Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Effectiveness of FlaK

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Effectiveness of FlaK Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Effectiveness of FlaK - 8/22/2000 12:33:00 AM   
Jaeger

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Tallahassee, FL USA
Status: offline
After 40-some battles in the Long Campaign as the Germans, I am forced (1945) to buy from four to eight platoons of FlaK to stay alive against US bombing. My question is how is the effectiveness of FlaK calculated? By flak type, type of target, etc?? I buy the 37 mm Flak43. It seems that if I count the number of hits, based on the sound of the FlaK hitting the plane, it takes about four to bring that plane, fighter or bomber, down. Even if I get a hit from my 88, it still takes about 4 hits. I did not find anything on this in the manual. Thanks. George

_____________________________

Post #: 1
- 8/22/2000 12:59:00 AM   
illo

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 7/23/2000
Status: offline
If 88mm flak hits plane you can ask what is left of it. Even near misses were extremely dangerous to b17s

_____________________________


(in reply to Jaeger)
Post #: 2
- 8/22/2000 3:56:00 AM   
Arralen


Posts: 790
Joined: 5/21/2000
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by illo: If 88mm flak hits plane you can ask what is left of it. Even near misses were extremely dangerous to b17s
But not in the game - it's not only the hit/no hit issue .. it's correct that large caliber AA guns don't bring down planes with one hit. Saw this with the Japanese 75mm (the "Japs 88" ) .. scored several hits for 16 points (each time exactly this amount!!) on some Russian SB-2, but these planes have 20 hit points so I was unable to take down any !! How is the damage from AA hits calculated? I wonder how the 75mm AA could to 16 points damage only ?? On the other hand, I need them mostly agaist tanks ... best gun the Japs have Arralen

_____________________________


(in reply to Jaeger)
Post #: 3
- 8/24/2000 1:14:00 AM   
Owl

 

Posts: 179
Joined: 8/4/2000
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
I am beginning to form the opinion that points spent on flak would be better spent on more troops/tanks/etc. The flak seems to be nearly worthless in most cases. As a recent example in the German campaign in late 1942 I have 5 88's, 4 20mm quads, and a mobile quad on a halftrack. No planes were shot down or damaged to my knowledge and there were numerous attacks. This seems to be about normal. Having no experience with flak I can't say whether this is realistic or not but it seems flak should be a bit better. Does anyone see any benifit in buying flak at all? For all the points in this instance I spent all on flak I could have gotten a several Tigers, lots more troops, other good stuff. ------------------ (.) (.) ...V... [This message has been edited by Owl (edited August 23, 2000).]

_____________________________

(.) (.)

...V...

(in reply to Jaeger)
Post #: 4
- 8/24/2000 2:37:00 AM   
cjpaul

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 8/7/2000
From: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Status: offline
I've been playing a German campaign solely versus the Russians. If I have to defend or delay, I buy 4 pairs of 20mm quads. The trick I've found is to keep them very close to the tanks, especially Königtigers. That way the airplanes have to fly close to them to bomb the tanks. Then the hit percentage for the aa guns is higher and the planes get hit. Doing this, I have shot down 10 planes in 3 years and more importantly the planes have been suppressed so that their hit probability goes down. I have yet to lose a tank to a plane.

_____________________________


(in reply to Jaeger)
Post #: 5
- 8/24/2000 10:22:00 AM   
kao16

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 4/10/2000
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline
I like to use US M16's for AA defence, mainly because they have a useful performance against infantry, their performance against aircraft hasn't been as good (ever tried to shoot down Il-2 Stormoviks with quad 50) ,

_____________________________


(in reply to Jaeger)
Post #: 6
- 8/24/2000 4:55:00 PM   
victorhauser

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 5/29/2000
From: austin, texas
Status: offline
When playing the Germans in a long campaign, I like to have about a dozen 88s in my core (they are too expensive to start, but I upgrade 37mm AT guns to 88s as soon as I can). I also try to give each 88 at least 5 kills per game (or more) to ensure a very rapid experience gain between battles. I give them absolute kill priority over all my other units during the early battles of the campaign. I want my 88s to be elite (over experience 100) by the 6th battle of the campaign. A dozen elite 88s with good fields of fire will shoot down a LOT of enemy planes, I assure you. [This message has been edited by victorhauser (edited August 24, 2000).]

