needs to stay around. If a company like Paradox fails, it, and you, have only yourselves to blame.
All through these threads, I never came across anything that I, as a consumer, would make me want to support these games.
Instead of solutions, all those who love companies like Paradox can do is attack. They leave the distinct impression that you *must* buy this game. Call a game unfinished, or flawed, and they act as if their baby was kidnapped. Beta tester get personally offended if you catch them on missing the obvious. No one has stood up and said " I screwed up. "
For example: Ships of the Nelson era destroying a fleet of Jutland era battleships. All I ever saw was excuses for it. Excuses like " They were outnumbered. " No one stood up and said " Hey, we screwed up. we missed it. And we will fix it." Took two patches....
Suggest that it would be better if a game is delayed so it doesn't need a patch on release. What do you hear. " The company can't afford people like you. " Which is an ignorant statement.
Commit the ultimate sin, and state that you will buy the game when it drops in price.
They have no solution other than whine " The company will go out of business.." Or some such tripe. Or they go into pitbull mode against you. One would think that it would be more fruitful if they spent the energy on making it a product that you would want to buy.
Or you hear about how the company has to release a game unfinished because they can't afford to wait. Or how much a website cost. Or how small the company is.
Gentleman, as a consumer I don't care what the site cost. That is part of doing business.
If a company is in the position of publish or perish, then it is screwed up. Time to get new management, someone who knows business. I don't care how small the staff is. It is a problem that is not for me to fix.
Publishing games too early is bad business. To pretend otherwise is to delude yourselves.
Why is this the only industry where it is tolerated? You would not buy a twelve speed bike if you it had six gears. Or a pen and pencil set sans pen.
I bought an expensive TV set awhile back. It was supposed to come with a chair. I knew it would be a week before said chair arrived. Ok, fine. After the week was up, I was informed the chair was no longer available. Fine. So I said I will take the value of the chair. They offered me $25.00, which is what the chair cost them. I wanted $100.00 which was the retail value of the chair.
Short version, the $3000 tv went back.
Paradox, your rabid fan boy club has convinced me that not buying any of your products is the way to go. I don't want the grief if I point out flaws. I don't want to hear excuses for how said flaws got past testing. Or grief for not willingly paying full price for a game that takes at least three patches to bring it where it should of been. ( According to a list I saw on these very boards. ). I don't want to hear about how your company will go broke, or how how many people work there.
And most of all I don't want to hear how I, or others, are supposed to support you.
I have Imperialism II. I will buy War! Age of Imperialism instead. No one who supports those games jumps down your throat when you find and state flaws. Or make nonsensical excuses. ( see above ). And neither one got patched twice in only two months. "
Thank you gentleman. You have made my choice easy. "
Some made sport of the TV. They failed to realise that because the store failed to deliver the chair or the money so she could buy the chair, they lost a $3,000 sale.
The hard core fans will buy anything PE puts out. And that is fine. I know people who only buy games done by their favorite designer.
But PE will not grow if they continue on this path. And having people download patch after patch after patch is not the way to expand a customer base.
I think Johan himself said something like "People think many patches=broken." I think he is more right than he knew.
I would really like to see a game on the Roman Empire. At least from Agustus to Romulus Agustulus. PE is probably the only company that would attempt a game of that scope. But, given its history, it would also take 3-5 patches before it could be considered finished.
I applaud this gal for she certainly knows her Paradox publisher and its fanbois. It's pretty obvious though to see really, but, when you turn your blind eyes to facts you just can't see the truth about Paradox games I guess. Hardly historical, though they do fall into historical "WHATIF" time frames. That's the only historical atmosphere they will present. They put you into the time period with colorful units, throw some abstract diplomacy and economy at you and off you go into 'imagination land" of if ony I were king. But, the history ends the moment you set out and start conquering the lands and before you know it you've conqured the ENTIRE MAP in a supposedly historical game?? hahahaha
< Message edited by ravinhood -- 10/2/2007 12:41:01 AM >