_____________________________

VAH

(in reply to Jaeger)
Post #: 7
- 8/25/2000 11:16:00 PM   
Owl

 

Posts: 179
Joined: 8/4/2000
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
A dozen 88's?!? Yep, I'd bet those would be effective. I am trying however to keep things at least a bit realistic as far as numbers of particular types of units in my core force. While I'd bet there were times where they had a concentration of 88's it was probably not the norm. Another problem is that the 88's should be set at game start for AA or ground fire mode, the ones in the game are just too versitile (unrealistic, but fun if they're on my side). In "real" life the 88's couldn't go from AA to ground mode very fast. 3rd problem, 88's were long range, high altitude flak. They were not effective or even used to my knowledge to fire at dive bombing/strafing aircraft - they couldn't track fast enough. That's why there IS 20, 37, 40 mm AA. Has anyone had success with a more realistic number of flak units? Maybe it's tactics needed not numbers of flak? Hmm, in re-reading this it sounds a bit like I'm flaming Victorhauser, not intentional! if a dozen 88's is what it takes then more power to him. In my case I just like a more true to life mix. ------------------ (.) (.) ...V...

_____________________________

(.) (.)

...V...

(in reply to Jaeger)
Post #: 8
- 8/25/2000 11:42:00 PM   
Hauptmann6

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 5/11/2000
From: Portage, MI
Status: offline
I do fairly well with a few Flack Tracks, and 6(total) quad 20s or 37s, I keep the tracks up front and the towed to the rear and I hit probably 50-60% of the AC that fly over, and kill 10-20% I think it is all in the flack tacticts that you use. I place the guns on hill often, and ALWAYS in the open. HTH Haupt

_____________________________


(in reply to Jaeger)
Post #: 9
- 8/26/2000 6:25:00 AM   
victorhauser

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 5/29/2000
From: austin, texas
Status: offline
To Owl: I was not offended and did not feel flamed by your post. However, my core force (based on 1800 points to start) for Germans in 1939 has at least 145 units in it. So a dozen 88s (an "historical" TO/E for a heavy flak battalion) in a core numbering 145+ units is not so terribly out of line. Also, since my core is presumably the premier (and most heavily engaged) Kampfgruppe in the entire Wehrmacht (why else would I be playing the campaign?), then I don't feel I'm "abusing" reality too much. (I refer you to Rommel's use of 88s in North Africa.) Besides, I also use plenty of 20mm and 37mm flak, too, (but I count on my 88s doing most of the AA damage). As to the claim that 88s had a difficult time switching between roles I agree. However, I've found that early in the campaign my 88s spend most of their time as AT platforms and later in the campaign (after I've upgraded to heavier AFVs and enemy airpower escalates) they are usually in the rear as AA platforms. So once again I don't see too much "hypocrisy" in keeping 88s as dual purpose weapons in SPWaW. I also agree that lighter AA platforms were more "nimble" when engaging enemy attack aircraft, but 88s could be and were used to good effect in that role provided the crews were good enough.

_____________________________

VAH

(in reply to Jaeger)
Post #: 10
- 8/26/2000 6:54:00 AM   
Tombstone

 

Posts: 764
Joined: 6/1/2000
From: Los Angeles, California
Status: offline
For AAA to be effective in spwaw you need them to be in the right place at the right time or have HIGH experience values. Since the right place at the right time, all the time isn't a reasonable aspiration Victorhauser's method is the only alternative for campaign play. For generated battles you have to make something look too good to not use airplanes on (like arty or something) and set up some kind of airplane ambush, hoping you can draw your enemy into using their planes on your terms..... Tomo

_____________________________


(in reply to Jaeger)
Post #: 11
- 8/29/2000 5:40:00 AM   
Venger

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 7/31/2000
From: Home of the 90mm M46, keeper of the Can O'Whoopass
Status: offline
Took a 4-pack of M15A1's in my campaign against the Russians from 1941-1949 as the U.S. Have upgraded some 37mm to 90mm AA. Last time I saw aircraft, a pair of Russian Yaks went to their spinning death. Very effective AA. Go figure. Venger

_____________________________


(in reply to Jaeger)
Post #: 12
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Effectiveness of FlaK Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.277